NSW Govt has banned laser pointers TODAY.

[snowyskiesau]

It's worth remembering that lasers are not yet banned in NSW, just that they will be soon.
It takes time for a new law to be passed no matter what our premier may think.

FWIW, I bought a laser pointer yesterday and the vendor says he will continue to sell them as long as it is legal to do so.

[Galactic G (Greg)]

The OP's linked article doesn't state that only green lasers will be banned. It appears that all high powered laser devices will be banned in NSW.

My experience in Victoria is even the Victoria Police Licencing Branch didn't know allot about what type of laser was legal or not. Nor did they know what a Newtonian Collimator was, or why some of them are classed as Prohibited Weapons. Once I explained to the officer what it was (including sending him pictures of one) he went away and phoned me back several hours latter after researching the legalities of my Collimator. During his return phone call he laughed and said "I can't believe this is a prohibited weapon, but it is, and you will have to apply for a licence for it."

In Victoria for the owner of a "high powered laser" having a licence for a prohibited weapon means that at any time a police member can knock on your door and ask to see your Prohibited Weapon and inspect how you store it. (ie in a locked safe container.) For the sellers of prohibited weapons it means that every sale of a prohibited weapon must be recorded in a special register noting the person who bought the device and their Approval to Possess a Prohibited Weapon Licence number. Therefore the costs of owning a Prohibited Weapon is more than just the application and licence fees. This will surely see the cost of these devices going up once this law is passed in NSW, and other states follow.

I believe that Laser Pointers should be regulated but putting them in the category of "Prohibited Weapons" is going too far. A valid reason for owning one, a licence test demonstrating that a licence holder knows how to safely use and store the laser would suffice is my opinion.

Licencing will help shape the attitudes of those people who posses and use such a device, and what is expected from them.

Unfortunately, what ever we do, we probably wont keep lasers out of the hand of idiots who want to point them at planes and cars with the intention of making them crash. Anyone advocating shinning a laser in someones eyes isn't the sort of person I would like see owning a laser, and only strengthens the argument that all these devices should be banned outright.

[Ric]

I heard on the late news last night that mighty Morrie is encouraging the public to report any sightings of pointers being used.

Don't upset your neighbours people.

Cheers

[Garyh]

Originally Posted by Galactic G

The OP's linked article doesn't state that only green lasers will be banned. It appears that all high powered laser devices will be banned in NSW.

My experience in Victoria is even the Victoria Police Licencing Branch didn't know allot about what type of laser was legal or not. Nor did they know what a Newtonian Collimator was, or why some of them are classed as Prohibited Weapons. Once I explained to the officer what it was (including sending him pictures of one) he went away and phoned me back several hours latter after researching the legalities of my Collimator. During his return phone call he laughed and said "I can't believe this is a prohibited weapon, but it is, and you will have to apply for a licence for it."

In Victoria for the owner of a "high powered laser" having a licence for a prohibited weapon means that at any time a police member can knock on your door and ask to see your Prohibited Weapon and inspect how you store it. (ie in a locked safe container.) For the sellers of prohibited weapons it means that every sale of a prohibited weapon must be recorded in a special register noting the person who bought the device and their Approval to Possess a Prohibited Weapon Licence number. Therefore the costs of owning a Prohibited Weapon is more than just the application and licence fees. This will surely see the cost of these devices going up once this law is passed in NSW, and other states follow.

I believe that Laser Pointers should be regulated but putting them in the category of "Prohibited Weapons" is going too far. A valid reason for owning one, a licence test demonstrating that a licence holder knows how to safely use and store the laser would suffice is my opinion.

Licencing will help shape the attitudes of those people who posses and use such a device, and what is expected from them.

Unfortunately, what ever we do, we probably wont keep lasers out of the hand of idiots who want to point them at planes and cars with the intention of making them crash. Anyone advocating shinning a laser in someones eyes isn't the sort of person I would like see owning a laser, and only strengthens the argument that all these devices should be banned outright.

I must agree with alot of whats said above...
Putting a collimator in the same class as a flick knife or a crossbow or a sword is a really stupid move. I know which one I would rather have pointed at me....
Can see the news now....Bank robbed by gang armed with collimators....

Also what do they mean by high power pointers? is a 5-10mw regarded as high or are they looking at <200mw?

Don`t the police have enough to do than worry about chasing astronomers down aligning there optics!
This is going to be totally ridiculous

[fringe_dweller]

I am surprised no-one has quoted ..'could only be taken from "..my cold, dead hands" '

[Cerberus]

someone told me D day is may 6th, maybe we should make clear the announcement/warning of the new regulations as opposed to when it comes into effect, most of the police don't even know yet going by first hand reports

[fringe_dweller]

I think have got the answer!, a mass act of civil disobedience - if we all descend upon parliment with our green lasers en masse at night, and wave it at them and blind the entire city, effectively freezing the show - take over the joint until our demands are met BWHAHAHHAHAHYHA only prob is they only have to wait till morning and then we're stuffed?

[Ric]

Hi Kearn, I can just see it all ending with a siege situation.

The TRG surround a backyard observatory but are held at bay by an angry amateur astronomer who refuses to part with their collimator and pointer.

Cheers

[Andrew17]

I just bought a green laser from overseas a few days ago, it was a green 'true 30mw laser'

Im guessing these are considered high powered because of their intensity and capabilities to cut through plastics at close ranges, so what will customs do with all this talk of the bans now? Will I still recieve my laser or will they just keep it there and have my $50 go to waste?

Can I be charged with possesing one just for ordering it?

Thanks

[fringe_dweller]

Hi Ric, LOL! yes it could get messy, like the rambo/ned kelly of outlaw astronomy! maybe scratch that great idea bit

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Andrew17

I just bought a green laser from overseas a few days ago, it was a green 'true 30mw laser'

Im guessing these are considered high powered because of their intensity and capabilities to cut through plastics at close ranges, so what will customs do with all this talk of the bans now? Will I still recieve my laser or will they just keep it there and have my $50 go to waste?

Can I be charged with possesing one just for ordering it?

Thanks

Why do you need 30mW of lasing power ??

You might get a knock on the door if customs or the post office pick up on this.

[robgreaves]

It's a joke - it really is.

However, the media is powerful. They scrapped Concorde. As you might imagine, the media like to blow things out of proportion in pursuit of something called 'sensationalism'. As someone has already said on here, the rising and setting sun carries a higher power density than any handheld laser pointer does... but that doesn't grab the headlines. Pilots don't stare at it either. No newspaper has mentioned the blink aversion I wrote about. How many pilots really have been 'blinded' by laser light? The answer, I think you will find, is a big fat zero.

Give a politician the chance to grab the limelight and wield a bit of bureacratic power, especially in a knee-jerk reaction to something in the news, and you have a dangerous (nanny) state-knows-best situation on your hands. It's happened time and time again in the UK.

The UK Dunblane handgun shooting - right away the government took away all the legitimately owned handguns. People's target shooting hobbies were quashed overnight. But the criminal guns were still out there. It solved absolutely nothing. Had the shooter used a crowbar instead I can guarantee our illustrious government would have banned crowbars...

I'll happily carry on using my laser collimator as a responsible astronomer. I'm really not fussed about chasing a license/permit and locking it in a gun safe, and will appear in court if absolutely necessary and state my case which will beyond all reasonable doubt prove I am not harbouring a 'dangerous weapon' and neither is it ever, will be, or capable of being used as such.

Don't just roll over and buy these permits - the state and the government is (meant to be) there to act on your best interests, not persecuting you from the freedom your previously had in going about your business, or hobby. Once the thin edge of these wedges gets wider, they're not generally reversible! (hence our emigration to Australia).

The louts shining these things at aircraft, whether it harms pilots of not, are the ones that need to look out - not us.

Regards,
Rob.

[ngcles]

Hi All,

Garyh wrote:

"Also what do they mean by high power pointers? is a 5-10mw regarded as high or are they looking at <200mw?"

Well, the answer, at least according to the Premier is that:

__ALL__ Class III __and__ __ALL__ Class IV HAND-HELD lasers will be classed as "Prohibited Weapons" by being placed in Schedule 1 of the Weapons Prohibition Act 1998 and the regulations thereto.

Class III and Class IV includes virtually __ALL__ the ones we are accustomed to using as night star-ponters -- yes even the least powerful 5mW ones. Wattage does not come into it per-se -- if it is Class III or IV, it will be prohibited under the Act. Check the sticker on your laser. Almost without exception, all the ones we are accustomed to using are either Class IIIa or IIIb.

After the legislation is amended/proclaimed you will only be able to lawfully buy/possess/use one if you hold a permit under the Weapons Prohibition Act 1998 and the regulations thereto and comply with the provisions of the Act and regulations as to storage and use. The permit costs $127- (NSW) and is valid for 5 years. You _must_ demonstrate a genuine need to possess in order to get a permit. Being an amateur astronomer will _likely_ get you over the line (no promises).

If you don't have a permit, lawful/reasonable excuse doesn't come into it. Being an astronomer doesn't come into it unless you have a permit. Ignorance of the law is not a defence. The Act punishes offenders with a maximum fine of $5,500 and or 2yrs imprisonment upon summary conviction, or a maximum of 14 years imprisonment if the prosecution proceed on indictment to the District Court.

As for _any_ other HAND-HELD lasers (ie not Class III or IV) (yes even the tiny 0.1mW red-dot ones), if it is found on you in a public place and you do not have a lawful excuse for possession of the laser, you will have commiitted an offence under the Summary Offences Act of having it in possession without a lawful excuse. There are tons of legitimate explainations which could amount to lawful excuses like being a school teacher giving a presentation, a laser telescope collimator (assuming you have the 'scope with you), giving a presentation at a public lecture and using it as a pointer etc etc. There are no restrictions on sale, just on possession wiithout a lawful excuse.

But, for example, if you are found walking out of the cinema down in George St in the City at 1.00am in the morning and it is in your pocket and you don't have a bona-fide legitimate and lawful reason to explain your possession at that time of that tiny red-dot laser, the police can sieze it and you will get an infingement notice or a Court Attendance Notice.

See the Premier's press conference here:


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...21/2222662.htm

I'm not defending the decision by the government -- I believe it sucks so bad it blows. But as I understand it, those are the facts.

Best,

Les D
Contributing Editor
AS&T

[g__day (Matthew)]

So if you have a laser device with no label - how do the police know its rating - and how could they prove you know its rating?

If you say its broken - is it still prohibited?

If its in pieces is a prohibited weapon or a kit?

A converted DVD writer laser is probably alot more dangerous than a star pointer, will they be banned - as they are often beyond 60mW?

http://www.die4laser.com/dvd-rec/Dis...aDVDwriter.htm

overdrive it past 100mW rather simply too http://www.die4laser.com/dvd-rec/Die4Drive.htm

Various people post how to create 250mW red lasers - which would be really dangerous and effectively untraceable http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz4v8...eature=related

So again - I think Pandora's box is well and truly openned.


Given so much technology is available, concealable and if stored in pieces you couldn't tell the output power from seeing only the pieces alone - what would the police do if they wanted to prosecute? The laser diode itself is smaller than a pea, the wiring is simplicityand to convert a torch to laser weapon and back would take very little engineering know how.

Personally I'd be alot more worried about these being used on planes, police or say the pope! Still you could issue saftey glasses to all at risk proffessions - neutral or darkened - and this would be a great safety measure!

[fringe_dweller]

lots of great posts, a force to be reckoned with i would wager they picked on the wrong group of people!
just remembered, wasnt there other legitimate uses for green lasers besides the astronomical related ones? i seem to remember one ad where it said, also used by authorities to humanely unsettle and move on nesting/congregating nuisance birds, like feral pidgeons, as an act of public health and safety. might be some others even.

[aaronm2282]

I have a gun licenses and i need to keep it in a safe under the PWA will the same apply for lasers?

[Peter Ward]

From Shakespeare's Henry VI

'The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers'

[ngcles]

Hi All,

Aaronm 2282 asked:

"I have a gun licenses and i need to keep it in a safe under the PWA will the same apply for lasers?"

Section 26 of the Weapons Prohibition Act Act provides:

WEAPONS PROHIBITION ACT 1998 - SECT 26
General requirement for safe keeping of prohibited weapons
26 General requirement for safe keeping of prohibited weapons
A person who possesses a prohibited weapon must take all reasonable precautions to ensure:

(a) its safe keeping, and
(b) that it is not stolen or lost, and
(c) that it does not come into the possession of a person who is not authorised to possess the weapon.
Maximum penalty: 100 penalty units or imprisonment for 2 years, or both.

Additionally, Regulation 11 & 12 of the Regulations provides:

11 Applicant’s understanding of storage and safety requirements

(1) The Commissioner must not issue a permit unless the Commissioner is satisfied of the following matters:
(a) that the applicant is aware of, and understands, any applicable requirements of the Act and this Regulation in relation to the storage and safe keeping of prohibited weapons,
(b) that the applicant will, if issued with a permit, be able to comply with those requirements.
(2) For the purposes of subclause (1) (b), the Commissioner may order an inspection by a police officer (in accordance with such arrangements as are agreed on by the applicant and the Commissioner) of the proposed storage site for a prohibited weapon. The fee payable for such an inspection is specified in clause 35 (1) (c).



12 General conditions of permit

In accordance with section 14 (3) of the Act, a permit is subject to the following conditions:
(a) the permit holder must comply with any special requirements that are notified to the permit holder in writing by the Commissioner and that relate to the security, storage and safe keeping of the prohibited weapons to which the permit relates,
(b) any conveying of a prohibited weapon to which the permit relates must be in accordance with the following safety requirements:
(i) the permit holder must take all reasonable precautions to ensure that the prohibited weapon is not lost or stolen while it is being conveyed,
(ii) anything designed to be fired or otherwise propelled from a prohibited weapon (for example, an arrow or dart) must be kept separate from the prohibited weapon while it is being conveyed,
(iii) if the conveying is by person, or by public transport, the prohibited weapon must be contained in an unobtrusive locked container,
(iv) if the conveying is by vehicle other than public transport, the prohibited weapon must be stored in a locked compartment within the vehicle, or in a locked container within or properly secured to the vehicle, and must not be able to be seen while it is being transported,
(c) any prohibited weapon to which the permit relates that is referred to in clause 2 (1) of Schedule 1 to the Act must be certified, by the holder of a theatrical weapons armourer permit, as having been deactivated (unless the Commissioner otherwise authorises the permit holder in writing).


They are pretty clear so I won't bother to explain what it all means chapter and verese.

Best,

Les D

[ngcles]

Hi Peter & All,

Peter Ward wrote:

From Shakespeare's Henry VI

'The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers'


Amen and Amen!!

If nothing else, there are far, far, far too many lawyers in Parliament on both sides of the House.

There are far, far too many lawyers that think they are the only people who are intelligent enough to govern us and alone possess a proper "social conscience". Too many lawyers believe that only lawyers can deliver any justice to the plebs.

A former co-worker of mine ( a laywer) is now the state member for Miranda. Barry is actually a very nice guy (but I digress) and generally a good local member. A year or so ago I asked him:

So Barry, this State has now been self governing and making its own laws for about 150 years. Every year, the number of laws increases. When will be have enough laws?

He had no answer.

From a lawyer's point of view, we will never have enough laws. More laws means more bureaucracy means bigger government and more taxes to play with. You've got to love it. The "Nanny State" arrived here more than 30 years ago but it's getting worse. What is the next stage?

Best,


Les D

[Ian Robinson]

My laser is 5mW and red .... so I guess I am safe.