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  #1  
Old 25-07-2011, 04:35 PM
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Zeroing in on the Higgs Boson

Are they getting closer to a discovery?

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/46636

Regards

Steven
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  #2  
Old 25-07-2011, 05:18 PM
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I read the comments under the article. Makes global warming look like a linear relationship picnic.

In the good old days you believed the texts and lecturers now the garbo has an opinion!


Bert
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  #3  
Old 25-07-2011, 05:42 PM
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Very interesting! Thanks for the link.
And by the way, those comments are very entertaining, and enlightening. There must be some serious homework behind some of those comments.
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  #4  
Old 25-07-2011, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avandonk View Post
I read the comments under the article. Makes global warming look like a linear relationship picnic.

In the good old days you believed the texts and lecturers now the garbo has an opinion!


Bert
Remember Bert we live in an age where having an opinion is much more important than making educated comments.

The one or two scam posts were more to the point.

Incidentally the press has gotten hold of the news and are describing the Higg's boson as all but discovered.

From the Independent.

Quote:
Scientists in the US announced they may have detected the elusive and potentially universe-changing Higgs boson particle yesterday, just two days after rivals in Switzerland signalled that they, too, have caught their first sight of it.
Regards

Steven
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  #5  
Old 25-07-2011, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
In the good old days you believed the texts and lecturers now the garbo has an opinion!
Welcome to the Internet, where anyone with a lot of time on their hands and access to Wikipedia can attempt to pass themselves off as a world expert on absolutely everything.
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  #6  
Old 25-07-2011, 11:37 PM
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Interesting findings, but like anything is science, something could come up to throw a spanner in the works. Best thing for them to do is be prepared for anything. If they find the Higgs as expected, great. If not, and something else turns up or their results for the Higgs turn out completely different, also great. Needs a lot more work done, yet.
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  #7  
Old 28-07-2011, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by renormalised View Post
Interesting findings, but like anything is science, something could come up to throw a spanner in the works. Best thing for them to do is be prepared for anything. If they find the Higgs as expected, great. If not, and something else turns up or their results for the Higgs turn out completely different, also great. Needs a lot more work done, yet.
Our illuminated EU friends who have no understanding of what a Higgs Boson is, have of course dismissed the findings with their brand of "let's try to make ourselves look intelligent by inventing fairy tales" brand of dialogue.

The "technically orientated" posts are utterly ridiculous.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/p...hp?f=10&t=4730

Regards

Steven
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  #8  
Old 28-07-2011, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjastro View Post
Our illuminated EU friends who have no understanding of what a Higgs Boson is, have of course dismissed the findings with their brand of "let's try to make ourselves look intelligent by inventing fairy tales" brand of dialogue.

The "technically orientated" posts are utterly ridiculous.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/p...hp?f=10&t=4730

Regards

Steven
I wonder how many of them even did basic, elementary physics at school. That Komorikid is a complete twit....let alone the others. Obviously took no notice of anything they were taught at school.
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  #9  
Old 29-07-2011, 09:14 AM
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I am worried that you guys are spending too much time at thunderbolts...

Steven I looked at the link to be aware of your point but then I went to the CERN site and can say probably that was time better spent.

One can read first hand what it is that they are doing, who is doing it and the quipement and experiments are outlined in a non sensational manner so you can get a reasonable idea of what is going on there..

The news reporting game however dictates all news must be sensationalised and I think such an approach is taken even with the reporting of "scientific" news. Why the Higgs Bosen got the tag "the God particle" probably came about via a sensational approach to news style....

alex
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  #10  
Old 04-08-2011, 04:48 PM
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Alex,

What a great avatar.

Cheers
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  #11  
Old 04-08-2011, 08:31 PM
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Alex,

What a great avatar.

Cheers
Thank you Geoff its my new old look

I have been looking at everything CERN for days.
The engineering, the size, the experiments everything. It is an amazing project from any view..scientific, engineering even the politics to get it going.

I cant wait for more news.
I did notice SUSY is hard to find who is she anyways?
If no SUSY it will be a worry.

alex
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  #12  
Old 24-08-2011, 12:28 AM
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http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre77l5ks-us-higgs/

alex
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  #13  
Old 24-08-2011, 06:34 AM
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More quantitative info here ..

Quote:
Apart from a couple of narrow windows at mid-range masses, the LHC has now pretty much excluded Higgs bosons with masses between 145–466 GeV and finds no significant excess of events across the region 110–600 GeV. Direct searches at CERN's previous Large Electron Positron (LEP) collider, which shut down in 2000, excluded a Higgs lighter than 114 GeV, while fits to precision measurements of electroweak Standard Model parameters disfavour a Higgs heavier than 180 GeV.
Meanwhile, the latest results from Higgs searches at the Tevatron collider at Fermilab near Chicago, which is due to close down at the end of September, that were also shown at the Mumbai meeting exclude the regions 100–109 GeV and 156–177 GeV.
So, with this info, I'm not sure where else they can look, yet they seem to concentrating more searches between 110-130 GeV (?). One guy says it'll appear with more data ... then the next guy says the signal might become weaker with more data ..

So, presumably to avoid sending out (more) premature conflicting messages …
Quote:
With the LHC delivering data faster than the researchers can analyse them, physicists have decided against presenting an official combination of the ATLAS and CMS Higgs results until the end of this year's data-taking.
And then .. (gotta love this one) …
Quote:
"As head of the CMS Higgs group I can't hold 'religious' views on whether or not the Higgs exists," says Sharma. "But I'm not particularly fond of the Higgs hypothesis, which seems ad hoc; so if we don't find the Higgs, I'd be quite happy."
.."I'm not religious .. but if you insist, here's a religious statement" … "and, what's more, with this statement, I'm going to look good when we don't find it."

So standing back from it all, overall, are scientists way too obsessed with model predictions ?

Cheers
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  #14  
Old 24-08-2011, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
Well that would make a complete mess of the electroweak theory which is based on the Higgs boson existing.

Regards

Steven
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  #15  
Old 24-08-2011, 08:22 AM
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Another thing I worry about is this "new physics". That's a horribly ambiguous and loaded term. Just about everything and anything can and has been thrown into the mix so far as this is concerned. Everything from the mundanely plausible to the utterly ridiculous and just about everyone that hasn't a clue about physics to begin with has jumped on the bandwagon of its use as a catch-all term to describe anything they don't understand.

I don't even think some of the scientist know what they're saying at times. They may understand where they're coming from, but don't realise just how ambiguous and loaded their pronouncements are.
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  #16  
Old 24-08-2011, 08:54 AM
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I think a lot has to do with the reporter, I have read other of his articles and he seems to have a particular focus...somewhat negative with a touch of sensationalism...

I do think it is odd to have someone up high who is not passionate about the hunt...at least for the publics sake... and how would you feel if you were one of the workers on the job.

And to use the term "new physics" can only do damage as it hints that we start again and provides a cherry for folks who want to offer their "new" physics... silly term.

I can not imagine a day where at a press conference they say we have proved it is not there and here is a copy of "The New Physics" which is going out to schools and Universities.

alex
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  #17  
Old 24-08-2011, 09:02 AM
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Yes I agree that the term "new physics" might be more designed to imply that progress has been made, and there is more to 'discover', rather than there actually being any "new physics".

I mean particle physicists don't really regard the HB as "new physics" and yet, it has never actually been demonstrated. If it isn't discovered, and someone comes up with a new theory of particle physics that doesn't call for a Higgs, or any other experimentally undemonstrable things, then it shouldn't be viewed as "new physics" should it ?

Cheers
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  #18  
Old 24-08-2011, 09:12 AM
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If it's a new theory that extends what we already know, with some added new stuff thrown in for good measure, then no. But if it's a theory that tosses everything, or most of everything, we know out on its ear, then yes.

It's either evolutionary or revolutionary
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  #19  
Old 24-08-2011, 09:14 AM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
...here is a copy of "The New Physics" which is going out to schools and Universities.

alex
Good name for a textbook!!!
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  #20  
Old 24-08-2011, 09:20 AM
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Yes .. for example, SR was never really "new physics" .. it is more likely the only theory that doesn't require "new physics" (at the moment)
… And the only way SR might be incorrect, is if there were "new physics" presently not recognised.

Cheers

Last edited by CraigS; 24-08-2011 at 12:39 PM.
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