Change to LRGB

[johnnyt123 (John)]

Guys you have all been incredibly helpful.

I have decided in getting the qsi as stated earlier with uncounted filters.
Now just need to raise some funds as this is $2000 more than what I initially had budgeted.

But thank you all very much once again.

John.

[johnnyt123 (John)]

Alright I went to Bintel Sydney and spoke to Micheal about what i was looking for. and this was his hand written quote:

OPTION 1: FILTERS FITTED AT QSI
QSI 683wsb-8 with C-mount on OAG $5,200
upgrade to 31mm unmounted filter wheel $70
Unmounted filters:
Astronomik filter set LRGB from QSI $459
Astronomik Ha filter from QSI $249
Astronomik OIII filter from QSI $249
Astronomik SII filter from QSI $249

That comes to a total of AU$ 6,475

The above filters would be installed at QSI during assembly in clean room.
A cheaper option was to order the filters separately from Bintel which would cost:

OPTION 2: Filters bought through Bintel
Astronomik filter set LRGB $379
Astronomik Ha filter $198
Astronomik OIII filter $198
Astronomik SII filter $198

This option comes to a total of AU$ 6,200

I would then have to install the filters myself and risk leaving finger prints on them and introducing dust into the filterwheel and camera assembly.

Now i did a comparison if i were to buy everything directly from the suppliers QSI and Astronomik


From QSI:

QSI 683wsb-8 with C-mount on OAG USD $3,990
upgrade to 31mm unmounted filter wheel USD $50
Unmounted filters:
Astronomik filter set LRGB from QSI USD $299
Shipping charge: USD $ 386.60

Total cost from QSI: USD $4,866.60
at current exchange rate of 0.92 comes to: AU$ 5,293.81
+ 10% GST: AU $5,823.23

From Astronomik:

Astronomik Ha filter from Astronomik 139 Euros
Astronomik OIII filter from Astronomik 139 Euros
Astronomik SII filter from Astronomik 139 Euros
shipping charge: 9.9 Euros

Total cost from Astronomik: 426.9 Euros
at current exchange rate of 1.43 comes to: AU$ 609.96
(No GST on this as it is less than $1000)

so total cost if bought from supplier: AU$ 6,433.19

This means a grand saving of:
OPTION 1: Unmounted filters fitted at QSI: AU$ 41.81
OPTION 2: Unmounted filters bought through Bintel and fitted by me: AU$ -233.19
(cheaper to buy straight through Bintel)

So I guess its a no brainer. Bintel have quite a reasonable price.
The only question i have left is "should i go for the option of having the filters installed by QSI or should i place them in myself?"

Thanks for reading...

John

[frolinmod]

Have QSI place them. Simple as it may seem, I've heard too many horror stories related to people messing this up.

[johnnyt123 (John)]

I heard you can get finger prints, smudges, dust,but what else can go wrong?

[naskies (Dave)]

Regarding your import calculations: you won't get the spot exchange rate, e.g. my bank (CommBank) charges me the equivalent of 1.9 cents below the official rate. Furthermore, you haven't included customs brokerage fees for shipping on top of GST (anywhere from $100 to 5% of the total). It appears that Bintel is the way to go

Originally Posted by johnnyt123

I heard you can get finger prints, smudges, dust,but what else can go wrong?

Is the filter wheel "sealed" from the outside environment / rest of the OTA? If not, then you will get dust in them eventually anyway.

[Paul Haese]

Fitted my own filters. I bought the LRGB via Bintel with the purchase and I bought the narrow band later. Fitting them yourself will not stop dust from getting on the filters. As soon as you open the nose piece dust will get into system, so you will still have to do flats. Finger prints are easily rubbed off too, the coating on the filters are very hard. Choice is yours though. Maybe investigate getting mounted filters. I have those and get no vignetting to speak of on my f5.6 system. As stated you can go to f4 and not get any vignetting. You could buy the filters a bit cheaper from the states too. Buy the camera from Bintel, their service is worth that little bit extra and then the filters from OPT or the actual manufacturers.

[johnnyt123 (John)]

I am still tossing up between the QSI683 or the QHY9.
there is a saving of $2500 if i purchase the QHY over the QSI with essentially the same filterwheel and filters and OAG setup albeit it isnt integrated with the QHY and the filters are a little further away from the CCD chip than the QSI. can the vignetting be overcome by using 50mm filters rather than 31mm filters if the filters are a little further away from the CCD Chip?

John

[alocky (Andrew lockwood)]

Originally Posted by johnnyt123

I am still tossing up between the QSI683 or the QHY9.
there is a saving of $2500 if i purchase the QHY over the QSI with essentially the same filterwheel and filters and OAG setup albeit it isnt integrated with the QHY and the filters are a little further away from the CCD chip than the QSI. can the vignetting be overcome by using 50mm filters rather than 31mm filters if the filters are a little further away from the CCD Chip?

John

Your next consideration is then how much weight your focuser will manage, and how much back-focus is available. The larger filters will eliminate the vignetting at that point, but make sure your OAG pickup is in front of, and not behind (ccd side) the filters, particularly for NB.
Cheers,
Andrew

[stanlite (Grady)]

John, I believe you might be referring to my setup as the QHY9 setup that is cheaper ... the Advatages of the QSI over mine is it is quite a bit lighter i believe and it is also all one unit so less compatibility issues that might arise.

Also the filters in my setup is 36mm not 50mm as they are cheaper. I chose them for my setup as they as are the same distance as the plus 1 or 2mm as a sbig 8300 setup. So vignetting shouldn't be an issue but i will see once i get some clear skies.

[johnnyt123 (John)]

Grady since you showed us your clever setup I have been thinking outside the box.

The qsi set up I am interested in is the one with the 8 position filter wheel. They are 31mm filters and can produce vignetting at f-ratios less than f4.
Larger filters will stop vignetting (so I have heard)

So I have been considering mixing and matching my own set up and I have come up with the following:

QHY9

Apogee 9 Position Color Filter Wheel - 50mm Round
http://www.optcorp.com/ai-afw50-9r-9...0mm-round.html

Starlight Xpress Slimline Off Axis Guider
http://www.optcorp.com/starlight-xpr...is-guider.html

Now the question is whether these elements can be combined together and with which adapters?

[Peter.M]

You may be reading into the vignetting of the filters in QSI cameras a little too much. The WO 110 scope you claim to want to use with it is far above the f2 ratio even with a reducer. If the only reason you want to go below f2 is for lens work I can tell you that the working distances that QHY give you will not be sufficient to mount a lens. The QSI cameras do have a face plate that will allow a camera lens to be mounted on it. The other massive consideration is that if you are planning on using that 9 position filter wheel with the QHY9 you will need new focusers to hold that weight. You may need new focusers to hold any of these cameras in their stock form.

[johnnyt123 (John)]

Hi Peter.

The WO Megrez 110mm with the 0.8 field flatterer brings it to f4.76 so its close to the f4 at which vignetting with be noticeable.

I also just purchased a Meade f3.3 focal reducer for my C8 and CPC925.
and i intend to also make use of that setup so in that instance vignetting could be an issue and i am no good at doing flats. my images look worse off after i include flats so i would rather avoid having to do them.

Also i have a Moonlite focuser with high res stepper motor that is very sturdy installed on the CPC925.
the focuser on the WO Megrez is also very solid. It performs well with my current camera the Orion Starshoot deep sky colour images Ver2, even with a 2" 2x Barlow.

I am just trying to find the most economical setup here. I was sure on the QSI683wsg, but if i can essentially build a setup that will be cheaper and give the same if not better results then that would be great.

Thanks again

John

[alocky (Andrew lockwood)]

What problems are you having with flats?
The pixinsight tutorial on producing calibrated flats is excellent- even if you don't use the software. Even without vignetting, which you will always get to some degree in any optical design, you will want to do flats because of the inevitable dust spots.
If you can take lights, you can get flats!
Cheers,
Andrew.

[Peter.M]

Originally Posted by johnnyt123

Hi Peter.

The WO Megrez 110mm with the 0.8 field flatterer brings it to f4.76 so its close to the f4 at which vignetting with be noticeable.

I also just purchased a Meade f3.3 focal reducer for my C8 and CPC925.
and i intend to also make use of that setup so in that instance vignetting could be an issue and i am no good at doing flats. my images look worse off after i include flats so i would rather avoid having to do them.

Also i have a Moonlite focuser with high res stepper motor that is very sturdy installed on the CPC925.
the focuser on the WO Megrez is also very solid. It performs well with my current camera the Orion Starshoot deep sky colour images Ver2, even with a 2" 2x Barlow.

I am just trying to find the most economical setup here. I was sure on the QSI683wsg, but if i can essentially build a setup that will be cheaper and give the same if not better results then that would be great.

Thanks again

John

Ok, I don't think any of the setups mentioned here will have any problems with the WO scope. As far as the others are concerned I think you will find that the Meade 3.3 reducer will vignette the kaf8300 regardless of what size filters you use. I read that the 3.3 reducer vignettes even st7 chips that are far smaller than the 8300.

Don't get me wrong I have a qhy9mono with the 5 position filter wheel and its a great camera for the money, I just think that if I had my time again I would have spent the extra money on a more integrated system.

[johnnyt123 (John)]

Originally Posted by alocky

What problems are you having with flats?
The pixinsight tutorial on producing calibrated flats is excellent- even if you don't use the software. Even without vignetting, which you will always get to some degree in any optical design, you will want to do flats because of the inevitable dust spots.
If you can take lights, you can get flats!
Cheers,
Andrew.

Andrew my problem with flats is that I don't have a well evenly illuminated target to point the scope at and get good flats. It's usually dark by the time I setup the scope and when I take flats from any light source the resulting flat image is not typical vignetting pattern.

Peter.
I am still considering the qsi 683wsg and the fli 8300. But the value of the qhy can't be overlooked.

John.

[Geoff45 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by johnnyt123

Guys you have all been incredibly helpful.

I have decided in getting the qsi as stated earlier with uncounted filters.
Now just need to raise some funds as this is $2000 more than what I initially had budgeted.

But thank you all very much once again.

John.

Quality remains long after price is forgotten. QSI is a good choice.
Geoff

[johnnyt123 (John)]

Now i am considering the FLI Microline KAF8300 counterpart....

aaaaaah...this never ends.....

Is the FLI truly superior to the QSI and worthy of spending $8200 for with a 7 position 2" filter wheel?

[JohnH]

I cannot speak for the FLI vs QSI not sure that is how you should go - but if you have taken the budget constraints off there are also Moravian and Apogee in the mix, perhaps Atik and Stalight Express as well. These decisions are hard - you need a few stakes in the ground to make your choice - a balanced budget is one - there is little point in having a great ccd with a poor mount or bad optics. You will need to consider weight - how is your focuser? Backfocus - space for filter wheel? Focal reducer, OAG etc. Will you ever want to go for AO (Sbig or Starlight Express are the go if you are)....there is no one right answer here. Write a list of features, rank them and then score the candidates against each - top result wins. Best of all have a look at the results folks are getting with the kit under consideration - caerfeul in the Yahoo groups people only tend to post when they have a problem but you will get an idea of service quality and reliability.

Originally Posted by johnnyt123

Now i am considering the FLI Microline KAF8300 counterpart....

aaaaaah...this never ends.....

Is the FLI truly superior to the QSI and worthy of spending $8200 for with a 7 position 2" filter wheel?

[johnnyt123 (John)]

alright everyone.

another twist, but the final one... I hope

If you had to choose between :

FLI Microline KAF8300 or;
Apogee Alta F8300

both with 2 inch 7 position filter wheel and astronomik LRGB, Ha, OIII and SII

which one would you choose. There is not much difference with the price of these 2 cameras.

[alocky (Andrew lockwood)]

Honestly- and here's my thought process - a 16803 chipped microline isn't *that* much more expensive than the 8300, so I figured I'd get that next, but get a QSI 8300 while I waited for new technology to appear...
Unless you can put an image from the cheaper system next to one from the more expensive one and tell them apart, you should probably look for the best compromise between cost, and fitness for purpose. For me, that was QSI. You may have other metrics, but all anyone can do for you now is justify their own choice...
The samuraii used to consider any decision that took more than seven breaths to be not worth deciding on. However - they had some ideas that probably don't mesh well with our current world...
Cheers,
Andrew