New solar panels installed.

[xelasnave]

Four new big ones 290 watts each.
I was planning on using the old ones (7 x 80 watt panels) on a new observatory project but the installer said I could incorporate the old ones in the system...I wanted to do that in the first place but the guy I first spoke to advised against it, ... Anyways I got up this morning to see if the Sun would rise at the time advised here to our left, it was a minute late but within minutes I am charging at 17 amps ...
This makes me very happy as the house general consumption (fridge and the sat internet service) are less than that.
I also added 500 amp hour batteries to a system in a little shack that I plan to inhabit to get away from the girls at the house.
The system in the shack did not have I battery when the place was purchased but happily everything now works well and that battery bank can supply the main house via a 240vlt cable as a back up.
I am just so happy with the result.
The guys from Rainbow Power Company from Nimbin did a great job...Their address which I post so you can enjoy the novelty given the business they are in....No 1 Alternative Way .

The bad news is the wind Genny is not getting power to the house so I will have to look into that however even though its on top of a hill and on a very tall tower it does not seem to run all that much...plus it probably only does 300 watts or less.


It is just magic here sitting in the Sun ...they have gone out already so I am going to play my three string cigar box guitar and take a well earned break.

Its now charging at 27 amps how good is that.
Alex

[JA]

It's good to see a plan come together. Soak up the rays!

Best
JA

[glend (Glen)]

Good work Alex. My shed battery bank supplies AC back to the house on a separate cable, so i can avoid drawing power from the grid most of the time. The rooftop system on the house is return to grid. I have considered a wind turbine but as you noticed, the affordable ones are not great producers, 300watts is nothing other than float charging for the batteries.

[xelasnave]

More efficient panels on the way.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0711220514.htm
Alex

[Hoges (John)]

My wind turbine sh$t itself a couple years ago but as panels are become cheaper and cheaper (relative to 20 years ago) I don't think I'd bother with another wind turbine. Mind you, it would be great to see a local firm come up with a robust, quiet 1 - 2kw turbine at an affordable price.

Would be nice to see the lithium-ion battery tech get into the off grid community too. Lead-acid is a bit of drag through winter as they lose 1% capacity for every degree below 25C (IIRC) and even then you can only really take half of what's left.

Not much sun in central vic over the last few days...

[xelasnave]

Hi John
Lead acid I work on taking 20%.
You mention 20 years ago ...I think I paid $350 for an 80 watt panel back then.
The great thing is cheap generators I picked up a 2kva with key start from Bunnings only $750 ....and its clean power..how I wish I had one 20 years ago...And back then even to have an inverter was a big deal now they are cheap...
Alex

[LewisM]

My father has a massive array on his roof in outback QLD - enough to feed back to the grid always. Problem is, because it is free energy, he decides to not bother turning off lights in and around the home...so he's a light polluter! Every time I go there (this past weekend), I run around turning everything OFF so I can have the dark skies I want from his back yard

He runs 4 freezers, 3 fridges, reverse cycle air con, 40 terrawatts of lighting yada yada yada all darned day! Just because he can. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[Nebulous (Chris)]

It sounds like the start to a great day Alex. I especially liked the thought of sitting in the sun playing a cigar box guitar. "Feel the Serenity".

[Visionary (David)]

Alex, this is the most sensible and sober discussion I have read on Solar. So often now there is a loud flapping of gums about Solar & the Grid, the Grid doesn't handle intermittent power well, it's a difficult balancing act, Solar and the Grid is not a good mix. What I enjoyed so much about this thread was that you are employing Solar at its best, local production, local consumption, a great mix!
Alex, I wish you many happy hours of contemplation under the warming embrace of Sol.
David

[glend (Glen)]

Originally Posted by Nebulous

It sounds like the start to a great day Alex. I especially liked the thought of sitting in the sun playing a cigar box guitar. "Feel the Serenity".

Or a banjo. Deliverance country up there.

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by glend

Or a banjo. Deliverance country up there.

I have heard Alex's neighbours are known to shout "Squeel like a piggy"...

[xelasnave]

Its clouded over and I am still getting 9 amps.

This place is amid cattle folk who are much different to the hippy folk at the other place.

It is interesting analysing the different groups up here...

And of course in Sydney its Chinese neighbours either side.

Solar power is very expensive.
Panels are relatively cheap but its the little things like regulators and decent inverters.
My four panels were a little over $1000 but the bits and pieces another grand, labour another grand and 2.5 k for only 500 amp hour battery.
The main bank 1200 amp hour will need replacing soon I feel and I can see another 8k for the next battery...say 1600 amp hour.

But what is really needed is a totally new 48 vlt system so my daughter can run her gaming computer all day...well a costing tells me no change out of 30k....then there is the option of connecting to the grid which is only 500k...nothing like the simple life.

Yet up home, where I like to live by myself, an 85 watt panel and 100 amp hour battery was all I needed...

Maybe when she gets her stables she won't spend as much time on the computer...

Alex

[acropolite (Phil)]

Alex, I know the feeling, running idependant of the grid is a buzz, if a little expensive. I have 2Kw on the shack on a 24 V system, supplies all our power needs.

Our array is oversized, i.e. the capacity of the array is larger than the regulator will handle at 24V. That gives us better performance on cloudy days and on either side of the daily peak.

Most decent MPPT regulators will allow oversizing. We've just gone electric on the fridge, having used a Consul gas fridge since 91.

The new LG fridge freezer (340 Litres) uses under 30 amp hours a day ( around .5kwh) , not much more than my 12 V bushman which uses about the same but only has 50 litres capacity.

[xelasnave]

Hi Phil,
The fridge here is pretty good also, I think 700 watts a day and they open and shut it am the time, I still can't believe the washing machine figures I gathered only 350 watts in an hour...
Turning off stuff of a night has seen a big change in power consumption without any downside...pity the rest of the world does not switch off at night.
Alex

[xelasnave]

20 amps at 7 am.

Have not seen charge rate go over 30 amps which I guess is the regulator determining that is sufficient...cause there are 4 x 290 watts plus the old panels 7 x 80 watts...ruffly 1200 + 500 divided by 12 , say 10 so I can work it out in my head, that's approx 170 amp each hour possible.

I get power from 7 am thru to 3 pm so say 7 hours at 20 that's 140 amp hours which is about the daily consumption without turning anything off.

The great thing isy daughters gaming computer seems to consume only 200 watts an hour.

I thought it would have been 1000 so I got her a Genny just for it but as it turns out she can play from 9 am to 2 pm without a worry ...she is happy so I am happy.

Today I will ring bark some trees that prevent charging from around 3 pm and extend charging another two hours...

Next solar hot water...200 MTS of Polly pipe lying on the ground would.do it but she wants a.fancy store bought one.
Alex

[mynameiscd (Andy)]

Hi Alex
We've been living off grid for about 8 years now and after a steep learnimg curve the best decision was to go 48 volt.
When we started building we were given all the wrong advice and went down the 12 volt way.
This meant 4mm wiring on short runs, over priced 12 volt panels, expensive 12 volt breakers.
We started with expensive 12 volt lighting (no leds available) and 12 volt tv as well as a couple of cheap inverters.
When led down lights first came around I used to make my own bayonet hybrid out of old globes. Now they cost $5 of the shelf.
One day I got a cheap offer of 200 watt / 24 volt panels from a solar company that went bust.
I bought a heap of these bust no use on a 12 volt system so they sat around for afew years.
Prices came down, mppt got cheaper, so we did the 48 volt change over.
Now its same batteries but 48 volt, panels are in banks of series at 120 volt dc to a 60 amp controler.
A decent inverter and a 7.8 kva honda genie and no more gas fridge.
When I originally wired the house I did dual 12 volt and 240 volt with homemade powerpoints that took cigarette lighter plugs.
When we did the change over I kept the 12 volt lighting and the odd powerpoint and built a robust 48v to 12v dc step down transformer and kept this system.
The batteries are getting a bit tired so soon we have to replace them. Lead acid is still cheaper but a bit of maintenance is required.
A new school of thought about headroom for cloudy days is being talked about.
Normally you design for 2.5 cloudy days and try to keep discharge to under 30 %. This means more than double the cost of batteries is needed. This way you get about 10 or so years out of the batteries but the last few years the batteries are a bit tirerd anyway.
Get a robust genie with good charging and auto start the system, use the 50% or more discharge rate and only have 1 cloudy day backup.
Yes you will hammer the batteries to only about 5 years lifespan but you need about 1/2 the bank.
Petrol is cheaper than batteries in the long run and technology is changing so each time you upgrade the battery bank it should be cheaper and more efficient
Its still better than paying 70k for the grid so we can pay a bill!!!
In the future base load grid will be battery and stored hot salt for turbines and a shift from total reliance on gas and coal for power generation.
But thats not for a while we all just have to use less and build smart efficient housing.
When you live off grid you always have one eye watching amps and the weather and live accordingly, no lights are ever left on.
I think if houses were installed with coin and note machines on power meters so you pay as you use I think people would get used to turning off plasmas and lights in empty rooms and turn off residual load from standby appliances.
Anyway good to see that im not alone in our way of living
Cheers
Andy

[xelasnave]

Hi Andy
Thank you for taking the time to present such an interesting post.

When alone at the other place I have one 85 watt panel, one 100 amp hour battery, a 750 watt four stroke Genny.

If the clouds set in one litre of petrol takes care of my needs.

There is a good charger and a cheap inverter.

When I started out I had 400 amp hour storage and another panel..I don't know what happened to it ..but like you say 12 vlt stuff was very expensive..I went 240 vlt for lights and instead of $70 for a 12 vlt fluo that lasted less than a year I picked up 240 vlt $6 table lamps at K mart.

No fridge. But small TV, DVD, ... I am very cheap to run.

You are right about the 48 vlts but that will cost $25k to $30k and frankly it would be inconvenient to spend that sort of money.... and the reason why I costed a 48 vlt system was that was so the daughter could have her games computer.

So I am happy to have been able to avoid an upgrade to 48 vlt.

And even the $6k I have spent on the new panels, box and batteries would have gone a long way in petrol.

I absolutely agree in coin operated electricity supply.

And the roll out of solar panels should have involved batteries ...they don't call them battery banks for nothing...you get out what you put in...pity the opportunity to educate folk about power consumption was lost right there.

We had a gas fridge in the early days which was a pain as moths would get attracted to the little flame.and stuff things up...the first you would know was black smoke out the tube and it was such a pain removing the soot.

When she left I got by without a fridge.

The next thing is the auto start for the genny .
I bought her a key.star Genny which is the night of luxury in my world..only $750

And folk think you are a nutty greenie by doing all this stuff but they don't understand the grid is not everywhere...I would love grid power here but its $500,000 away.

Again thank for your most interesting post.
Alex

[xelasnave]

This set up has no head room if it rains its a tank of petrol.
Alex

[xelasnave]

I went to ring bark the trees I spoke about but I could not do it...
What was I thinking to destroy them just to gain a small efficiency.
Thank goodness I did not hurt them.
Alex

[raymo]

When I was kid, [just before Noah was born] we had pay as you go
electricity and gas meters in a cupboard under the stairs. A bit
inconvenient sometimes, but no nasty huge bill surprises.
raymo