#401  
Old 19-12-2016, 12:34 AM
flolic (Filip)
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Great work Filip

Few questions about debayering the sensor? I had a practice go at a broken one (from a broken camera) and while I debayered it I am not sure about the outcome as the sensor (and my DSLR) was already broken.

Did you just scrape the CFA or did you use something like dichloromethane (paintstripper) to soften the CFA?
I tried the dichloromethae method and it worked well but I had issues cleaning the gel-like leftovers. The sensor cleaned OK but the surroundings are covered by it and wiping is out of question because of the gold wires. I covered them by epoxy but some of the ends where it attaches to the sensor surface are still exposed as I did not want to risk getting epoxy on the sensor itself.

Also did you use epoxy to protect the gold wires and did you seal the sensor with the original glass again or did you just leave it open?

Thank you
Luka
Thanks Luka and others!
I soaked sensor surface with Ethyl acetate, that thing will not dissolve the Bayer mask and microlenses, but it will make them much softer. Than I precisely sharpened end of wooden handle of the small art brush and scraped surface under stereo microscope with it (if I remember correctly, under 20x magnification).
Ethyl acetate evaporate very fast, so I was constantly adding it and never let the surface to dry out. That is very important, because as you scrape the surface, small fragments of Bayer mask will migrate through all the liquid, but will not stuck on some other area of the sensor.
I was working slowly from the middle to the edges. Edges are particularly sensitive because there are some very sensitive circuitry right next to the active pixels region that you can (will) kill if you scrape it. Those areas are under blue area, but there are also some narrow strips between active pixels and blue area that you should avoid touching.
The safest bet is to leave some Bayer mask near the sensor edges, but I decided (and succeeded) to clean it to the very last pixel But you absolutely need steady hand, good microscope and adequately sharpened wooden tool for that.

After the whole surface was scraped off I rinsed it with Ethyl acetate and while it was still wet with isopropyl alcohol. Than I blow the alcohol off with compressed air and examined surface under microscope (with highest magnification). Any remaining speck was then cleaned off with sharpened toothpick.
You can then install the sensor in the camera and check is it still working and is it clean.


For me, the hardest part was to remove original cover glass without damaging the sensor. My glass shattered but did not damage surface or any of the bonding wires.
I did not covered the bonding wires in epoxy. Working under the microscope , they are far away and of no concern to me ( but I did cover them few years ago when I was debayering my 450D without microscope).
If you are using regular epoxy there is a risk that it will break wires because it shrinks a little while setting.

I glued new glass on my sensor using UV curable resin.

You will not blow off bonding wires using regular air compressor (cca. 6 bar pressure) At least that's my experience on dozen of different sensors...
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  #402  
Old 19-12-2016, 01:04 AM
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Thank you Filip. The tip about the ethyl acetate is greatly appreciated.
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  #403  
Old 19-12-2016, 01:24 AM
flolic (Filip)
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Ethyl acetate is just something that I had lying around. I suppose there are other solvents more suitable for this job, but I have no experience beside this...
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  #404  
Old 19-12-2016, 02:32 AM
pat30 (Patrice)
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THANK YOU flolic for sharing the technique.
At the moment I test a product on a matrix, the micro lenses were dissolved in a few seconds without rubbing, now it is on the matrix. Unfortunately the electronics of this camera is dead so I could not test.
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  #405  
Old 19-12-2016, 12:56 PM
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wasyoungonce (Brendan)
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Our PCBs.....Luka sent me. He also included a lot of spare parts he had...damn decent of him!

The PCBs are ok, I made thge via holes a little too large but this isn't effecting anything. Just don't mention the missing silkscreen's!

Hopefully in new year...they will be converting photons to electron charges!

Brendan
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  #406  
Old 19-12-2016, 03:10 PM
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Great to hear that the parts finally arrived. Australia Post express took "only" Thursday -> Monday to deliver. I though they were delivering parcels on the weekends during the Christmas period?

I ran my partial Cam86 with a 9V power supply. 3.3V regulator runs at about 60C while 5.5V regulator runs at about 50C. The 6V? regulator is at about 40C. I am not sure if using 6V to feed the 3.3V regulator would work as it may just overheat the 6V regulator.

Also found some 7.5V power supplies here. May not be enough power for the TEC.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I could not find the old posts, is the minimum voltage to run Cam86 7.2V?
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  #407  
Old 19-12-2016, 03:32 PM
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wasyoungonce (Brendan)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luka View Post
I ran my partial Cam86 with a 9V power supply. 3.3V regulator runs at about 60C while 5.5V regulator runs at about 50C. The 6V? regulator is at about 40C. I am not sure if using 6V to feed the 3.3V regulator would work as it may just overheat the 6V regulator.

Also found some 7.5V power supplies here. May not be enough power for the TEC.

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I could not find the old posts, is the minimum voltage to run Cam86 7.2V?
I am guessing the 6V, SOT89 LDO can dissipate more heat more easily than the T092, that's why I thought of the 3.3V T092 from this. Yes its just putting more thru the SOT89 but It should handle it. Just a guess. Also we would really need to do the thermal calcs to determine the 3.3V die temp. My guess is thats it's ok as these regulators thermally shutdown themselves.

Most of the SOT89 LDOs mention 1.7V to 2.0V head room voltage above Vout but DD11 (3.3V LDO) T092 mentions as little as 1.0V above that is Vout + 1.0V to attain Vregulated. I didn't know that!

Same with DD13 the +5V LDO.

So the SOT89 LDOs can generally get away with 1.7V about output and the other 1.0V. So in theory you minimum in could be 7.7V.

All you can do is try! I also read the reference to 7.2V but have no idea where I read it.

Brendan
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  #408  
Old 19-12-2016, 05:55 PM
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wasyoungonce (Brendan)
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Looking thru the parts list....

Jeez those: C17,C30, C33,C38, C46, C47; 100uf 10V (X5Rs) ceramics in 1206 (3.2mm x 1.6mm) formfactor are a bit costly. I've found RS sell them in Pkts of 5 for $12.68 for 25+ units (as cheap as I can find them). We need 6 per PCB so 4 PCBs is 24 units ~ $50 for these alone.

Damn...that's expensive. I think I should have been looking at this more closely as I see I can get 3225 (3.2 x 2.5mm) and 1210 (3.2 x 2.5mm) for ~$18 for a pkt 20 and $15 respectively.

I did not choose wisely. The devil is always in the details. I really need to pay more attention to things like this...it would be easy to place these sizes on the PCB. Sorry gents.

Next iteration.....I'll be on to this more so. Still...I'm looking fwd to getting these running!

Brendan
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  #409  
Old 19-12-2016, 06:53 PM
pat30 (Patrice)
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Luka, yes 7.2V mini.
My CAM work with 7.5V and not problem.
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  #410  
Old 19-12-2016, 08:49 PM
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Pat and Filip, I got the final parts for the Cam86 and I finished the assembly. I was looking to start testing it using cam86-view program like they did on the Ukrainian forums.

Without sensor, do I need to do anything with the sensor pin 19 (output)? Should I ground it or should I ground anything else? I can imagine that leaving it floating won't give me meaningful results.

Thanks
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  #411  
Old 19-12-2016, 09:26 PM
pat30 (Patrice)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luka View Post
Pat and Filip, I got the final parts for the Cam86 and I finished the assembly. I was looking to start testing it using cam86-view program like they did on the Ukrainian forums.

Without sensor, do I need to do anything with the sensor pin 19 (output)? Should I ground it or should I ground anything else? I can imagine that leaving it floating won't give me meaningful results.

Thanks

HI,
With Camview, gain 0, shift 0, speed 0, without CCD this allows to evaluate the electronic noise of the board.
I did it without changing the PIN 19.
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  #412  
Old 19-12-2016, 09:46 PM
pat30 (Patrice)
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I did a debayering test on a dead CCD with "cleaner paint", I do not know if this is the right word in English (paint cleaning product on wall of city).
The microlenses are dissolved without rubbing in a few seconds but harmless on the matrix so I put product to unclog the pipes ( WC and kitchen room) and and it seems that the matrix is gone without rubbing, the electronics of this camera is dead so I can not testing, but Under the microscope (toy of my daughter) one sees well that it is no longer there.

I do not have any CCD to try again but may be an idea to consider if someone wants to do it, we never know!

http://www.webastro.net/upload/image...1482089511.jpg
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  #413  
Old 19-12-2016, 10:48 PM
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Patrice, thank you for the info about the Cam86 settings. I will post some results later, still testing.

Do you know what is the main ingredient of your paint remover?

I read somewhere that dichloromethane will dissolve the CFA and dichloromethane is used in paint removers. Unfortunately the only paint remover I could find also had some gel-like substance which is then almost impossible to remove from the sensor surroundings (golden wires). I removed the CFA relatively easily from a dead sensor but the gel is still on it.
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Old 19-12-2016, 11:30 PM
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OK, all assembled and either I don't know what I am doing or it is not working properly.

Without the sensor I get the noise image (attached). Apart from the vertical line it looks like the ones on the Ukrainian forums.

When the sensor is connected I get the 2nd image. It is just noise and does not change if I expose it to more light. The min/max values do not change even if I change the exposure time.

Any ideas? Is my sensor dead or should I look elsewhere in the circuit?
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  #415  
Old 19-12-2016, 11:57 PM
pat30 (Patrice)
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Try 10ms and post the picture
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  #416  
Old 20-12-2016, 12:13 AM
pat30 (Patrice)
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What voltage DD11 ?
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  #417  
Old 20-12-2016, 12:40 AM
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DD11 = 6V.
Other voltages (-8V and 15V) are fine as well.
10ms and 10sec images are attached.
Thank you for any ideas.
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  #418  
Old 20-12-2016, 12:50 AM
pat30 (Patrice)
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I don't think problem CCD.
check the circuit.
How much Amp ?
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  #419  
Old 20-12-2016, 12:59 AM
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Total current = about 200mA. It goes up to 250mA during the image acquisition.
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  #420  
Old 20-12-2016, 01:44 AM
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Another capture. This time with no sensor and I grounded the pin 19, the sensor output going to the opamp.

It looks quite different. Would this indicate that the ADC circuitry works?
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