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Old 04-08-2015, 07:39 PM
Ceeker (Chris)
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Beginner Eyepiece Advice

Hi There - I'm Chris and I'm new around here and to the hobby.

I recently purchased the 8" Dobsonian from Bintel.

It has a 1200mm focal length (f/6).

I've had a bit of fun with it already and I'm looking to upgrade some of the eyepieces it came with. I'm a little stuck as to where I should go, how much I should spend, and what I should look for.

The scope came with the following:
9mm and 15mm Plossl (50 degrees field of view)
30mm 68 degree FOV "Superview"

These are $50 each on the Bintel website and I haven't been too disappointed by their quality, but the general consensus seems to be to avoid Plossls. I have had some OK views of Saturn with them so far, but it could be a little bigger to see some more detail, and this scope should be able to do more than the 133x that the 9mm eyepiece does for me. I've also had some interesting views of some deep sky objects like Omega Centauri and a few clusters.

First up, Barlow lenses. Bintel have options all the way from $59 to $449, and I'm really not sure what to look for with these or what is likely to constitute the price difference. I know that with a scope of this size, a 5x Barlow is probably useless with most eyepieces, so i'm looking at a 2 or 2.5. I'd be willing to spend extra for a 2" one with a 1.25" adapted, but it's not crucial. Are there any typically good recommendations? Are the base Bintel/GSO ones okay?

Secondly, for planetary views, what do you guys typically recommend? When initially shopping for a telescope, I was recommended to get a wide angle lens like this, but if I spent the extra on something like this instead, what extra am I getting? Or is there another better option? The price of the latter is fine, I'm just utterly confused as to what the extra money gives here - but I'd rather spend the extra now than get the cheap one and be forced into an upgrade later.

Thirdly, for deep sky objects, what should I look for? I understand that greater magnifications reduce contrast, so I probably want higher focal length pieces with greater fields of view. The 30mm I have seems pretty nice for these, but is there something else on the market that would round out my collection?

EDIT - Oh, and I don't wear glasses, so eye relief isn't that important to me. I don't struggle too much with the 9mm Plossl (6mm).

Thanks a lot for any advice.
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Old 05-08-2015, 09:12 PM
Wavytone
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It's better to buy another eyepiece than a Barlow. If you have say two eyepieces low power and medium, barlowing the low one won't be much help and bar lowing the medium one will give high power. But to buy a decent Barlow will cost about as much as buying the high power eyepiece you didn't have.
Secondly as a general rule, the fewer pieces of glass in the path, the better, optically - ie a good high power eyepiece will almost certainly be better than a medium one with Barlow.
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Old 06-08-2015, 07:24 AM
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Allan_L (Allan)
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Hi Chris,
Welcome to IceInSpace .

Have a look at this thread, it discusses similar questions to your's.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=137284

First of all, (from my experience) there is nothing wrong with Plossl eps. They are generally good value for money. However, high magnification and small exit pupil can leave you feeling like you are looking through a straw. And with manual tracking, this can be frustrating.

The more expensive high magnification eps have more glass, designed to give a more comfortable and pleasing view, and that is what you are paying for.

But, very high magnification will only yield good views on nights of good seeing, (low humidity, stable atmosphere, etc.).

Best advice is to try to get to a local observing session and try other people's eyepieces in your scope, and talk to their owners.

In my kit, the high mag eps are not used a hell of a lot, but on good nights, they provide some good views of Saturn and Jupiter, and that is mainly all they are used for.
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Old 06-08-2015, 10:18 AM
ab1963 (Andrew)
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Hi
I would suggest for planets a good Orthoscopic 7mm ,that would give you 171x in the scope you have as a 6mm would be at its limit,I have the KK fujiyama hd's and they are razor sharp and affordable ,neutral colour and very good contrast,you would have to spend a lot of coin to better them IMO ,I think they cost around $110,that is my take

Last edited by ab1963; 06-08-2015 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 06-08-2015, 12:04 PM
N1 (Mirko)
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Hi
I would suggest for planets a good Orthoscopic 7mm ,that would give you 171x in the scope you have as a 6mm would be at its limit,I have the KK fujiyama hd's and they are razor sharp and affordable ,neutral colour and very good contrast,you would have to spend a lot of coin to better them IMO ,I think give or take $110,that is my take
There is some discussion around the usefulness of orthos in a dob. Detractors don't like the short eye relief of the shorter FLs and especially the narrow field. Keep that in mind. However, anatomy permitting, the reward for using them anyway is huge. Raw performance at a very good price. I have a set of KKs and Hutechs and use them all the time (incl. the 4mm), and in the exact same telescope as the OP's (well, the GSO version). Interestingly, I've used the 7mm KK on Saturn in outreach several times now and never did anyone complain. It worked fine and people loved the sharp views.
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:59 AM
Ceeker (Chris)
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Thanks for the advice everyone!

I had been looking at the university optics 6mm HD orthoscopic, but general consensus around the place from my own research seems to be that a magnification that high could be pushing it, so the 7mm Kokusai Kohki looks like it might be a goer.

Having said that, conditions were really good where I am in Canberra tonight. I had amazing clear views even with my included plossls and while I'm no expert, I felt I could have pushed it much further! Going to be sleepy at work tomorrow.

Anyway, $110 for that one is perfectly acceptable to me since I had an overall budget of $1000 (so $400 left after buying the scope and getting it shipped here). I also don't find hand tracking Saturn in my 9mm too difficult - with a bit of practice I've gotten the hang of it.

With the rest of that money I'm looking at getting the 2" UO Barlow since it's apparently good quality according to a review here and comes with a 1.25" adapter. It's $70. While I note Wavytone's caveat that it's better to buy another eyepiece and there may be some quality degradation, I figure this will double the range of magnifications I have to play with and I'll at least get a better feel for what works in different conditions, which is worth the price to me.

I'm also interested in getting a ultra wide FOV ep of some sort for some deep sky viewing - any recommendations? UO have a 15mm 80 degree one for $75 and a few slightly more expensive options. If I get the above two, I've got $200 left, so I can go for something a bit pricier. I already have a wide angle 30mm so if I get the Barlow the 15mm isn't so valuable to me.
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Old 07-08-2015, 05:16 AM
ab1963 (Andrew)
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The Denkmeier 21mm 65deg for a wide angle is a awesome ep ,would give you 57x and a .879 Afov,very dark background and natural colours pin sharp stars with very good contrast,I bought mine used for 200 bucks and love it,just another option,they also do a 14mm never tried one

Last edited by ab1963; 07-08-2015 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 07-08-2015, 07:41 AM
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AstralTraveller (David)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceeker View Post
Thanks for the advice everyone!

I had been looking at the university optics 6mm HD orthoscopic, but general consensus around the place from my own research seems to be that a magnification that high could be pushing it, so the 7mm Kokusai Kohki looks like it might be a goer.

Can't you get the UO HD in 7mm?? I've got one. Can't speak highly enough of it.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:30 AM
N1 (Mirko)
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Originally Posted by AstralTraveller View Post

Can't you get the UO HD in 7mm?? I've got one. Can't speak highly enough of it.
It will be just about identical to a 7mm KK or Hutech. Whichever is easiest and cheapest to get should do. Barry from Kokusai Kohki is great to deal with and ships direct from Japan

http://www.kkohki.com/English/kkohkiparts.html

I have an excellent but slightly older UO 5mm ortho. For some reason it has less eye relief than my brother's new 5mm KK and is comparable to my own 4mm Astro Hutech. I'm sure the latest UOs have improved in that regard.

Last edited by N1; 07-08-2015 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:03 AM
ab1963 (Andrew)
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It is said the uo's ,hutech and kk's are all made at the same factory in Japan with slightly different specks but the optics are equal ,and it is said there is only 1 factory that makes Orthos there now the same people who made the masuyamas ,just don't know where this place is or its name,it seems that this is cloaked in secrecy, that is where I'm at with the research I have done
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:08 AM
N1 (Mirko)
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All I've found was this secretly obtained wikileaks photo showing the QC department of the ortho plant. The look like the short FL units.
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:08 AM
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If there is a difference it's likely to be in the coatings. That, as I understand it, is the difference between the older UO volcano tops and the newer (and supposedly better) HD series.
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Old 07-08-2015, 03:09 PM
Ceeker (Chris)
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Originally Posted by AstralTraveller View Post

Can't you get the UO HD in 7mm?? I've got one. Can't speak highly enough of it.
Unfortunately no, only 6mm, 12mm or 25mm currently.

If its possibly from the same factory, I'll just get the KK.
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Old 07-08-2015, 03:21 PM
Ceeker (Chris)
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The Denkmeier 21mm 65deg for a wide angle is a awesome ep ,would give you 57x and a .879 Afov,very dark background and natural colours pin sharp stars with very good contrast,I bought mine used for 200 bucks and love it,just another option,they also do a 14mm never tried one
Cheers, looks good but a little out of what I'm willing to spend for a new one, works out to be almost $400AUD new. Will keep an eye out for a second hand one.
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Old 08-08-2015, 03:25 AM
Ceeker (Chris)
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Well, 7mm Orthos seem really hard to find right now...at least ones with decent shipping rates. Agena Astro has the 7mm KKs in stock, but shipping is horrendous and will take about a month - can't find anywhere that stocks them and uses UPS instead. Some places are showing them as discontinued as well.

A UO HD 6mm ortho (or barlowed 12.5mm) looks like it would be much easier and cheaper. How much practical difference will that really make to viewing quality under average conditions? Will I get away with it, or should I really set my goal on that 7mm?
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Old 08-08-2015, 03:50 AM
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You can spend a lifetime wasting money on eyepieces, and if you follow advice on astronomy forums you likely will

Seeing that you've already got the 30mm GSO SuperView my advice [sic] would be to get the Baader 8-24mm Mk.III zoom. In an 8" Dob this will keep you happily occupied for years. It'll offer much better comfort than the 9mm and 15mm Plössls (comfort at the eyepiece is very important!) and of course the added convenience of not having to swap eyepieces.
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:04 AM
ab1963 (Andrew)
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IMO for what its worth the eyepiece is the most important component in the telescope chain and its a no brainer why some cost big bucks in comparison to their nearest counterparts ,or are difficult to aquire,your best guide to if people are happy with ep's or not is the used market because 9 times out of ten you will only sell if you are not happy with it,or to upgrade it to something that gives you the wow factor,but at the end of the day it is what makes you happy enjoying such a fantastic pastime
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Old 08-08-2015, 10:49 AM
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A good zoom like the Baader if you can afford it is a good way to go.
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Old 08-08-2015, 12:04 PM
Ceeker (Chris)
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You can spend a lifetime wasting money on eyepieces, and if you follow advice on astronomy forums you likely will

Seeing that you've already got the 30mm GSO SuperView my advice [sic] would be to get the Baader 8-24mm Mk.III zoom. In an 8" Dob this will keep you happily occupied for years. It'll offer much better comfort than the 9mm and 15mm Plössls (comfort at the eyepiece is very important!) and of course the added convenience of not having to swap eyepieces.
Hah, point taken! I'm a musician as well so I'm no stranger to endless money sinks. At least eyepieces take up less room

Interesting, I had heard zooms weren't much good, but Baader is a name that people seem to recommend a lot, so I'll look into it. Cheers
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Old 08-08-2015, 01:49 PM
N1 (Mirko)
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Looks like we've come full circle.
Because if the image quality of a plossl (not necessarily GSO) doesn't satisfy you, I doubt very much that that of a Baader zoom will.

You really should try before you buy. There are as many views as there are people. Add owners' bias and you have a task at hand.

Last edited by N1; 08-08-2015 at 02:02 PM.
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