Announcing ... 'Dark Flow'

[xelasnave]

Very interesting Peter and I thank you for taking the time to present such a well considered post.
I doubt if there is much we can do to get past the politics etc other than maybe some fund that gives out without expectation of a return.
That has been done in the past but I ca not remember who or what they came up with but stuff came from folk just being able to explore things with no pressure to make a buck.
But even if we had such a fund do you think it would work the way would like, maybe maybe not, so I just dont know.
I complained to a crank that it is one thing to bag GR but he needed a model or at least direction before he sort to throw out the current model.
And heck in this day and age what do you do. The rent has to be paid and those holding the money need to have some idea that mo ey invested comes back somehow with a profit.
And although profit sounds like a dirty word it is probably better to think of it as a term that is an easy way to measure benefit for time, effort and materials used.
Its not art where all you expect is something that has only the object of letting us stand back and say... er yeh thats cool it reminds me of that time I lost my socks in the car park... I dont get art so I find the benefit to effort ratio unsatisfactory.
But science who really is happy with Edisons throw away line that he had worked out 1000 things that dont work.
And I doubt if he would have been happy with one single failure because he was firstly a business man so he would have been very aware of money in money out rules.
But I dont know, what would you change or would you resist change such that science should be like it was in the old days.
We may be the only folk concerned, so we better come up with some workable ideas.
Alex

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

We may be the only folk concerned, so we better come up with some workable ideas.
Alex

The problem is not specific to the professions of science and engineering etc. Corporatism has permeated most areas of the community and social infrastructure. The political system, charity groups, churches, education, health etc.

Science was one the first to be infiltrated by the short term unaccountable corporate and banking ethic (if you want to call it an ethic - scam is probably more apt a description).

What can we do about the direction Science is heading?

IMO you cant tackle the directional problems in science in isolation. There are institutional and structural problems within society and the way the economy runs and is set up that need attention. Politicians call it reform - a code word for making the elite Oligarchs even richer and more powerful whilst making the middle and lower classes pay for everything and have their security and standards of living diminish over time.

Classic class warfare....and you can see how it operates by the funding mix and ideological interference in basic scientific research and development. What projects are funded, where the money is coming from, who pays, who benefits, who takes the risks, who pays for financial and environmental disasters when they occur....etc...etc

who cares right?

[xelasnave]

I dont know how to respond Peter other than to say that corporation approach is probably better than say human dictatorship as corporations are built from laws and although they get away with a lot they are proba ly more accountable than say a human dictator.
A compa y is somethingbuilt out of law. It must define itself under the law setting out what it can do or cant do, and many corporations have share holders to spread things out as opposed to a dictator.
However corporations yield their own problems. Getting to call any company now has one listening to a list of options with an invitation to press a number which represents the box into which you must fit.
I spent hours trying to speak to a real person at telstra, I got the number thing, but I could not talk to a human.
I am not sure how I finally got one but I think it was because I a swered a survey.
However the human solved my problem in under a minute.
If one ran a small business in such a fashion you would not keep customers but a corporation says to itself this approach saves money and reduces the need for wage taking humans so computers are now all you can talk to... But what do we do? What can we do? I do think things are probably better and certainly there are those at the top who get more than us at the opposite end believe they deserve but finally they are paid to be human. If not for them the machine would have all the power.
I trynot to let things upset me so I say there are things that I dknt like but really I dont know how I would run the world if put in charge.
Free gaming machines maybe.
How would you manage a world full of humans.
And sorry to Craig the op author for being off topic in your thread.. Are you there Craig?
Alex

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

.. Are you there Craig?

No.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by CraigS

No.

I didn't think you were there.
Alex

[xelasnave]

I am going bush so I may not be here when I get back.
Alex

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I dont know how to respond Peter other than to say that corporation approach is probably better than say human dictatorship as corporations are built from laws and although they get away with a lot they are proba ly more accountable than say a human dictator.

Alex

Actually there were three forms of fascism to emerge from the 20th century. Boslhevism, Nazism and Corporatism. They all control the flow of information within their societies.

Have you seen the documentary The Corporation? In the words of Charlton Heston "you may not like what you find"

Have a look at some of these statistics concerning the good old USA

Corpocracies in the USA.

The Crown’s Corpocracy (until 1776).
…………..Pseudo Democracy (89 years)
The Robber Barron’s Corpocracy (1865-1901)
…………..Pseudo Democracy (20 years)
The Flapper Era Corpocracy (1921-1933)
…………..Pseudo Democracy (17 years)
The Cold War Era Corpocracy (1950-1980s)
The Current Corpocracy (1970s – ongoing)


Corpocracy 5
Democracy 3

Corpocratic fascist Rule in the USA since 1776: 112 years
Pseudo-Democratic Rule in the USA since 1776: 126 years

In the USA there has only been 37 years of Pseudo Democratic rule in the past 150 years.

And within this period, slavery and segregation based on gender, race and skin colour has existed.

.....things are not what they appear to be xelA

[xelasnave]

I agree Peter that things are not the way they appear in the sence that each of us constructs our own reality.
I have no doubt that folk like myself can only guess at what really goes on in the world.
I have noticed that the only way I can get a hint of what is going on is to apply my "follow the money" rule.
Also I don't fool myself that fairness prevails but rather vested interests all compete to protect their own interests.
I am happy that the world functions somehow with out me having to help out.
Alex

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I agree Peter that things are not the way they appear in the sence that each of us constructs our own reality.
I have no doubt that folk like myself can only guess at what really goes on in the world.
I have noticed that the only way I can get a hint of what is going on is to apply my "follow the money" rule.
Also I don't fool myself that fairness prevails but rather vested interests all compete to protect their own interests.
I am happy that the world functions somehow with out me having to help out.
Alex

I am more interested in the focus and direction of resistance within society and the dissemination of facts and important issues via a truly independent media that values the profession of investigative journalism, rather than rambling on about some Utopia or social paradise were everything in perfectly just and fair. The very least that we can do as a society is to uphold the values and morals most people know to be important. They tend to be innately understood by humans and on the surface very simple, but nevertheless are very powerful in collective effects.

I suppose the issue is deeper than just politics or psychology - more a huamanist imperative for survival.

[xelasnave]

We can't really talk about this stuff here, its off topic, and a full discussion will cover, I expect religion and politics.
We will breach the rules.
But keep vigilant and switch off your GPS.
Alex