HEIF/HEVC - the beginning of the end for JPEG?

RickS (Rick) · #1 17-07-2017, 11:13 AM

Apple is adopting a new image format using HEIF as a container for HEVC compressed image data. This will add a lot of useful features and the quality/file size tradeoff looks significantly improved too. It's a shame that HEVC is patent encumbered

https://iso.500px.com/heif-first-nail-jpegs-coffin/

sil (Steve) · #2 17-07-2017, 03:55 PM

oh, like JPEG200 was the nail in the coffin for JPEG, and PNG was the nail in the coffin for JPEG? Nope, JPEG is too easy and robust a format to go away, maybe for official iphone camera app users but not many who rely on that.

lazjen (Chris) · #3 17-07-2017, 04:13 PM

Being patent encumbered is going to slow down the adoption a lot too. Bit of a shame as it looks good.

Steffen · #4 17-07-2017, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazjen

Being patent encumbered is going to slow down the adoption a lot too.

That didn't seem to hinder JPEG's adoption.

lazjen (Chris) · #5 17-07-2017, 04:57 PM

I thought that was an open standards thing though? Maybe I'm misremembering.

RickS (Rick) · #6 17-07-2017, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sil

oh, like JPEG200 was the nail in the coffin for JPEG, and PNG was the nail in the coffin for JPEG? Nope, JPEG is too easy and robust a format to go away, maybe for official iphone camera app users but not many who rely on that.

A technically better format with significant marketing push behind it could well be different, but we'll have to wait and see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffen

That didn't seem to hinder JPEG's adoption.

There were several companies that asserted they had patents that were infringed by JPEG and some managed to collect license fees, but I don't think any of the claims that have been finalised were successful.

LZW compression, as used in GIF files, was patented and did cause some grief (IIRC, PNG was a reaction to this). The patent was held by Unisys and has since expired.

Wavytone · #7 18-07-2017, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickS

significant marketing push behind it could well be different

Millions of users of iPhones with current iOS will probably force it - users of pcs that have t updated their OS in a while will discover images and videos emailed from an iPhone don't display.

Only thing I haven't seen yet is a utility to do a bulk conversion of images and videos from old formats to this, to save a heap of space on my drives.

The_bluester (Paul) · #8 24-07-2017, 01:45 PM

I would not be so sure about that.

For non apple users (And Apple users such as myself) the typical response to Apple introducing something new and non compatible with existing software is to roll the eyes and mutter "b#@#y Apple" rather than to rush out and update software.

They would want to be a bit more spectacularly successful than the cut off of flash functionality in IOS because HTML5 was going to replace it in no time. How many years now?

RickS (Rick) · #9 24-07-2017, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_bluester

I would not be so sure about that.

For non apple users (And Apple users such as myself) the typical response to Apple introducing something new and non compatible with existing software is to roll the eyes and mutter "b#@#y Apple" rather than to rush out and update software.

They would want to be a bit more spectacularly successful than the cut off of flash functionality in IOS because HTML5 was going to replace it in no time. How many years now?

In this case there are significant benefits from the new format so that may help with adoption.

Flash was responsible for a huge number of security vulnerabilities, so I didn't regret its passing

The_bluester (Paul) · #10 24-07-2017, 02:46 PM

I won't argue about the lack of merit with flash, but it caused no end of heartburn for apple users when they cut it off arbitrarily which it appeared that half of the internet still used it. It caused about as many error images as Photobucket is currently doing.

My comment about the new image format is more a reflection on apples way of doing things, which often amounts to "Change it and those who don't like it can just lump it"

RickS (Rick) · #11 24-07-2017, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_bluester

My comment about the new image format is more a reflection on apples way of doing things, which often amounts to "Change it and those who don't like it can just lump it"

I'd agree with that...

Wavytone · #12 26-07-2017, 04:43 PM

Users aren't dumping iPhones in droves... so consider it done.

Update your PC's, those who rely on microsoft.

It appears Microsofts act of revenge is to kill Skype on OS X. Hopefully Apple might see the opportunity to unleash FaceTime for windows.

RickS (Rick) · #13 26-07-2017, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wavytone

It appears Microsofts act of revenge is to kill Skype on OS X.

As someone who does several Internet conference calls a day that sounds like a mercy killing

lazjen (Chris) · #14 26-07-2017, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wavytone

Users aren't dumping iPhones in droves... so consider it done.

Update your PC's, those who rely on microsoft.

And for those using Android and Linux? A far greater number than Apple users? I don't mind the tech behind the solution, it's the stupid patent encumbering that makes it very annoying for developers to create solutions for their products without the need for some licence fees or whatever.

Core tech like this should be open source and freely usable.

Camelopardalis (Dunk) · #15 26-07-2017, 05:48 PM

What seems to be lost in this conversation is that this is not something that Apple has created and is foisting on the world. It's something that they're indicating they've signed up for (with their $$$) and will support on their platform in the future.

Any of you who participate in <ahem>downloads already use these technologies. Last time I checked, HEVC/H.265 was pretty commonplace out there.