#41  
Old 02-05-2012, 04:00 PM
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traveller (Bo)
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Learnt a lot reading through this thread.
I am doing some research into ccd cameras and QHY8/9 is currently on top of list.
Thanks again for the info and Theo's prompt responses.
Bo
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  #42  
Old 02-05-2012, 07:47 PM
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Logieberra (Logan)
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QHY8 Pro owner here. It's fantastic. Yes, I did get 'fog' forming on the glass CCD chamber window (visible when you look inside the tube) but this is easily corrected with a properly spaced dew heater strap.

After speaking with Theo I tried two things: bring the dew heater strap as far forward as possible, and also obstruct the fan intakes a bit (I did that by running a velcro strap around the intake openings and reducing intake by approx 50%). This makes the peltiers a little less effective and transfers warmth through the system as the electronics 'naturally' warm up. These steps made all the difference. Dewing / fog issues fixed.

I've heard the issue described as follows, which made perfect sense to me:
- CCD chamber with gas cooled to -15 deg (or there abouts);
- glass CCD chamber window contacting the outside air temperature (eg +25 deg); and
- warm summer night air (+25 deg) hitting the -15 deg chamber window = 40 deg change!

Of course the CCD glass chamber window will fog!~
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  #43  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:19 PM
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Logan, other cooled CCDs like my QSI don't have the problems reported here. Seems they've sorted out a way for it to work Without having to put dew straps on it or other DIY mentioned
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  #44  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:45 PM
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Agreed mate, but at 2 - 3 times the price I would hope so Happy to use a $15.00 dew strap to remedy this one.
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  #45  
Old 04-05-2012, 11:47 AM
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troypiggo (Troy)
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I don't think my QSI was 2-3 times Peter's QHY8Pro, but even so I'm glad I may have paid a touch more and not lost all of the imaging time and mucking around he's had to do to get a camera that performs at cooled temps. I also get the impression that on his model a $15 dew strap won't solve it.
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  #46  
Old 04-05-2012, 11:55 AM
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Got precisely the same 'tube style' model Above steps solved it for me anyways...
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  #47  
Old 04-05-2012, 12:04 PM
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I did read somewhere about opening the CCD chamber inside a sealed plastic bag (well as sealed as possible anyway) and blasting a particular gas into the bag followed by quickly closing off the chamber. Would this help? Theo, any ideas on the procedure and drawbacks if any? What gas would one use? Cheers.
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  #48  
Old 04-05-2012, 12:43 PM
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Ignore my last post, Peter and Mill both discuss the 'Argon Fix' above. Looking toward to your report Mill.
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  #49  
Old 04-05-2012, 12:57 PM
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Well the latest update is that QHY didn't send a replacement nosepiece and gasket. Theo says he doesn't think the new front ends will fit on my camera and I need to send the camera back to China. This is a bit of a surprise given what's been said in previous threads.

http://qhyccd.com/ccdbbs/index.php?topic=3010.0

I suspect I have a similar issue as you can see a gap in the glue that holds the front window in place at the bottom of the attached image.

Having spent a week on the QHY help site I have experienced the huge language barrier. Their recommended fix for the leak was that I should apply vaseline to the threads on the nosepiece before assembling. If the new front ends don't fit my camera I'm now not feeling very confident that QHY will resolve this properly. I don't need to send it to China to put vaseline on threads.

I can wrap a dew heater around the front end of the camera and block the cooling fan inlets and glue bits of dessicant inside the nosepiece and put vaseline on threads to try to make up for the seal not working properly however these are all "ghetto" patches and should not be necessary on a camera that is advertised as having an argon filled sealed chamber no matter how much it cost.

Reducing the peltier cooling fan efficiency by blocking it with velcro sounds like a recipe for disaster. You are effectively transferring that heat back into the back of the camera which it the very thing the peltier is trying to cool. Peltier units can easily be damaged and replacing them is not going to be a small job. If you watch the peltier output % reading I'm certain you will see and increase when you block the fan inlet as it tries to keep the temperature setpoint - I see this with the dew heater on the front of the camera.

So I'm left contemplating my options. I'm pretty disappointed and feel like I'm back to square one.
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  #50  
Old 04-05-2012, 01:47 PM
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Here's another interesting thread!

http://qhyccd.com/ccdbbs/index.php?topic=2206.0

Not sure why I'm having so much trouble getting a replacement front?
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  #51  
Old 04-05-2012, 03:37 PM
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Must say that I'm surprised that Theo doesn't uphold his end of the bargain with a camera that is still under warrantee and with a fix that QHY himself has offered to other people. If the camera is still under warrantee then if the manufacturer has offered replacement parts to fix that problem then it's up to the dealer to do it and not the purchaser.
It's the history of Qhy that you have to look at. Their first camera was plagued with a plethora of drivers etc that drove owners nuts to load the correct ones and it was utter confusion until they got their act together. Then the QHY8 was basically lifted from Nikons that were cheap and a peltier cooling system attached. The qhy8 were having gross problems with icing up in the chip as well as the front face so they developed the heater and silica gel strips to get over that. But what good camera manufacturer would seal it with a rubber bung that must be removed to dry out the camera? The qhy8 also had a real problem with internal reflections off the IR filter such that you had to move it 30-40mm out from the front plate so that it did not become noticeable.
Most of these fixes were implemented by owners at their expense and time and finally the dealer/supplier did something about it.
This problem with moisture in the chamber continues to plaque QHY cameras and it's a manufacturing/dealer problem and not something that a purchaser should have to fix. It smacks of more like a cottage industry than a serious camera manufacturer to me. I've owned several cameras from different manufacturers and never had or seen the problems shown on the QHY site in relation to water in the system.
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  #52  
Old 04-05-2012, 04:58 PM
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Lets get some facts in it shall we.
First, the warranty (Local) has expired a long time ago. But i am STILL taking Peters camera in as a "Local warranty", as i believe he is entitled to it considering his circumstances.
I have offered to send it back to the Factory to get fixed correctly, rather that muck about with it here like Peter said.
QHY has not declined, nor backed down from any issues.
I also found out the reason they never sent the front end of the cameras is because there are 3 different version of them. So which do they send and i get ?, only the factory can tell correctly.
The first QHY-8 Pro did have some issues with the odd person or two. Considering theres hundreds out there doesnt mean all users have this issue.
There is obviously an issue with Peters, and the fact that it was 2 years later, does make it awkward because of the extra versions and changes made. But, as i said, there is a fix, and it needs to go back to get looked at, and fixed properly.
As far as Rastas comments are concerned,

1, Doesnt own nor owned one.
2, can only read and of course add his engineering knowledge to his comments.
3, the same comments were made for the QHY-9 3 years ago, and we know what happened there.

The cameras do not continue, as you "Guess" to have moisture issues. You will be suprised, many moisture issues were caused by users opening up the camera, loosing the Argon, and not sealing it back correctly. The newer designed bodies and chambers like the QHY-8L, 10, 12 and the newer 8 Pro are very well made.
Simply taking the odd issue of the QHY forum doesnt justify your simplification of it.
I wonder how many posts there were on the Sbig when there 8300 dew issue hit them just like the QHY-9. Its hippocritical to splurt out your "Obvious" one sided look, and make no point that Sbig had to redesign it with a similar heated window, and retrofit all the others.
Further, the the ST2000 and 4000 and the 1100x mdels also suffer from CCD moisture, but you obviously didnt know that. I could go on and on. But lets just say, there is more than one manufacturer that has similar issues.
Its because QHY make NO, and i stress NO action to remove negative comments. Go and try this with others forums from other manufacturers.
Again, you make arm chair assumptions as i do uphold my end, and freakin more of the bargain (Even at my cost and time).

Lastly,
The original post asked for "QHY 8 Pro Owners", not arm chair engineers.

Peter, i have made my request as to what to do.
I can do no more than what we discussed.
Your one of the odd case with internal fogging, and may even well be a hair line crack within the aluminium housing. But until its received and fully looked at, it will just be speculation.
As said, i dont have the fancy equipment to make vacuum measurements like the factory, so lets get it fixed.

Enough said.

Theo
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  #53  
Old 04-05-2012, 05:49 PM
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I don't understand the reluctance to provide a new front for the camera here. Both Theo and Dr Qiu have recommended this course of action to other QHY8pro users on the QHY forum. I've been in touch with one of them today and he was provided with a new front end. I expect I'll hear the same outcome from the other one over night.

If there are three different front ends why not provide the details (diameter and thread size/pitch) and I'll check the dimensions of what I have so the correct one can be sent - I have the necessary equipment to do this.

I'm a qualified engineer!
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  #54  
Old 04-05-2012, 06:23 PM
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Further to my previous post I'd like to set the record straight re warranty. The camera was purchased new from Theo on 4 May 2010 so it is celebrating it's second Birthday today.

I've been working with Theo on resolving this issue since February 2011 and have followed his advice re Acetone, Dessicant and Argon all while the camera was still under the one year warranty period. None of these measures have fixed the problem. This is all documented in the attached thread:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...t=argon&page=2
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  #55  
Old 04-05-2012, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_4059 View Post
I don't understand the reluctance to provide a new front for the camera here. Both Theo and Dr Qiu have recommended this course of action to other QHY8pro users on the QHY forum. I've been in touch with one of them today and he was provided with a new front end. I expect I'll hear the same outcome from the other one over night.

If there are three different front ends why not provide the details (diameter and thread size/pitch) and I'll check the dimensions of what I have so the correct one can be sent - I have the necessary equipment to do this.

I'm a qualified engineer!
I can tell you the reluctance Peter.. It may NOT be a front end problem.
We then have wasted more of your time, and of course, would make you more frustrated.
Again, the best course is to have it looked at properly. The last message i got from QHY, was that it may be within the body itself. Hence, lets get it fixed once, and not bounce it back and fourth.

Theo
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  #56  
Old 04-05-2012, 08:19 PM
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As much as im sounding like a ass....

Dude if the camera has been having issues that long, give it back to theo, get it sorted job done issue fixed.
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  #57  
Old 04-05-2012, 08:22 PM
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I'm prepared to take that chance Theo based on my engineering judgement.

If QHY provide the dimensions and thread details for the three different front ends I'll check mine out to see which one fits.

Alternately they can send all three and I'll return the two that don't fit at my expense.

Kind Regards,

Peter
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  #58  
Old 04-05-2012, 09:30 PM
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You've certainly got patience Peter. If it were me I would have launched the thing back to china in a catapult a year ago
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  #59  
Old 05-05-2012, 09:59 AM
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Peter,
I agree with Brendan, sending it back is the prefered choice.
But, Its your decision, just be aware, that it may not be the front as you hope and this may further the delay to get it fixed properly. But, I'll get what you need with the details i have from you. I'll further this via email with you.

Theo
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  #60  
Old 05-05-2012, 10:56 AM
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Thanks Theo - look forward to hearing from you.

Peter
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