Skywatcher Synscan Polar Alignment Routine

Startrek (Martin) · #1 03-02-2020, 11:40 AM

I’m interested to know how many members use the Synscan PA routine to Polar Align their Skywatcher mounts. I’ve been using this method for over 3 years with great results
Since progressing from a HEQ5 to an EQ6-R Mount my PA is taking less time with less iterations and with less error. I Last week I nailed my PA in 10 minutes with only one iteration and low error.
The EQ6-R mount is so much more responsive and accurate for PA than my HEQ5 in all conditions
I use BYEOS with my Canon 600D on live view with the PA align screen which has an illuminated reticle. I de focus the alignment Star into a donut for more accuracy.I bought a 2m curly cord for my hand controller so I can sit at my outdoor laptop weather proof workstation next to the mount and comfortably perform my PA

Comments and feedback welcome

Hemi · #2 03-02-2020, 10:08 PM

Hi Martin, I’ve been using both the skywatcher SynScan and celestron ASPA routines for about 2 years. They are both very good in my opinion. I prefer the celestron version slightly, just because it allows you to adjust azimuth and elevation at the same time. I find it’s easier do8ng it that way rather than each axis in turn.....both are more than accurate enough for me. If I’m hooked up to a pc and camera then I ultra fine tune using a software called pempro. I’ve just installed a pier, so am hoping not to have to do it very often at all.

Clear skies

Hemi

Outcast (Carlton) · #3 03-02-2020, 10:41 PM

I agree Martin,

I see all the threads on here about PA woes & often wonder 'Why don't you just use the PA routine on your handset'.

I've been using the Celestron version on my CG5 & achieving as low as 2 Arc seconds of error after only two iterations...

I now own an AZEQ6 & whilst it's now a two step mechanical process, it looks just as easy as the Celestron routine & pretty much what I plan to use until such time as I get my RPi/Stellarmate/EQMod/Camera's connection & integration going & then, I'll see what I do to achieve PA... only because I'm not sure how it all fits together yet...

I really don't see what all the issues with PA are that people have... biggest challenge I ever have is being careful enough with the initial setup/line up Nth/Sth of my tripod..

Hemi, I'm with you in my experience with the Celestron routine however, someone explained to me the other day, if you were by chance using a PA star close to zenith; it would be hard to discern whether it was altitude or azimuth you need to adjust... Not that I plan to use a star near zenith for PA but, it gave me pause for thought over the way Synscan approach it...

Cheers

Hemi · #4 04-02-2020, 12:35 AM

The very slight thing about the skywatcher routine is that your initial plonk down needs a bit more accuracy, otherwise being only able to adjust one axis makes centering the star more difficult, and an iteration or two longer.

I bought a star sense for my evolution mount a long while back, but had always planned on eventually getting an AZEQ6, so I got the SW version. Now I use that with my AZ EQ6, and so the control box essentially converts it to a celestron mount....and ASPA! Not required, but pretty cool.

Startrek (Martin) · #5 04-02-2020, 08:03 AM

Thanks guys for your comments
Yes the Synscan is an excellent method of PA if your set up is via a Laptop near the mount or wifi via iPhone of tablet. I started over 3 years ago the old primitive way using an Orion 20mm 70 deg illuminated reticle eye piece and it was a bit of a headache looking and adjusting bolts etc...
PA is a breeze now with my current set up
One important thing with Skywatcher Syncan is to choose ( where possible ) your PA star near the south meridian line above 30degrees and below 70degree in Altitude and no further away than 20 or 30 degrees in Azimuth obviously on both sides of the meridian. Ryan Jones jogged my memory early last year when I couldn’t get my error down after 4 or 5 iterations, so he suggested using a stat near the meridian like Acrux and

Startrek (Martin) · #6 04-02-2020, 08:58 AM

Cont......
my PA error greatly improved. In the beginning I used PA stars all over the night sky on the same side of the meridian and my error varied so much
Now this method is a key factor in good PA results
I don’t know why the Synscan user manual doesn’t mention to use a PA star close to the polar side meridian ( in our case south meridian) You achieve good PA every time with minimal iterations
Thanks

Outcast (Carlton) · #7 04-02-2020, 10:42 AM

I tend to conduct PA on a star as close to Celestial South Pole as I can & also, as readily identifiable as I can...

Where I live, Southern Cross is not always visible all year round but, when it is, I have a tendency to use Acrux everytime..

If not visible, I choose something else distinct & as close to the South & at about 40-45* elevation. My thought process is I'm trying to get lined up with South Celestial Pole... might as well pick something I can see & recognise &, as close to SCP as I can.

doppler (Rick) · #8 04-02-2020, 05:26 PM

I'm with Hemi, the best mod I've done to make polar alignment painless is to put the mount on a pier, so much more stable and with a couple of alignment marks on the top, most times I don't even worry about alignment tweeks, just bolt the mount and ota on, plug in the laptop and start imaging, just have to wait for the monsoon season to finish so I can do something.
Rick

Hemi · #9 04-02-2020, 05:36 PM

Ditto re the monsoon Rick....I suspect Carlton might be in the same boat!

Startrek (Martin) · #10 04-02-2020, 08:37 PM

I guess the minds on season for you northern guys would be similar to our current fire ravaged areas in NSW and Vic.For you guys cyclone damage and cloudy nights and for us fire damage and smoke filled nights ??

Anyway back on the topic of the Synscan Polar Alignment routine , during an advertisement or promo for the new Skywatcher EQ8-R and EQ8-Rh , Dylan O’Donnell mentions that the Synscan polar alignment routine is just as accurate as PA using a Pole Master via the polar scope. The difference being Pole Master with camera adapter costs around $550 and the Synscan PA costs almost nothing as comes with the hand controller. Pole Master needs a laptop but Synscan does not necessarily need a laptop as you can use a $75 eye piece

Pole master apparently has excellent reviews and is extremely popular whereas very few people talk about or review the Synscan PA routine which has been around for 10 years or more

Any thoughts on the above ?

Hemi · #11 05-02-2020, 12:16 AM

I’ve never used a polar scope, or drift aligned. Always just the handset routines. Ive always assumed that ultimately those methods were more accurate, as the advanced imagers tend to recommend them. Pem Pro is a sort of automated drift alignment. I’m 80% visual and 20% EAA, so more than sufficient for my needs. The longest I’ve run a subframe for live stacking has been 2m unguided, and the stars were pretty tight, more usually 10-30s.

Outcast (Carlton) · #12 05-02-2020, 12:32 AM

Good news...

Clear skies in Cairns tonight...

I mean, it's 26 degrees & 87% humidity but, it's clear & I'm imaging...

PA via Synscan handset... 90 second subs unguided...

Just keeping it simple tonight... it's been a few months since I've been able to do this what with surgery & recovery...

I think I'll just keep using the Synscan PA routine... it's free (kind of) & it works...

Startrek (Martin) · #13 06-02-2020, 03:50 PM

I guess even with an uncovered permanent pier you may have some slight movement in Alt and Az when you bolt the mount head onto it and therefore throw your PA out slightly ???
I set up a tripod each time but have a true south line scored along the ground ( pavers ) to align my tripod
I used the solar noon shadow method 3 years ago to find true south and scored a permanent line along my pavers at my 2 locations. This line is pretty darn close as I usually only need very small adjustments in Alt and Az to polar align
I originally bought an expensive Silva compass with magnetic declination and using this to find true south was a fat waste of time , it was so far out compared to my solar noon shadow true south line ( I sold the compass to a bush walker )

For those who may be interested, I have a procedure saved to use the solar noon shadow method to mark a true south line under your tripod ( it’s only useful if your location is on a reasonably flat level hard surface like pavers, tiles or concrete etc... obviously won’t work on grass or gravel etc... )
Cheers