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  #41  
Old 10-12-2011, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Your last paragraph is interesting and thought provoking - hmmm BOSS experts? well ok at finding and reporting them perhaps. So what can a well equipped advanced amateur do to contribute further to SN science? Aside from finding them and doing light curves I don't know and perhaps others here have some ideas. Infact we could run this very question by the several professionals we have contact with to see what they think. I do wonder how faint amateurs can go with obtaining a spectra that may be useful as there are still SN fainter than mag 16 particularly in the South that don't get quick follow up.
I envy you guys because you can actually use your data to do Cosmology.
An interesting exercise is to find out if you can use your light curves to calculate the distance.
If this is possible being in contact with professionals might allow you compare the accuracy of your light curves to theirs on the basis of the calculated distance from the datasets.

As a starting point you might find this interesting.

http://users.westconnect.com.au/~sja...ance_scale.pdf

It's an introductory course on distances from a Cosmology perspective.

Regards

Steven
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  #42  
Old 10-12-2011, 10:07 AM
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Yes, thanks for your post Craig.
For all, Sky and Telescope have an article on page 19 of the October 2011 issue that provides more interesting thoughts on refining supernova models including hypernovae...a must read for followers of these posts. I am convinced that there is still plenty of work in this area, and BOSS can keep playing a part.
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  #43  
Old 10-12-2011, 04:43 PM
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Hi Peter and Greg;
Supernova research to me, represents more of a quest to understand and explore the extremes of pure physics. I guess this is somewhat debatable, but I have this niggling feeling that the recent LHC and neutrino particle physics exercises, might just throw a lot more emphasis back onto Super and Hypernova exploration.

Exoplanet research is driving the development of observational technologies, which is tremendously valuable to all of astronomy. Clearly more data and measurement precision will provide an unequalled opportunity for understanding the sheer diversity of planetary complexity (which I think, will also ultimately force quantified aspects of this into theoretical astrophysics ... which is pretty well absent, at present).

I also have a feeling that the present focus on exoplanetary discovery will reach a logical interim conclusion fairly quickly, when the public becomes less interested about the numbers of way-off remote planets, (which is already quite meaningless to me) ... and when they realise the improbability of exploring these worlds in their generation ... or the next, or the next .. (due to theoretical limitations .. not technological ones). I'll refrain from elaborating on my views about remote exo-life detection over vast distances ... I do have many, many sound reasons for my stand on this .. which we haven't gotten to, yet.

So overall, the pendulum of fashionable exploration, I think, may very well be on its way back, (for what its worth).

Good to see Steven's comments as well .. that presentation/tutorial is a beauty !

Cheers & Rgds
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  #44  
Old 11-12-2011, 10:55 AM
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Hi All,
What a great post by Craig very thought provoking.
When I started searching for Supernova my main goal was to try to be the first in the world to spot the light from one of these events and get it reported. The science side of things I thought would take care of itself with the pros doing their stuff after that. Since then my understanding even though still at its infancy has improved. This has changed the way we search and how we talk to the pros. This has got to the point that as Peter says they stop their current programmes to follow alot of our discoveries. Therefore as a team we have the respect of the pros. This is very important for both sides as one professional said to me funding is very tight now and they are looking for accurate and reliable amateurs to do some of the “grunt“work so they are able to do the science. We have been feeding the Chile observatories a regular supply of Supernova over the past year to follow up on as Giuliano said to me a few days ago about SN2011hs a type II SN“ we got a GMOS spectrum last night, just beautiful !!Very good fishing guys !”
I have had emails/meetings from people that I would never of dreamed of at the start of my search programme including Brian Schmidt, Alex Filippenko ,Dan Milisavljevic,Nidia Morell, Giuliano Pignata and may others who I contact on a regular basis they are leaders in their field. This certainly makes all the work worthwhile and goes to prove that alot more information is needed. That is why I can never understand why so many supernova discoveries go unclassified as previous said the sexiness has gone out of supernova which I think is sad. However I think it is on a rebound and bright Supernova like SN2011iv reminds people of the importance of such research.
What I am saying here is I think as amateurs all we can really do is continue to supply this information as best we can to the pros and hope they can get the information they need to revisit the current theories that’s what science is all about isn’t it? From time to time something unexpected will come up and that is great!
I went to a supernova conference in June and also met alot of the above people. Talking about the two type Ia theories-this still very hotly debated. But the impression I get while listening to them is that the white dwarf in a binary system is favoured more than the Double Degenerate (DD) model. I have since read some papers on this and I am not so sure anymore. I have posed the above question to some of the above mentioned professionals to get their updated point of view. I just really hope that the new bright SN helps with that.
Stu
BTW thanks to all for the good wishes etc it does realy help
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  #45  
Old 11-12-2011, 11:27 AM
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Now that we are heading away from Full Moon we may now get a chance to start observing the Supernova in NGC1404.
By the way there is another Bright Supernova in VIRGO

PSN J13085839-1531041 in NGC 4984 is now Mag 12.2 and rising.

NGC 4984 rises just after 01.00 so the galaxy should be at a reasonable hight about 02.30
So two mag 12 supernova in the sky is amazing.

See Here for information and images of of Supernova discoveries.


Cheers
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  #46  
Old 12-12-2011, 08:56 PM
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I observed the Supernova again tonight, must be now very close to Mag 12.
Observed in eyepieces from 6mm Radian,very bright,9mm Radian easily seen 13mm nagler ditto and 17mm Nagler also quite noticable.
All observations where done with sky glow from twilight and later the moon.
The Supernova should be easily seen in scopes from 8" with high mag upwards.
Cheers
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  #47  
Old 12-12-2011, 09:44 PM
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Thanks Ron.
Quote:
Originally Posted by astroron View Post
I observed the Supernova again tonight, must be now very close to Mag 12.
Observed in eyepieces from 6mm Radian,very bright,9mm Radian easily seen 13mm nagler ditto and 17mm Nagler also quite noticable.
All observations where done with sky glow from twilight and later the moon.
The Supernova should be easily seen in scopes from 8" with high mag upwards.
Cheers
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  #48  
Old 14-12-2011, 11:17 PM
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barx1963 (Malcolm)
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Finally able to have another go at the SN. About 10-30pm nabbed it with direct vision at 150x in the 10mm Ethos, very clear, appears to almost outshine the core of the galaxy.

Malcolm
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  #49  
Old 15-12-2011, 08:41 AM
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Here's a really great 5 minute read from the news this morning, about the findings of the recent Type 1a, SN 2011fe.

The early-time light curve observations actually resulted in being able to constrain the 'old-red-giants and; white-dwarfs-in-the-double-degenerate-system' models !

Closest Type Ia supernova in decades solves a cosmic mystery

Some inspirational words here
Quote:
"It is rare that you have eureka moments in science, but it happened four times on this supernova," says Andy Howell, coleader of PTF's SN Ia team: "The super-early discovery; the crazy first spectrum; when we figured out it had to be a white dwarf; and then, the Holy Grail, when we figured out details of the second star."

Howell adds, "We're like Captain Ahab except our white whale is a white dwarf. We're obsessed with proving they cause supernovae, but the evidence has been eluding us for decades." This time, he says, "We got our whale and we lived."
The paper will appear in the Dec 15 issue of Nature and sounds like a very interesting read.

Cheers
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  #50  
Old 15-12-2011, 06:59 PM
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I took some photometry images of SN2011iv on the 13th. According to my measurements it was at V mag 12.4.

For those following this SN visually, if you'd like to try your eye, you can see the Ref Mags of the comparison stars in the table.

-Ivan
Click image for larger version

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  #51  
Old 31-01-2012, 09:09 AM
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We have just received word from a researcher with the Hubble Space Telescope who took spectra of this SN. In a nutshell Stu got a very nice email from them noting that they have "incredible data" from this SN and "best data since SN1992A" in fact it goes on to note the data they got was much better than SN1992A and a paper will be published later this year. Alas no HST image, well not yet.
So there ya go how about that, a tin shed on a cow farm in Oxford NZ to the Hubble Space Telescope - amateur astronomers contributing in a big way to the science of this wonderful hobby!
Great find Stu!
Peter
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  #52  
Old 31-01-2012, 09:21 AM
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Well done Stu, great to see Amateur/Professional cooperation
Thanks Peter for the update
As you know the weather here has not been favourable to get any more observations of the Supernova
I suppose it is probably getting faint by now ?
Latest mag estimates is 13.7 so could possibly be visible in a 16" scope
Cheers
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  #53  
Old 31-01-2012, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM View Post
So there ya go how about that, a tin shed on a cow farm in Oxford NZ to the Hubble Space Telescope
Peter
That is way cool!

DT
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  #54  
Old 24-02-2012, 12:47 PM
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The accolades for Stu and his discovery of 2011iv just keep on coming from professional astronomers and researchers alike. It's not often amateurs get to see how their contribution can have an impact on science. So I thought the line below from an email received today from a prominent professional astronomer working in this field would be of interest to regular and noobie amateur astronomers here on IIS and perhaps provide encouragement as well.

"2011iv: it is a great target, probably one of the best observed Ia's ever"

Apparently it is still being followed very closely by many professionals, and research papers will be issued in the near future.

As I have said before you never know where this amazing hobby can take you.
PeterM.

Last edited by PeterM; 24-02-2012 at 02:55 PM.
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