Let the Seller Beware

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

I made a big mistake trusting an IIS member. I allowed the member to take an item (adapter) for trial on the proviso that if it met their need payment would be made otherwise the item would be returned if deemed not suitable. Well the joke is on me...no payment and no item. You get a false sense of trust on IIS that all members are honest. My mistake.

[gaseous (Patrick)]

If you've exhausted all avenues trying to contact them, maybe it's time to name & shame?

[Imme (Jon)]

Originally Posted by gaseous

If you've exhausted all avenues trying to contact them, maybe it's time to name & shame?

Agreed.

Terrible form

[raymo]

The sooner the better, before he/she cons someone else.
raymo

[Nikolas (Nik)]

Name and shame we need to be warned

[Wavytone]

Name and shame, on the basis for that if they complete the deal in reasonable time you’ll request this thread be deleted.

That much is fair and the next step - if any - is entirely up to them.

I’d also suggest the IIS Classifieds have a “Sinners” blacklist where those who don’t do the deal are listed for all to see. This should include those guilty of:

- questionable offers from persons with postcounts under 10;
- downright insulting lowball offers,
- those who respond to an ad but stuff the seller, ie do not follow through,
- sellers who do not respond in a timely manner,
- sellers who mis-represent what they are offeting, eg the items are defective or have been stripped/substituted/dismantled and not in the condition described.

The only question remaining is that in order to have some semblance of fairness, once on the blacklist, how can someone get themselves off the blacklist ?

[JA]

Sorry to hear about your woes Hans. You are a nice guy to deal with for purchases and don't deserve that. Hopefully the person will see the error of their ways and do the right thing.

Best
JA

[garymck (Gary)]

Name them, or at least threaten them with naming. I've only ever had 1 issue on IIS. That was when purchasing a scope that was patently not as advertised from a person in Sydney. The threat of naming was the only reason they gave a refund....

Gary

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by Wavytone

....
I’d also suggest the IIS Classifieds have a “Sinners” blacklist where those who don’t do the deal are listed for all to see. This should include those guilty of:

- questionable offers from persons with postcounts under 10;
- downright insulting lowball offers,
- those who respond to an ad but stuff the seller, ie do not follow through,
- sellers who do not respond in a timely manner,
- sellers who mis-represent what they are offeting, eg the items are defective or have been stripped/substituted/dismantled and not in the condition described.
....
The only question remaining is that in order to have some semblance of fairness, once on the blacklist, how can someone get themselves off the blacklist ?

I think there at least 4 other questions on top of that, and they relate to each of the first four "blacklist qualifiers". I can see endless debate about when these criteria are actually met, especially the first two. The 5th, "goods not as advertised" would seem the only one that can be called with reasonable accuracy.


I do support the idea of a system where both sellers and buyers are informed of a given user's track record and community credentials, but care must be taken not to shame unwarrantedly.

[FlashDrive (Poppy)]

Originally Posted by gaseous

If you've exhausted all avenues trying to contact them, maybe it's time to name & shame?

Agreed also ...

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

It's a sad affair....
We are a small tightly knit community who share the same love of astronomy,
a family.....
Honesty and mutual respect are part of the fabric.
I hope the individual involved sees this thread and rectifies the situation.

[xelasnave]

May I suggest a reminder to them as sometimes folk forget ...maybe the cheque is in the mail even...if no response I believe it is your duty to let others know if we have a con man. I am not entitely in favour of putting together a group to break legs ...oh heck why not con men need to be taught not to be bad.
Alex

[Wussell (Russell)]

I would go for naming and shaming, especially if all avenues of resolution have been exhausted. Some of the equipment on here sells for a tidy sum, and the last thing anyone wants is to part with their hard earned only to find it is not what was advertised, or to just be duped.

[m11 (Mel)]

I am sad to hear that has happen to you Hans.

I have found everyone to be trustworthy and easy to deal with.

I think N1 has a good suggestion about users's track record or standing to assist whether you deal with someone if you dont know them.

[Kunama]

Sorry but not surprised to hear that Hans.
Hopefully it is a case of mistake. Unfortunately the system seems to allow some to break the terms of service with no consequences.
I have been lucky so far, having bought and sold lots of stuff on the forum, only one member has blatantly lied about the items he was offering to sell me.
Unfortunately that member seems to be allowed to stay on the forum no matter how many times he misrepresented item condition.....

Hope you get this sorted...

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by Kunama

Sorry but not surprised to hear that Hans.
Hopefully it is a case of mistake. Unfortunately the system seems to allow some to break the terms of service with no consequences.
I have been lucky so far, having bought and sold lots of stuff on the forum, only one member has blatantly lied about the items he was offering to sell me.
Unfortunately that member seems to be allowed to stay on the forum no matter how many times he misrepresented item condition.....

Hope you get this sorted...

I think that may be because said person pays for advertising. No matter, the good with the bad. The necessary evil if you will.

I too have only had one deadbeat (despite the never ending mountain of low-ball offers, usually by new accounts, low-post counts etc). Everyone else has been wonderful, both buying and selling. Sometimes we change our minds, or circumstance intervenes, but so long as we let the other party know - or attempt to - then all should be good. To ignore or blatantly lie is yet another can of worms, especially after receiving or sending items.

[sheeny (Al)]

Guys.


There will be no blacklist.


IceTrades are offered for the benefit of members, but IIS has NO part in the transaction.


I also refer you to the Terms of Service:


http://www.iceinspace.com.au/tos.html


Specifically:

2. Respect

• Please show respect for others in the community, as you would expect to have respect shown to you.
• Please avoid posting something that is intended to cause a reaction. Don't call people names or attack them or their character.
• No racial slurs will be tolerated.
• Think before you post. Think before you press submit. Re-Read the original post and read your reply before posting.

This applies equally to buyers and sellers.


and this next little bit aims directly at things like blacklists:

When discussing a vendor, be careful about what you post as it can be easy for comments to be taken the wrong way and a vendor may take offense. In general, remember to be specific about your experience or opinion, don't generalise and don't play judge and jury. Think and re-read before pressing submit.

9. Liability

• The thoughts posted by any IceInSpace member are their own, and do not necessarily reflect the thoughts of the IceInSpace Administrators or Moderators.
• You agree, by participating in this forum and enjoying the benefits of same, that any exchanges between members in any thread and any Private Messages are matters between such individual members for the purposes of any legal obligations that might arise, such as allegations of defamation or statements and representations (such as in the Buy, Sell and Trade section) which may constitute misleading and deceptive conduct under the Trade Practices Act or similar legislation. The administrators and moderators of this forum cannot be held liable for the free actions and posts of members. For abundant caustion, it should be noted that by taking on a moderating role, the administrators and moderators expressly do not take on any responsibility for the content of any contribution or post that any forum member may make.
• Please note, that because of the threaded conversation-like nature of discussion boards, we reserve the right to refuse a users request for a mass delete of their own posts or a deletion of their account. This includes images and attachments. That is to say, at the time that a member posts any contribution on the forum, they immediately waive all claims of copyright over that work for all time in relation to such contributions appearing on the IceinSpace forum, but not otherwise.
• By registering to the IceInSpace Forums, or by being registered and participating in the IceInSpace Forums, you agree to the guidelines posted above.

and finally

10. IceTrade Classifieds Terms of Service

• Persons holding out items for sale shall be truthful in their description of items for sale, and shall not be indemnified by the administrators or moderators of the site in respect of any claim that a purchasor may have against such vendor under any trade practices or sale of good legislation.
• The administrators and moderators expressly have no liability for the transactions which may occur between members of the forum, whether through the medium of the IceTrade Classifieds, or otherwise.
• Each forum member who purchases an item off another forum member does so at their own risk, and they expressly waive any entitlement to bring any claim against an administrator or moderator with respect to any such transaction.
• Creating a thread to sell an item on behalf of a third party is not allowed. The seller must register to the forums and list the item themselves.
• Items for sale on ebay or another auction/for sale site must be listed in full in the IceTrade Classifieds. An ad can not simply be a link to another auction/for sale site.
• Ads that are sold, or have had no activity for 2 months, will be moved to the Archives.
• If you've sold your item, please edit the title to include "SOLD". If your ad is older than 2 weeks, contact a moderator to do it for you.
• If you'd like your ad locked or deleted, simply ask a moderator to do so.
• Please don't post replies to someone else's ad unless it's specifically related to the item - that is, if you're asking relevant questions about it, perhaps with a view to purchasing.
• Keep off-topic and spam posts out of the IceTrade Classifieds. It's not going to help someone sell their gear if the threads contain off-topic posts.
• Think before you post - if it's simply a comment or suggestion or similar, would it be best done via a PM or email?
• Items listed for sale which breach any of the conditions above may be moved or removed.
• New members wishing to place ads in the IceTrade Classifieds must be a member for at least 1 month, and have made at least 5 posts in any part of the forum. This does not impact new members' ability to buy items, including replying to threads or sending Private Messages to users.

Above all, remember that IceTrades is no different to any other market place.


Caveat emptor always applies.


Al.

[davidmcbain]

I am surprised that this sort of thing is happening in the Astro community

[torana68 (Roger)]

Originally Posted by davidmcbain

I am surprised that this sort of thing is happening in the Astro community

I have only heard of two issues, one was taken to court, suppose there have been others . Generally people who have been here for years are a good bet.

[CosmicEcho]

Originally Posted by Wavytone

- questionable offers from persons with postcounts under 10;

How can low post counts reflect anything?

It's a real shame when people do the wrong thing. Sorry to hear it mate.