There seems a few things credited to folk other than who I thought invented them???
Wireless and dynamo...
But certainly.some.great work.
It is interesting that the church can hold some very odds ideas and practice some very odd customs and yet be responsible for the education of so many folk with wonderful accomplishments.
I wonder how many were closet atheists.
Anyways given the numbers the church educate it would be disappointing if they had not educated folk who went on to do great things.
Alex
PS..... nearly all world changeing invetions were made by dreamers not scientists
Can you back up that statement please, I believe it is very, very inaccurate.
Interestingly lots of inventions were made by accidents or were accidental discoveries. Penicillin, rubber, microwaves, radioactivity/x-rays, LSD and Viagra, just to name a few. The list goes on and on.
If you look at the list one thing that stands out is that most of them lived before the 20th century. Have you considered that getting a good education in the old days was almost impossible unless you were part of the church? And also how it repressed any views that did not agree with theirs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave
Some would call Tesla a dreamer maybe, is that who you had in mind? He probably tops the list for world changing inventions...radio etc...and I suppose he was not a scientist strictly speaking.
Must correct you on this one Alex. While lots of people think that Tesla was a dreamer he actually was a big time scientist of his time, with advanced education in mechanical and electrical engineering and physics and lots of experience in telephony and electrical power industry. Without that background I doubt he would have been able to "dream up" all those "magical" things we are using nowadays...
Must correct you on this one Alex. While lots of people think that Tesla was a dreamer he actually was a big time scientist of his time, with advanced education in mechanical and electrical engineering and physics and lots of experience in telephony and electrical power industry. Without that background I doubt he would have been able to "dream up" all those "magical" things we are using nowadays...
Yes it seems many paint a picture of Tesla which is simply wrong.
There seems a movement to set him aside.
I blame the relativitists they never talk well of him.
I raised Tesla once on a forum and all they could say was he was a poor business man, he died poor and had some strange ideas...if that is not sour grapes I don't know what is...also they link him to ratbag ideas as I believe an effort to minimise his greatness... It was years before he got credit for the radio...at school we were taught it was Marconi ....why was that?
I was not sure of his qualifications but I was confident he had some...I am glad you presented what I could not.
From The New York Times (July 11, 1935):
He described relativity as "a beggar, wrapped in purple, whom ignorant people took for a king." In support of his statement he cited a number of experiments he had conducted, he said, as far back as 1896 on the cosmic ray. He has measured cosmic ray velocities from Antarus, he said, which he found to be fifty times greater than the speed of light, thus demolishing, he contended, one of the basic pillars of the structure of relativity, according to which there can be no speed greater than that of light.
Reading up on Tesla it seems he did not think much of relativity and said so...so perhaps that is why now they in my view try to discredit him.
If you want to know more about Tesla and the fight over a little something called electricity...
See Episode 5: "A New Rival Emerges" and Episode 6: "Owning It All" of the History Channel documentary, "The Men Who Built America"... it'll make it clear that Tesla was both a Dreamer and an Inventor, won several battles, but lost the war.
Label me whatever you want. Not once has either Alex or myself claimed to be the 'be all and end all.'
I base my views on the works of those who are experts in the field. My expertise in astronomy is minor planets, and I'm probably not the only one here.
I'm not sure how various civilisation's religious views impact what is orbiting our sun right now, but good on you for trying.
I wasn't referring to religious views as such.....I was trying to prompt you know~it~all materialists to show a little humility. I think Nikola Tesla has summed it all up, way better than I....
I wasn't referring to religious views as such.....I was trying to prompt you know~it~all materialists to show a little humility. I think Nikola Tesla has summed it all up, way better than I....
Hi John interesting quote thanks for posting.
Humility is my greatest quality, I am so humble it is embarrassing for people close to me...
So I am not sure where I have showed a lack of humility but if you could point out where I have not been humble maybe I can rephrase what it is that I have said to be more in keeping with my humble approach to reality.
Humility is my greatest quality, I am so humble it is embarrassing for people close to me...
So I am not sure where I have showed a lack of humility but if you could point out where I have not been humble maybe I can rephrase what it is that I have said to be more in keeping with my humble approach to reality.
Alex
Hello Alex. I wasn't referring to you in particular, but to the poster who quoted me.
Lack of humility, in believing that your conclusions that the universe is just what you are able to see, feel, touch, hear, measure, etc. Tesla has said it much more eloquently (see above/below) than I could ever hope to.
I wasn't referring to religious views as such.....I was trying to prompt you know~it~all materialists to show a little humility. I think Nikola Tesla has summed it all up, way better than I....
So calling someone a 'know it all' is a sign of humility then....
Interesting.
One as meek as I wouldn't dare question such a statement.
Hello Alex. I wasn't referring to you in particular, but to the poster who quoted me.
Lack of humility, in believing that your conclusions that the universe is just what you are able to see, feel, touch, hear, measure, etc. Tesla has said it much more eloquently (see above/below) than I could ever hope to.
Thank you John.
I am curious why you consider it is not acceptable to gather information by observation using our various sences, our only reliable tools, ....are we to observe reality this way or rely on someone to make up his version of reality, based merely on an unsupported view that he has made up as how things work....using nothing but a strange imagination untethered to factual observation.
That would leave us running our lives shackled to some fools superstitious ideas of reality.
Consider how folk thought the Moon was a perfect sphere or that the Earth was orbited by the Sun...made up to suit a cults imagination of an unsupported reality, Consider how that cult responded to actual observation using,real sences possessed by humans given those observations did not fit the imaginings of the cult...
They refused to accept the reality and persecuted the man who made the observation.
Not very humble of them...
Give me facts give me evidence give me a cause and effect rationalisation of how the universe works....and let those who make up facts be called mere fictionalists.
Thank you John.
I am curious why you consider it is not acceptable to gather information by observation using our various sences, our only reliable tools, ....are we to observe reality this way or rely on someone to make up his version of reality based merely on an unsupported view he has made up as how things work using nothing but a strange imagination untethered to factual observation.
Consider how folk thought the Moon was a perfect sphere or that the Earth was orbited by the Sun...made up to suit a cults imagination of an unsupported reality, Consider how that cult responded to actual observation using,real sences possessed by humans given those observations did not fit the imaginings of the cult...
They refused to accept the reality and persecuted the man who made the observation.
No very humble of them...
Give me facts give me evidence give me a cause and effect rationalisation of how the universe works....and let those who make up facts be called mere fictionalists.
Alex
OK, I'll try another tack.
Alex. have you ever considered the possibility that what your senses are telling you, is an entirely false (or at least not a complete) view of reality? In other words, could your 'infallible' senses (by which you put so much store), be leading you astray?
Alex. have you ever considered the possibility that what your senses are telling you, is an entirely false (or at least not a complete) view of reality? In other words, could your 'infallible' senses (by which you put so much store), be leading you astray?
It is possible I am a brain in a vat an my reality is only given to me via electrical impulses stimulating my brain such that everything is only a dream.
Although I doubt that I accept it is possible.
I think some folk get lead astray because they fail to analyse what is put before them and demand evidence to support the presented imagination of some one who hold an unsupported and unverified belief.
Superstition is something humans seem to enjoy even when they know it is mere superstition...some read their stars just for fun ...as a mere indulgence for fun but with no belief because they remain in control of their minds ...minds that can establish fact and fiction.
Others believe in the stars...really believe..with no foundation..their belief let's them exclude reality...they have a belief, they know they are right but they can never admit they are deluded.
So I don't think I have a problem with reality I have not included in my reality anything that does not have reasonable factual support and is devoid of superstition.
It is possible I am a brain in a vat an my reality is only given to me via electrical impulses stimulating my brain such that everything is only a dream.
Although I doubt that I accept it is possible.
I think some folk get lead astray because they fail to analyse what is put before them and demand evidence to support the presented imagination of some one who hold an unsupported and unverified belief.
Superstition is something humans seem to enjoy even when they know it is mere superstition...some read their stars just for fun ...as a mere indulgence for fun but with no belief because they remain in control of their minds ...minds that can establish fact and fiction.
Others believe in the stars...really believe..with no foundation..their belief let's them exclude reality...they have a belief, they know they are right but they can never admit they are deluded.
So I don't think I have a problem with reality I have not included in my reality anything that does not have reasonable factual support and is devoid of superstition.
Alex
Let's take astrology, then. Here is a subject that is of vast proportions and many of the great civilizations....China, India, Europe....each has its own version. The big problem with astrology, is that it is so unreliable, especially when it comes to predicting the future. There is obviously a kernel of truth in astrology....for instance, in identifying personality traits evident in people born at certain times of the year, or in certain years (as in Chinese astrology), but if there ever was a complete body of knowledge in this area, then it was lost many centuries ago....perhaps in antiquity. It is now a fractured discipline and best left alone....at least in my view.
The idea that the heavenly bodies can influence us in our everyday lives, is not so far fetched. For instance, the term, lunatic, was coined, initially, to describe the influence a full moon has on certain individuals. Just ask a cop or doctor or nurse what they think about full moons.
So if a body like the moon can influence our actions/emotions, then surely it is just possible that other, more distant, bodies could exert an influence, also.
John consider where you get these truths about astrology .. In particular your statement re different personality traits turning on time of birth...this may or may not be so but until we see a research paper where a large group have been studied it sounds like casual generalisation.
As to lunatics...or those apparently influenced by the Moon...consider this...there may be a relationship between the fact that Moon lite nights are conducive to activity ,more light, and more things happening....up my way most parties are set to coincide with full Moon...strange things can happen of course but they probably happen if the parties were set at new Moon.
So I reject most of what you say unless you can provide reasonable evidence things are as you say you believe them to be...
John consider where you get these truths about astrology .. In particular your statement re different personality traits turning on time of birth...this may or may not be so but until we see a research paper where a large group have been studied it sounds like casual generalisation.
As to lunatics...or those apparently influenced by the Moon...consider this...there may be a relationship between the fact that Moon lite nights are conducive to activity ,more light, and more things happening....up my way most parties are set to coincide with full Moon...strange things can happen of course but they probably happen if the parties were set at new Moon.
So I reject most of what you say unless you can provide reasonable evidence things are as you say you believe them to be...
Alex, this is where people like you and me will always differ. There is abundant literature on the subject of personality traits in all of the various astrological systems...you are at liberty to search them out for yourself, if you find the subject at all interesting. Your quite feeble rationalization of the full moon phenomenon, is oh so predictable....once again, go ask emergency workers in any hospital....and isn't sex always better at full moon?....I've always found it so.
John your rationalization of the full moon phenomenon, is predictable, I think we need research to establish if your claim re sex being better at a full Moon is a fact ... I wonder how many folk should be surveyed....millions or billions.
