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Old 12-03-2017, 10:29 AM
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Considering a dedicated AP Camera over DSLR

Hi all, I need to pick some of your brains again. Currently I'm using a DSLR (Canon 70D) and I love it. No complaints really apart from perhaps the increased noise levels with stacked subs from summer sessions. All of my pics are taken from my light polluted backyard and not a dark site. I use a basic light pollution filter which does a good enough job I think, however now I feel that it's time to perhaps move over to a dedicated AP camera with filters and all the other little bits and pieces that may be needed for a humble but sound setup. This one has caught my interest.

https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com...mm-c-mini-kit/
https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com...asi1600mm-kit/

My questions are:
1. Would this be an upgrade or sidegrade from my DSLR setup?
2. Are these package deals any good or should I just get the camera and purchase the wheel/filters separate?
3. Do better options exist out there within this price range?

My main reasons for considering this camera are:
1. Within my budget (may stretch a little depending on options).
2. Has cooling.
3. It's mono.
4. Can be used for both DSO and planetary (although planetary isn't too important but nice to have).
5. Lots of other people seem happy with it.

I'm a little lost when it comes to AP cameras and setups so please be gentle.
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:26 AM
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Merlin66 (Ken)
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Hmmm
Start at the beginning...
What telescope and mounting do you currently have???
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:51 PM
glend (Glen)
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Assuming you have been taking astro photos with your DSLR, and you have some kind of EQ mount that can track, get the ASI1600. It will perform well with short subs in light polluted environments, very low noise. Good narrowband camera as well, for later on.
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:03 PM
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Sorry Merlin I probably should have provided some more details. I'm currently running off of a NEQ6 Pro, 130mm APO triplet with a Canon 70D guided by a QHY 5L-II Mono. All controlled by the ASCOM platform and running the following software: EQMOD, Stallerium, PHD and APT. Possibly looking at moving onto Maxim DL down the track but for now I just need to take baby steps and concentrate on one thing at a time.
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:13 PM
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Yes I have Glend and like I said I am quite happy with it. I'm not considering moving away from DSLR because I'm not happy. I'm moving away because I feel like I'm beginning to outgrow my current setup. I'm sure that even if I get an AP camera I may still find my way going back and forth between the two.
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Old 12-03-2017, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostInSp_ce View Post
Yes I have Glend and like I said I am quite happy with it. I'm not considering moving away from DSLR because I'm not happy. I'm moving away because I feel like I'm beginning to outgrow my current setup. I'm sure that even if I get an AP camera I may still find my way going back and forth between the two.
A dedicated camera is WAY more hassle when you are used to a DSLR. You have to provide image storage, power supply as the camera is really dumb and does not have a memory card and battery in it. So you need a computer at your setup. There are no iOS or Android apps for these cameras, unlike for DSLR, which you can easily control and view its photos by a tablet or smartphone.

You can better upgrade to a full frame body and the 6D is the best option as it is reasonably affordable (A$2000 body) And buy one or two extra batteries with it ($120 each). It has less noise and dark current than the 70d.
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Old 12-03-2017, 06:50 PM
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ASI1600 mono is a great choice

It's a big step up from your DSLR performance wise and using APT is no more complicated to use than your Canon - you just need to factor in the filter wheel and filters and setup your imaging plans in APT according.

I also use a Canon 6D and in the Queensland summer the 1600 leaves it for dead. FOV is nothing when it's full of thermal noise.
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:04 PM
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Thanks Skysurfer. I should have mentioned that I already run things from a remote setup on a computer. I don't mind hassles at the beginning provided that in the end they are worth it. I have considered the 6D but I'm wondering if it'll be more of a sidegrade than an upgrade for astrophotography. I also understand that I will need filters and probably some other bits and pieces with a dedicated AP camera but to be honest I don't mind tinkering with things if they're worth it.
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:07 PM
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Camelopardalis, I did post some links with packages that I'm considering and would like to know if they are any good or should I just get the camera and search for a different wheel/filter kit?
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Old 12-03-2017, 09:51 PM
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I have no experience of other electronic filter wheels but the ZWO just works. If you're interested in narrowband - and living in the city, I would be - then get the 8 slot.

The only thing I don't like about the ZWO filters themselves is that the OIII band only seems to be covered by the green filter and little by the blue, which is different from other deep sky filters. This means that the expected turquoise ends up mostly green. Aesthetic only of course, but personal taste and all that.
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Old 13-03-2017, 09:36 AM
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I would like to do narrowband later on but not until I actually understand what I'm doing with an AP camera. I'm guessing that the green colour is something that can easily be corrected in post? If not, could you just use a different brand filter for that wavelength or is mixing brands not a good idea?
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Old 13-03-2017, 10:09 AM
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Base on your equipment profile, I'd say you are ready for the ASI16000mm-c kit with LRGB and NB filter set. (I am in a similar situation at the moment)
Assume you are getting good guiding already of course. Will you be shooting at home or somewhere where there is mains power? TEC cooled camera can draw a bit of current, depending on ambient temp, so you need to bear that in mind.
The other program I have been researching is Sequence Generator Pro, which a lot of members here use, a bit cheaper but seem to be fully functional. There is a free 30 day trial version as well.
Hope that helps.
Bo
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Old 13-03-2017, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostInSp_ce View Post
I would like to do narrowband later on but not until I actually understand what I'm doing with an AP camera. I'm guessing that the green colour is something that can easily be corrected in post? If not, could you just use a different brand filter for that wavelength or is mixing brands not a good idea?
Yes, it's correctable to a certain extent. I worked for me with the Tarantula but not for the Helix. I probably did something wrong.

My eyes are set on a different filter set where blue and green filters overlap the OIII band.

Narrowband is just what it says...narrower pass bands than either RGB filters or visual filters. There's no black magic involved...it just allows us to hone in on certain emissions, especially from the city. It's not a bad idea to wait it out and get to grips with it first, as narrow band filters can be pricey, but equip yourself with the slots in the EFW to save having to change or supplement it later (this is my ONLY regret with the ZWO 1600 setup, but I bought mine before the 8-position EFW was available)
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Old 13-03-2017, 01:04 PM
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Between those two I'd definitely go the 8-positon over the 5-position. When you eventually go down the narrowband path, you don't want the headache of having the change filters from the filter wheel.

As for MaximDL, it depends on what you're wanting to do. In many ways I do prefer MaximDL over Sequence Gen Pro BUT if you are wanting to quite easily be able to set up automated sequences, SGP is much easier. MaximDL either requires you to get other software to do the controlling for you or you learn scripting.
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Old 13-03-2017, 01:57 PM
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Thanks guys I was thinking the same thing regarding the filter wheel. The old 'buy once not twice' philosophy would be the better way to go.

traveller my guiding isn't perfect but it's more of a ball than an egg. I tend to get low long waves (sine like) as opposed to high short spikes (sawtooth like) when guiding. I do have an EQ6 wedge on the way that I'm hoping will help fine tune polar alignment (my fingers are shot from the stock bolts). If I do decide to get the camera I'll download the trial and see how I go. With the extra work added by filters, it would be nice to be able to streamline elsewhere (reason why I was looking at Maxim DL). However, SGP might be the answer.
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Old 13-03-2017, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atmos View Post
Between those two I'd definitely go the 8-positon over the 5-position. When you eventually go down the narrowband path, you don't want the headache of having the change filters from the filter wheel.
Is there a 8 position FW Colin? I thought they came in 5 or 7's only?
Bo
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Old 13-03-2017, 02:30 PM
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It's an eight hole filter traveller, here's the link.
https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com...B3or-7-x-36mm/

Four for LRGB, maybe use three for Narrowbands then one for something else I'm not sure what but hopefully someone can tell us.
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Old 13-03-2017, 03:01 PM
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Of course, 8x1.25" OR 7x36mm...
I am still inclined for the 7x36mm version, in case I get my 10" f4 going....
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Old 13-03-2017, 03:05 PM
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The extra filter space is designed for the mounting of a transmission grating (SA200 seems to be the favourite)
You can then practise some real science with your existing set up ;-)
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Old 13-03-2017, 03:07 PM
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The extra filter space is designed for the mounting of a transmission grating (SA200 seems to be the favourite)
You can then practise some real science with your existing set up ;-)
Good point!
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