#141  
Old 11-06-2013, 12:11 PM
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Grimmeister (Anthony)
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Hi All,

I make no claim to be an "Expert in the matter" and am only trying to encourage those that have a mount to start testing them with the methods currently supported by SkyWatcher, the direct methods will no doubt come in time as those who have been down this path and know more will have many ideas about what is required.

For the interface comments of 3.3 Volts, this was earlier commented on from the manual, section 3.3 page 15 indicating the pin out arrangements for the hand controller and the connection voltage of 3.3 volts. Reasons behind such a decision are SkyWatchers

Manual can be found here: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/user...eq8_manual.pdf

WRT connections via the SynScan hand controller, please see extract from EQMod web site stating the details around the use of connections via the hand controller. Scroll down to "Mount Interface" section and read at your leisure. http://eq-mod.sourceforge.net/reqindex.html

I am only commenting on what has been written on the web site by those that write and support the software. Again not my area of expertise but I respect the authors in their knowledge and limitations of said connection method and try to adhere to their way of doing things.

This handset feature was introduced with SynScan firmware release V3.21 and became stable by V3.25. It provides a communication path such that PC messages recieved by the synscan handcontroller are forwarded to the mount. Despite its inclusion PC-Direct mode remains an undocumented feature of the Synscan handcontroller and the EQMOD developers have no knowledge of how it works or of its limitations. We cannot therefore make any guarentees as to its operation with EQMOD which was designed only for direct connection to the mount. Whilst PC-Direct mode offers an ideal method for users to evaluate EQMOD control we would advise that for extended and/or unattended use one of the options below is adopted.

Regards

Anthony
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  #142  
Old 11-06-2013, 12:23 PM
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DavidTrap (David)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimmeister View Post
Hi All,

I make no claim to be an "Expert in the matter" and am only trying to encourage those that have a mount to start testing them with the methods currently supported by SkyWatcher, the direct methods will no doubt come in time as those who have been down this path and know more will have many ideas about what is required.

For the interface comments of 3.3 Volts, this was earlier commented on from the manual, section 3.3 page 15 indicating the pin out arrangements for the hand controller and the connection voltage of 3.3 volts. Reasons behind such a decision are SkyWatchers

Manual can be found here: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/user...eq8_manual.pdf

WRT connections via the SynScan hand controller, please see extract from EQMod web site stating the details around the use of connections via the hand controller. Scroll down to "Mount Interface" section and read at your leisure. http://eq-mod.sourceforge.net/reqindex.html

I am only commenting on what has been written on the web site by those that write and support the software. Again not my area of expertise but I respect the authors in their knowledge and limitations of said connection method and try to adhere to their way of doing things.

This handset feature was introduced with SynScan firmware release V3.21 and became stable by V3.25. It provides a communication path such that PC messages recieved by the synscan handcontroller are forwarded to the mount. Despite its inclusion PC-Direct mode remains an undocumented feature of the Synscan handcontroller and the EQMOD developers have no knowledge of how it works or of its limitations. We cannot therefore make any guarentees as to its operation with EQMOD which was designed only for direct connection to the mount. Whilst PC-Direct mode offers an ideal method for users to evaluate EQMOD control we would advise that for extended and/or unattended use one of the options below is adopted.

Regards

Anthony
I suppose the real question is, "Has the 3.35 update changed the caveats mentioned on the EQMod page about PC Direct Mode?"

DT

Last edited by DavidTrap; 11-06-2013 at 12:23 PM. Reason: added a bit
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  #143  
Old 11-06-2013, 01:23 PM
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AstroJunk (Jonathan)
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And here's the 2 dollar fix: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8745 if that indeed is the issue.

Thankfully, I'm planning to drive mine from existing planetarium s/w using POTH via the handset's PC connection. Fingers crossed that still works
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  #144  
Old 11-06-2013, 02:46 PM
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naskies (Dave)
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Hi Chris,

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisshillito View Post
EQMOD aims to be a free and open project and we will never charge for EQMOD nor request donations. The consequence of this is that developers bear the cost of development and naturally support for new equipment will only occur if a current developer buys that equipment or new developers join the project.
I'm another happy user of EQMOD and very grateful for your efforts!

Quote:
If the EQ8 is not EQASCOM compatible then I would urge all those who are considering this mount to question Skywatcher, and their distributors as to why, what has changed and what, if anything they plan to do about it.

If Skywatcher are made aware that their customer base demands it then they may be more willing to volunteer technical information to the EQMOD development team that would ease any development effort. Failing that to reverse engineer an EQ8 a developer would require access to a motor controller board, motors+encoders and synscan - they wouldn't need a gift of an entire mount.
Skywatcher appears to have released some source code and an API for their mounts back in 2011 (though it seems a little redundant given the existence of EQMOD):

http://www.skywatcher.com/swtinc/news.php?id=21

However, they do seem to be willing to share technical information about their mounts. Their website encourages feedback on the Facebook page, so perhaps that would be a good place to provide feedback about wanting access to technical specifications?

https://www.facebook.com/SkyWatcherTelescope

At a minimum, I'd imagine that the new addition of absolute encoders would require some tweaking to the EQMOD code...
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  #145  
Old 11-06-2013, 05:03 PM
chrisshillito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin66 View Post
Anthony,
I haven't heard of any hang-ups or issues using EQmod under the Synscan PC-Direct since the introduction of V3.2.
If someone has factual information and examples please let me know.
I've received reports of issues, I think with with V3.4 where it appeared the old "press a button and it stops tracking" bug had resurfaced but I understand all is well again with the latest version.

Chris.
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  #146  
Old 11-06-2013, 05:23 PM
chrisshillito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTrap View Post
I suppose the real question is, "Has the 3.35 update changed the caveats mentioned on the EQMod page about PC Direct Mode?"
Nothing has changed in that respect. The advice given on the EQMOD Project website is simply intended to steer folks down the route of what we consider "best practice". Using PC-Direct introduces an necessary variable into your setup over which the EQMOD developers have no control or influence. As as a consequence the most robust EQMOD setup will always be one that uses a direct hardware interface rather than relying on third party software.

PC-Direct is not a hardware solution like the EQDIR but rather is a software solution and all software algorithms come with inherent constraints. Until such time that Skywatcher/Synta publish details of exactly how PC-Direct mode works (buffering limits, timings, routing details etc.) there is no way I can guarantee that EQMOD is not operating in a way that may cause issues.

This all said, many folks choose to ignore this advice and have used PC-Direct with no issues at all. I have no problem with that, It is your equipment and your choice how it is used.

Chris.
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  #147  
Old 11-06-2013, 05:34 PM
chrisshillito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naskies View Post
At a minimum, I'd imagine that the new addition of absolute encoders would require some tweaking to the EQMOD code...
Not necessarily, as I understand it the Skywatcher Az-EQ6GT also has absolute hardware encoders and folks are using that with the current EQMOD release with no issues.

Chris.
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  #148  
Old 11-06-2013, 07:32 PM
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I'm sure we're all interested to see how PC direct mode goes on the EQ8s but for my HEQ5 and EQ6 I don't miss the handcontroller one bit. To run in direct mode you have to carry the handset, keep it protected, wire it up when you set up, wait for it to fire up, enter the date/time, escape, get into the Utility menu etc to start PC direct.

EQMOD direct - power on, one click on the PC - BANG! Away you go in bliss with N point cal's, wireless gamecontroller, etc.
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  #149  
Old 11-06-2013, 07:42 PM
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Tandum (Robin)
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Tracking on my mount is now active and it says it will be in Brisbane Tomorrow ...

I've never used any of eqmods tricks. i just need a driver to point the scope where I tell it to go. Pinpoint does the positioning. I turn N point etc off.
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  #150  
Old 11-06-2013, 08:11 PM
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I can see this thread is going to be a 1000 pages plus such is the nature of IISpacers
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  #151  
Old 11-06-2013, 08:35 PM
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DavidTrap (David)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisshillito View Post
Nothing has changed in that respect. The advice given on the EQMOD Project website is simply intended to steer folks down the route of what we consider "best practice". Using PC-Direct introduces an necessary variable into your setup over which the EQMOD developers have no control or influence. As as a consequence the most robust EQMOD setup will always be one that uses a direct hardware interface rather than relying on third party software.

PC-Direct is not a hardware solution like the EQDIR but rather is a software solution and all software algorithms come with inherent constraints. Until such time that Skywatcher/Synta publish details of exactly how PC-Direct mode works (buffering limits, timings, routing details etc.) there is no way I can guarantee that EQMOD is not operating in a way that may cause issues.

This all said, many folks choose to ignore this advice and have used PC-Direct with no issues at all. I have no problem with that, It is your equipment and your choice how it is used.

Chris.
Thanks for the comprehensive reply Chris.

I've been trying to help a friend setup his EQ6 using PC-direct to see if EQmod will let him achieve certain things with various bits of software. If we can prove it works, it will then be worth buying the EQDirect hardware.

DT
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  #152  
Old 11-06-2013, 08:50 PM
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I wonder if the permanent PEC will operate if connecting to the PC and not using the hand controller at all. Also, which EQMOD dongle to use - th EQ8 seems to have a hand controller connection like a HEQ5 but would that dongle/connector also operate on an EQ8?
Peter
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  #153  
Old 11-06-2013, 08:55 PM
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Tandum (Robin)
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Coming in late Pete. Rob tried his heq5 eq-dir thing at martins unboxing and it did not work. No usb-serial was available to try pc-direct. Someone suggested it may have moved from 5v ttl to 3.3v ttl signalling, but it's the same handset so I doubt that one. In any case I made up a 3.3v blue tooth thing to try.

The celestron unified ascom driver lists skywatcher as a mount in it's setup and it is the driver recommended in previous manuals. It does not use pc-direct so all handset functions still work if you use that. It connects via the serial aux port on the handset.

I'll know more when the mount arrives

Did you get one as well?

Last edited by Tandum; 11-06-2013 at 09:06 PM.
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  #154  
Old 11-06-2013, 10:03 PM
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pmrid (Peter)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tandum View Post
Coming in late Pete. Rob tried his heq5 eq-dir thing at martins unboxing and it did not work. No usb-serial was available to try pc-direct. Someone suggested it may have moved from 5v ttl to 3.3v ttl signalling, but it's the same handset so I doubt that one. In any case I made up a 3.3v blue tooth thing to try.

The celestron unified ascom driver lists skywatcher as a mount in it's setup and it is the driver recommended in previous manuals. It does not use pc-direct so all handset functions still work if you use that. It connects via the serial aux port on the handset.

I'll know more when the mount arrives

Did you get one as well?
Yeah,that's me, a late starter!
I've got one of those Shoestring USB2EQ5 virtual serial port cables that I was hoping might work. Is that what Rob tried?
Peter
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  #155  
Old 11-06-2013, 10:20 PM
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RobF (Rob)
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It was one of these Hitec ones for HEQ5Pro we tried Peter - http://www.hitecastro.co.uk/index.ph...ptor&Itemid=54

I normally travel with a USB to serial adaptor, but its currently tangled up in an ever expanding tumour of cables and boxes with flashing LEDs hanging off the side of my Tak. Damned refractors....


Nice mount. Go on - you know you want one!
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  #156  
Old 11-06-2013, 10:38 PM
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AstroJunk (Jonathan)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmrid View Post
I wonder if the permanent PEC will operate if connecting to the PC and not using the hand controller at all. Also, which EQMOD dongle to use - th EQ8 seems to have a hand controller connection like a HEQ5 but would that dongle/connector also operate on an EQ8?
Peter
Very good point about PPEC, and PAE too I figure.

The connector conundrum has everyone baffled - Its the same Synscan handset but the mount has a slightly lower voltage TTL spec which 'may' be accommodated by the mount. But 100% of the dongles tried on EQ8 mounts have failed. All one of them

Time will tell where the issue lies. I'm sure the tenacious community will have it solved very quickly!
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  #157  
Old 12-06-2013, 05:45 AM
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pmrid (Peter)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobF View Post
Nice mount. Go on - you know you want one!
Hey Rob!! I've been selling off bits of surplus kit for a month or so while pondering the possibility of an EQ8 and saving up my acorns. I sure am looking forward to someone actually putting one to work under the stars and posting some results.

By the way, has anyone been puzzled by the fact that Skywatcher don't refer to the EQ8 on their web site (skywatcher.com). And according to that same site, the latest firmware version for Synscan is 3.32. Odd.

Peter
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  #158  
Old 12-06-2013, 01:20 PM
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Popping up like mushrooms. Note the 2x2.5kg weights on top to achieve balance.

EQMOD can talk to the mount using PC-direct. ie via the aux port on the handset with pc-direct selected.

EQMOD hangs on connect using my homebrew 3.3v bluetooth device direct connected to the mount, no handset.

The Unified Celestron driver set to skywatcher works with the handset in normal mode, via the aux port. ie: not pc-direct mode.



I need a 9pin female to make an adapter for my eq6 eq-dir device, but I doubt it will work anyway.
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Last edited by Tandum; 12-06-2013 at 01:42 PM.
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  #159  
Old 12-06-2013, 01:27 PM
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Grimmeister (Anthony)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tandum View Post
Popping up like mushrooms. Note the 2x2.5kg weights on top to achieve balance.

EQMOD can talk to the mount via PC-direct.

EQMOD hangs on connect using my 3.3v bluetooth device.

Unified Celestron driver set to skywatcher works in normal handset mode.
Quote:
Great news Robin for EQMod, was this using the standard EQDir or a specific brand?? Really keen to know details.
Sorry just reread the post, this was via the PC Direct mode, I jumped the gun LOL.

Thanks for testing and posting

Cheers

Anthony

Last edited by Grimmeister; 12-06-2013 at 02:56 PM.
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  #160  
Old 12-06-2013, 01:31 PM
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What's the diameter of the counterweight shaft, Robin? Looks a bit spindly but maybe it's because the mount is large?
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