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  #1  
Old 02-07-2013, 03:00 AM
zoombie
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Milky way viewing location in Sydney

Hi there,
I'm looking to start a tour taking tourists to see the milky way in Sydney. I'm not an astronomy buff and have only recently just saw the milky way myself and was in awe by it.
I'm looking for a location that is a "close" to the Sydney CBD area, accessible via coach and of course provide a great view of the milky way.
I've been to the NSW society of astronomy site in Bowen mountain, it provides a great view but the location is not very accessible via coach.
I went to Wentworth Falls near the blue mountains, there is a look out that is accessible by coach but I don't think the sky there is darker than the Bowen mountain site.
Any suggestions would be welcome.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:27 AM
Wavytone
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There is no such place accessible by coach within 2 hours of Sydney. After 35 years of chasing every dirt road this side of Bowral, Bathurst to the Hunter, if there was such a place stargazers would be all over it, we'd all love a big tar road to a big tar car park in a dark place.

Anything that big will stand out on Google earth and quite simply there isn't one in the national park, apart from:

Euroka, in the national park on the south side of Glenbrook, good luck getting there in any large vehicle. Not very dark.

Govetts leap, and that's hopeless (street lights and fog is frequent).

Mount wilson - cathedral camping ground may be accessible for you.

Lake Lyall near Lithgow.

Rydal, a tiny hamlet on the train line near Lithgow; has a showground with excellent sky, and there's a conference centre of some sort that would love some business.

Lake st Clair camping ground north of singleton is the only place that might be suitable and that means an overnight stay. Pretty good skies.

You could visit all these for a look over 2 clear nights.

Alternatively:

1. Get in touch with local landowners (ie farmers) asking if they'd accommodate this for a fee. Anywhere west of the range from Hartley, and try to get on a hilltop as the valleys fill with fog most nights. When Halley's Comet was visible in 85-6 this is what the Japanese did - a jumbo plane load per day were ferried out to a farm near Bathurst.

2. go to Echo Point, and ask the BMCC if they'd turn all the lights out at Katoomba for an hour when you want. Fat chance, I'd say.

If you do get this off the ground I'd suggest doing what a couple of resorts do - take a knowledgeable astro guide, one or two decent telescopes and several pairs of binoculars for people to get a good look. Especially if the planets are up, bright galaxies or a comet - you'll get requests very quickly.

By way of example this is one of the attractions at Mt Cook, in NZ where they do exactly this.

Last edited by Wavytone; 02-07-2013 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:49 AM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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If you are taking tourists, I would suggest organising paid visits to registered astronomical societies for insurance purposes. Taking paying customers to places in the dark without proper precautions is thwart with problems. Formal societies like ASNSW, whom run Mt Bowen, and the like, have dedicated dark sky sites that are more suited to accepting large parties, and would have plenty of knowledgeable members willing to help out. You would also be helping those societies improve their facilities with a proper commercial arrangement. Different societies have facilities all around Sydney, such as the Belanglo State Forest, which is also a couple of hours out of Sydney. That site is run by the Macarthur Astronomical Society. You'll find other Societies in the "Our Community" heading in the left margin.

For what you are asking, I wouldn't recommend any site that is not property of an Astronomical Society. They certainly will have the facilities you are looking for to deal with a coach.

I am all for commercial enterprise, but not for exposing people to risks in the dark.

Last edited by mental4astro; 02-07-2013 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:02 PM
zoombie
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Mental4astro - I've contacted the ASNSW, they said that they are a non-profit society and suggested that I go to a commercial society. I had a look at the society that are out there, I don't think there is one that is suitable. There are some society that are pretty close to Sydney CBD area but the sky will not be dark enough to look at it with your own naked eyes. Safety and insurance is a must, I'll have insurance regardless of where we go to.

Wavytone - Thanks for the suggestions, I will look into it.

Anyone else have other suggestions?
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:19 PM
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mental4astro (Alexander)
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What a curious thing for the ASNSW to say! Not for profit? What's that to do with anything? How does that preclude you using their services & facilities???

Ask the MacArthur Astro Society. Their dark site is at the Belanglo, but they have a closer site Camden way: http://www.macastro.org.au/home/

The Sutherland Astro Society is another you may like to contact: http://www.sasi.net.au/ . They too have a couple of sites.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:19 PM
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Take them to Koolang Observatory at Bucketty - they have full facility and roadworks to handle coaches and the sky is almost as dark there as much further west if you look at the night sky light pollution maps. Even a bit closer to Sydney on the same road , Mangrove Mountain has a sky good enough for a pretty spectacular view of the winter Milky Way - there is a sports oval there . If you talk to the council you might be able to get them to shut the light off .

Even here in Berowra in the Kuringai National Park only 35 km as the crow flies- when the Milky Way culminates at 2 or 3 am it can be pretty darned spectacular on a crisp clear night . Some proportion of light pollution is due to local area lighting so it helps to be surrounded by bush.

I remeber back in the early 80's we had some power blackouts that blacked out the whole of Sydney and from Artarmon I could see the Magellenic Clouds clearly naked eye - amazing .
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mental4astro View Post
What a curious thing for the ASNSW to say! Not for profit? What's that to do with anything? How does that preclude you using their services & facilities???
Why exactly should ASNSW members who are volunteers have to deal with regular busload of tourists brought by commercial business when they are already busy showing the sky to 15 to 50 interested locals every clear 3rd quarter Moon ? I don't find it curious at all.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:33 PM
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I don't think Koolang is operating/open anymore?
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:18 PM
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Mike - the website doesn't mention anything about it being closed ?
http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~demc...0_overview.htm
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman View Post
I don't think Koolang is operating/open anymore?
Pretty sure it isn't, I have tried before.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman View Post
I don't think Koolang is operating/open anymore?
Koolang was for sale. From their web page as of today:

"4 SALE - after 20 years of operation (well 18 but who's counting) Koolang Observatory is up for sale. Any one interested should contact the Observatory on 41 2 4998 8216 and leave a message."

There was a post on IIS in 2011.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:38 PM
zoombie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchmo View Post
Why exactly should ASNSW members who are volunteers have to deal with regular busload of tourists brought by commercial business when they are already busy showing the sky to 15 to 50 interested locals every clear 3rd quarter Moon ? I don't find it curious at all.
I wrote to them with the intention of a partnership with monetary compensation involves but they weren't interested.
Thanks for all the suggestions, I will investigate them all.
One more question, in summer, the sun stay out longer, is that means the view won't be as good as it is in winter or do I just have to stay up later?
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2013, 12:59 AM
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Just stay up later,
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:14 AM
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And mossies and snakes!
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  #15  
Old 03-07-2013, 09:42 AM
Wavytone
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Originally Posted by zoombie View Post
One more question, in summer, the sun stay out longer, is that means the view won't be as good as it is in winter or do I just have to stay up later?
The biggest variable - and it's going to defeat you more often than oblige - is the weather. I don't quite see how you think you can have people booking in advance for a tour, when the likelihood of it being a total failure is quite high due to cloud, wind, rain or fog. And you can't be reasonably sure of this - ie if its go/no go - until 6 hours before setting off.

Few people will have the patience to spend 5 hours being driven up and back for a dud night to see nothing. Many of us here have done that, but only because we're fairly committed to this hobby.

You only have to look at the success rate for the nights people have planned on this forum over the past few years, which can be summed up as follows:

- most of us aim for the Saturday night nearest new moon; so 12-13 per year.
- of these specific nights the success rate is at about 4 good nights per year in the blue mountains.

Which means you stand a 30% chance of a good night, the weather will spoil the rest., either partially (anything from high haze, clouds coming and going, fog) to a howling bitterly cold gale, to total overcast or rain.

Last edited by Wavytone; 03-07-2013 at 09:54 AM.
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