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  #1  
Old 19-04-2010, 11:04 AM
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PeterM
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My Discovery? Where Do I Start?

Hi all,

This is long, lots of links, hope it is useful.

Many of us began our amateur astronomical journey from some inspiration, perhaps watching a programme on TV (like me), attending a club meeting, attending a star party, from this site or maybe just having that feeling of wanting to know more about “what’s out there”. Now, maybe more than ever, YOU have the opportunity to help find what’s out there, and be credited with its discovery!

With such good equipment available to amateurs these days many here are now taking wonderful images of the night sky, and it is possible that discoveries can and will be made even when not as part of a structured search. Unknown asteroids present very good examples. Get in the habit of checking your new images against previous ones or DSS reference images (see further down). I know someone who discovered 2 unknown asteroids in images he took while living in Australia for a few months.

In light of the possibilities and to ensure nobody here misses out on what could be an absolute corker of a discovery (a Supernova in the Milky Way or LMC/SMC, a Great Comet, an Asteroid that you may get privilege to name, who knows) has led me to think we now need a My Discovery? – Where Do I Start? sticky under our Astro Science area?

Amateurs are making big discoveries, even in recent years - Anthony Wesley (Canberra) “Bird” - his “Birdstrike” on Jupiter. (Jay McNeil -USA) - McNeil’s object. Andrew Murrell (NSW) - Murrell 1. Terry Lovejoy (QLD), “Comet Guy” - 2 comets. Stu Parker (NZ) “Park123” - 7 Supernova.

You can also get involved at the cutting edge of astronomy – extra planet discoveries, read the thread started by Binofield (NZ) http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=59903

Recently (2008) a 14 year old girl in the USA discovered a supernova that has challenged some of the current ideas on supernova - much less brighter than it should have been, a failed supernova?.

There is just nowhere else that I am aware of that an amateur can contribute to science in such a hands on way - this is absolutely mind blowing stuff! But you may need some help along the way.

There are lots of people on Ice In Space who are more than well enough equipped and capable of being of assistance and the thread below lists many of them, it is a good starting point. I encourage you to see who has “been there done that”.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=54618
Some handy ones to know include - Comets - “Comet Guy”, Asteroids - “AstroJunk” . Supernova - “PeterM” , "Park123” , “Greg Bock”

BUT there are set procedures to report a discovery that must be followed. While it may seem handy to post a potential discovery on Ice In Space seeking assistance, this alone does not guarantee your discovery will be accepted as your discovery and as you now have announced an unconfirmed possible discovery to a wider audience, could be a problem. There is much to be done before announcing a possible discovery. I am not saying don't post it here on IIS, but understand the implications and do some of the basic groundwork first that will give others enough information to help follow up, as you may need to get things moving quickly.
If someone else somewhere in the world reports a discovery in the proper manner and you haven’t then it is probable “your” discovery may only add weight in that it confirms their discovery as reported, (even if you found it before them). Sure, you may get some Kudos, maybe a pre-discovery image or if lucky an independent discovery, but maybe not what you fully deserved. What a bugger that would be – we (BOSS team) have been there done that by the way.

OK I am not the expert on this by any means but want to start the ball rolling. I encourage informed, constructive input on things I will have missed or not got right, so please bear with me.


Read this FIRST (general to all potential discoveries) http://www.supernovae.net/IAUC.htm

How to report a discovery – have a good read of these and the links associated.
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/WhatToReport.html - what to report
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/HowTo...Discovery.html - how to report a discovery.
Specifically read and understand this - especially “what are some common mistakes”
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/DiscoveryInfo.html

The Minor Planet Centre - much information on what to do and what NOT to do.
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/mpc.html
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/cbat.html

50 Most recent CBETs (Central Bureau Electronic Telegrams - the most recent releases of discoveries, advices etc.) These have to be subscribed to in order read them but they do give a small amount of recent information that can be useful. I think ASNSW members can have access to the CBETs contents as part of the membership fees? But please double check this.
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/cbet/RecentCBETs.html

General Catalogue of Variable Stars (GCVS) – this allows searching of fields for known Variable Stars
http://www.sai.msu.su/groups/cluster...bin/search.htm

Supernova Discoveries – these pages are useful with much up to date information on objects already discovered.
http://www.rochesterastronomy.org/snimages/ - up to date (within a day or less) of recent SN discoveries
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/lists...upernovae.html - complete list of all SN discoveries going back over 100 years. Not always right up to date, maybe a few days out.
http://www.supernovae.net/remarks.htm

Minor Planet Checkers - Use these to input the co-ordinates, catalogue number etc of an area of sky you wish to search for known minor planets.
http://scully.harvard.edu/~cgi/CheckSN
http://scully.cfa.harvard.edu/~cgi/CheckMP


Digitised Sky Survey – Download images of objects you are interested in comparing/checking (i.e. Galaxies) or a specific RA & Dec you are checking, to use as a reference i.e. “object not visible on the Red Digitised Sky Survey “
http://archive.stsci.edu/cgi-bin/dss_form


Some bits of general advice,

Don’t send anything to the Minor Planet Centre, CBAT, IAU etc until you have checked your facts and got confirmation and don’t send them images - they don’t want them unless requested, always send any email to them as PLAIN TEXT ONLY. Absolutely seek assistance from other IIS members.

If at all possible try not just to use "it’s left of / right of " to describe an objects position on your image, North, South etc are better, or perhaps as some have done a blinked image is more helpful in identifying what you are referring to. Drawing circles may help identify the object in question but still leaves the work of getting a position to someone else, not a big issue so long as they have further information. If you can measure the position (RA & Dec – specify the epoch) as best as you can of your suspect object - even a very close guestimate at this early stage is better than nothing, include this when asking others for assistance. But this should not deter you either, if you need help ask.
A magnitude and how you arrived at it helps. The time of the observation as accurate as possible also helps. Your location.

When sending or posting images on IIS seeking assistance in the confirmation process, a FITS image (if possible) with telescope, camera details, image scale is very useful. A contact number always helps (pm this).

Understanding decimal time is handy as many discoveries are reported and announced this way.
At 8pm tonite it would be reported as 2010 04 19.416 or 2010 Apr 19.416
The .416 is arrived at by -
8pm, local time = 10hrs UT, Simply divided 10hrs UT by 24 = .416


DO GET EXCITED that you may have discovered something, it is an adrenalin rush. DON'T BE DISAPPOINTED if it turns out to be nothing or a known object, as you have made your start and gained valuable knowledge.

Ok it’s a start; no doubt more will be added. Please if I have missed anything or stuffed anything up then let’s get it noted for others to use.

There is a lot in here I know, it is actually much easier than it looks and sounds to get your discovery reported but there are no prisoners taken and if you don’t report your discovery properly it is possible it might not even be read or followed up.

Good luck!

PeterM.

Last edited by PeterM; 20-04-2010 at 04:01 PM. Reason: clarity
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  #2  
Old 19-04-2010, 11:41 AM
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DavidU (Dave)
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A sticky?
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  #3  
Old 19-04-2010, 11:46 AM
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Hi Peter,
Thankyou for posting this. I'm sure a lot of people just starting out on this wonderful journey of Astronomy will find this useful.
I agree that IIS needs something like this as a STICKY and perhaps even a recognised form(s) included to make the logging a whole lot easier.
I know in my case if i found something on images taken i would be lost as to where to report it.
Whilst i realise CBat don't want to be bombarded with false reports surerly it can all be simplified to a certain degree.
Apparently they used to have a form but since changing their setup these have not been upgraded so not acceptable (read in one of the links )

This is only an opinion from an absolute beginner.
An excellent article and one i hope will be followed up on.
Many Thanks,
Duncan
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  #4  
Old 19-04-2010, 01:58 PM
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acropolite (Phil)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
A sticky?
Good idea done for now at least.
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  #5  
Old 19-04-2010, 02:24 PM
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Thanks Peter.
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  #6  
Old 01-02-2011, 09:18 PM
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Hi all,

Much has changed since I presented the above information, which is now pretty much outdated along with some of the links having changed or no longer available.

In short CBAT have changed the way in which Possible Supernova are reported. The suspect object is now noted as PSN- Possible SuperNova and given a PSN number as you will see in the link
http://www.rochesterastronomy.org/snimages/

The PSN will not be given an official designation i.e SN2008fa (a type 1a event) until a spectra has been taken confirming that it is indeed a Supernova. The new process makes a lot of sense with many new suspects coming from the likes of Galaxy Zoo etc.

I will present more on the new process a little later (soon.... after BOSS next discovery and we actually use the system) but in short there are several processes to follow starting with checking the Transient Objects Confirmation Page and The Confirmed Transient Objects Page see- http://www.cbat.eps.harvard.edu/unconf/tocp.html
http://www.cbat.eps.harvard.edu/unconf/tocp_old.html

New links also for -
CBAT (Central Bureau Astronomical Telegrams)
http://www.cbat.eps.harvard.edu/
MPC (Minor Planet Centre)
http://www.cbat.eps.harvard.edu/

PeterM

Last edited by PeterM; 05-02-2011 at 11:25 AM.
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  #7  
Old 01-02-2011, 10:59 PM
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AstroJunk (Jonathan)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM View Post
Much has changed since I presented the above information,
Well the foul weather hasn't!

Keep up the great info Peter - Sooner or later we will convice those photographers that making a real contribution to science is more rewarding than taking the 5 billionth image of the orion nebula.

Even after the worst year I have ever had for astronomy I managed to get my name in the Washington Double Star catalogue and make an (unconfirmable) asteroid discovery.

And if you aren't in to the thrill of the chase, then Variable Stars South need dedicated observers NOW to help professional astronomers gather data...
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  #8  
Old 08-09-2016, 01:46 PM
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Early this year saw the process of reporting Supernova and some transient discoveries change yet again.
This time to an automated system called The Transient Name Server, allowing for the massive amount of data automated professional surveys are now and will in future be presenting. It also assists in lessening inevitable duplication of discovery. Many surveys have adopted the new system but some seem reluctant to....

Below is the intro blurb to TNS along with links to the TNS, The Bright Supernova Page and the ever useful Minor Planet Checker & Variable Star Checker.

The Amateur Supernova Hunter times are changing/evolving as they did from the visual discoveries by the great Rev Bob Evans to the CCD searches from the likes of BOSS and others to the point now that we use our telescopes/computers to confirm images taken by more highly organised groups like ASASSN http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/...in/index.shtml

The science of Astronomy moves on and as such so should the role of the amateur, whom I believe still has an important part to play albeit in a different way.



"As of January 1, 2016 the Transient Name Server (TNS) is the official IAU mechanism for reporting new astronomical transients such as supernova candidates. Once spectroscopically confirmed, new supernova discoveries are officially designated a SN name (of the form SN 2016A and so on, as before).

This is a continuation of the IAU naming scheme for supernovae which was handled by the Central Bureau for Astronomical Telegrams until the end of 2015, and has been approved as the official IAU naming scheme by the IAU Executive Committee from 1st January 2016.

Variable stars, including in particular Galactic nova candidates, should be reported in the same manner as before. Please do not submit reports regarding such objects to this web application.

This service is provided by the IAU supernova working group, free of charge to registered users, who can also choose to receive automated email alerts regarding new discoveries."

https://wis-tns.weizmann.ac.il//

http://www.supernova.thistlethwaites.com/snimages/

http://www.minorplanetcenter.net/cgi-bin/checkmp.cgi

http://www.sai.msu.su/gcvs/cgi-bin/search.htm

http://www.aavso.org/vsx/index.php?view=search.top&ql=1

Last edited by PeterM; 08-09-2016 at 02:57 PM.
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