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Old 10-02-2020, 04:38 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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ZWOASI071MC and new ZWOASI2600MC

Looking at making the jump from DSLR to cooled OSC Camera mid year and have been spending time reviewing various forums and reviews etc...
Looking at either the ZWOASI071MC ( proven performer ) and the newly released ZWOASI2600MC
Specs for both cameras below -

ZWO ASI071MC Specs

APS-C crop sensor
Sony IMX071 CMOS sensor
16 Mega Pixel
Resolution 4944 x 3284 pixels
Pixel pitch 4.78uM
Sensor size 23.6mm x 15.6mm
Diagonal 28.4mm
Full well 46,000e
Read Noise 2.3e
Bayer Pattern RGGB
ADC 14bit
Weight 640gm
Diameter 86mm
Regulated 2 stage TEC cooling
QE 50%

ZWOASI2600MC Specs

APS-C crop sensor
Sony back illuminated IMX571 CMOS sensor
26 Mega Pixel
Resolution 6248 x 4176 pixels
Pixel pitch 3.76uM
Sensor size 23.5mm x 15.7mm
Diagonal 28.3mm
Full well 50,000e
Read Noise 1.0e to 3.3e
Bayer Pattern RGGB
ADC 16bit
Weight 700gm
Diameter 90mm
Regulated 2 stage TEC cooling
QE 80%

Looking at the specs, the 2600MC is technically superior on paper but unfortunately there are not enough reviews as this camera has only been out 2 months
The image scale on my scopes would be as follows ( similar to my DSLR ) -
6” f6 newt with 071MC 1.09 arc sec per pixel
6” f6 newt with 2600MC 0.86 arc sec per pixel
8” f5 newt with 071MC 0.98 arc sec per pixel
8” f5 newt with 2600MC 0.77 arc sec per pixel

I intend to use APT for frame focus and capture
My 6” newt is used in Sydney under Bortle 7/8 skies
My 8” newt is used at my weekender south coast NSW under Bortle 3 skies
Obviously DSO imaging only with these cameras

I’m still going to use my DSLR but only during the winter months

I’m treading into new territory here with a cooled OSC Camera and will have to get experience through trial and error with things like exposure time , gain settings and offset Etc...
PS: I’m a ZWO man through and through as I’ve been using ZWO guide cameras for a number of years and want to continue the relationship

Any advice on the above most welcome
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2020, 05:04 PM
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The_bluester (Paul)
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This is one of the first ASI2600 images I have come across. https://www.astrobin.com/full/qoy3js/0/

I am currently waiting for more images to make a decision between an ASI2600 or digging a much bigger hole in my pocket with an ASI6200 (Probably mono, just to make the hole that much deeper again) as my hopefully soon to arrive scope has a 43mm image circle compared to a 43.3mm diagonal on the ASI6200. I plan to track down an M48 format adapter for my wife's full frame Nikon D3 to see if it really does cover that kind of diagonal nicely first.
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Old 10-02-2020, 05:19 PM
PaulSthcoast (Paul)
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Hi Martin,

do I sense that perhaps you are about to move on from`Beginner` status ?!!

Paul.
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Old 10-02-2020, 06:39 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Paul ( The bluester )


Glad I'm not the only one considering the 2600MC.Its a big investment but worth the plunge if its as good as ZWO claim it is. Yes, need to wait for some more results over the next few months ( Usually Cloudy Nights is a reasonable litmus test ) Thanks Paul



Paul ( South coast )


I'm still a beginner Paul and it will take some time to master the cooled OSC camera anyway

Maybe in a couple of years if I'm game enough I might post in the Deep Sky Section ? Who Knows ?

How are you going with your AP set up ?

Next time Im down at the house we might catch up again in town ( A bit busy at the moment , trying to get my 92 year old Dad into Aged Care , not easy )
Cheers Paul
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:34 PM
RyanJones
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Hi Martin,

I’m glad you’ve brought this topic up. I’m also looking to go OSC too around the same sort of time as you know. I’m set on the 071MC simply because I’m stretching myself already to fund that but I’m insistent on an APSc sensor as a minimum. I’ll be watching this thread more so to see if there’s any reason why I shouldn’t buy the 71.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:14 PM
Jackstar
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Hi Martin,

I have been looking to move forward into a dedicated OSC and decided the O71 was the go for me and my set up.
I currently use the modded canon 40d that I bought from the classifieds.
My scopes are the Orion EON 115, f/l 805 mm f7.
And the explore scientific ed80 480mm f6
With this I think will get 1.22 arc sec/pixel for the Orion and 2.05 with the Es ed80

I have been reading this:
http://https://www.atik-cameras.com/...to-break-them/

I have been aiming to stay in this 1-2 arc sec per pixel as I have little experience in any of this.

I see that your arc seconds per pixel are much lower and wonder whether I was over thinking it.
Have you taken the arc seconds per pixel into your decision and purposely aimed at close to and below the 1?

I too will be interested in the discussion

Jack
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Old 11-02-2020, 06:43 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Jack
Thanks for commenting
My existing image scale with my Canon 600D APS-C sensor is 0.88 and 0.98 arc sec per pixel respectively so both proposed OSC cameras are similar in sampling or over sampling to be correct
Over sampling has worked for me to date ( I’ve been imaging for just over 2 years ) and it’s only when seeing and transparency is really poor I have some issues with my images. The biggest issue I have with my DSLR is noise during the summer months or even warmer nights in spring and autumn. The cooled OSC Camera should eliminate this issue. The DSLR has been a great camera and still is (I will still use it ) but I think I’m ready to make the upgrade later this year
I keep things simple that’s why I use Newtonian reflectors for imaging , plenty of aperture and good focal length , although I would like to push my FL to 1200mm but that’s another story
Thanks again and I hope other Astrophotographers can chime in with comments
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Old 11-02-2020, 07:09 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Ryan
Thanks for your comments, hoping there are a few more DSLR prime focus users looking at an upgrade to cooled OSC cameras too
Martin
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Old 11-02-2020, 07:27 AM
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Depending on the camera, binning may be an option if you are excessively oversampled, for instance my ASI294MC Pro still produces a colour image when binned and if I put it back on my SCT at some point it will be oversampled so I may give binning a try there. I never went as far as doing that in the past as I jumped in to short focal length imaging and I am at the other end of the scale, undersampled with about 2.6 arc seconds per pixel. In my case I can use about 5 minute subs so I shoot loads of subs and use a drizzle process in Astro Pixel Processor to recover some resolution that way.

edited to add, the only real issue I know if with the 071 is the sensor package is apparently quite prone to frosting (Not just the ZWO camera apparently, more or less any cooled cam using that chip) and you need to ramp the cooling power up slowly to avoid it. I am finding my 294 is doing similar at the moment so I may have an air leak into the sensor chamber.
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Old 11-02-2020, 04:20 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Paul,
One of the first things I do after stacking in DSS and start my processing, is use the Binning module in Startools which trades of a bit of resolution to improves SNR
Default is 50% binning
Other options are 25% and 71% which I’ve tried but don’t use
This process works really well at my image scale and scales down the image to a workable file size too

Martin
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Old 11-02-2020, 05:54 PM
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Love my 071, can't comment on the other. And there's an ASI071 up for sale in the classifieds. Cheaper than a new one.


Disclaimer: it ain't mine.
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Old 11-02-2020, 06:43 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Chris
Thanks for posting
Are you able to give us some more of your AP details with the 071MC
Scope
Mount
Guiding set up
Focal length and Image scale
Filters
Capture software
Gain and offset settings for various targets in Sydney
Cooling temps

Don’t t give any trade secrets away ok

Cheers
Martin
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Old 11-02-2020, 07:17 PM
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Most of my nonsense from the asi071 is here
https://www.astrobin.com/users/ChrisFC/

I use both an 8" F5 gso and and 80mm F5.9 WO refractor on a CGEM mount. I think the imaging scales are about 0.9 and 1.6 arcsec/pixel. I particularly like it with the newt.
Guiding 50mm zwo guidescope, phd2.
Capture with SGPro. I use the standard unity gain setting this ascom.
With a UV/IR filter the optimal sub length is 60-90sec (to swamp read noise). Can share my spreadsheet calculator for this.
With the STC duo filter I use 6 min subs, although longer is probably better on some targets.
I used to cool to -5C. But now just to 0C. It doesn't need as much as CCD sensors as the dark current noise is so low.

For processing I don't use bias frames. Not needed!
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Old 11-02-2020, 07:41 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Chris
Thanks for the info, fantastic
A great help for us DSLR to Cooled OSC converts
Martin
PS: nice images on Astrobin too , great work well done !!
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Old 12-02-2020, 07:13 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Chris
I have an 8” f5 newt as well , what adapters , extension rings etc did you require between the camera and the 2” focuser barrel to allow you to focus ?
Also I use a Baader MCCP Mk 111 coma corrector with my DSLR and will use it for the proposer cooled OSC as well. The coma corrector would have a bearing on what adapters and extension rings I would need to achieve focus ?

Appreciate any advice on back focus with the cooled OSC

Thanks in advance
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Old 12-02-2020, 08:15 PM
PaulSthcoast (Paul)
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Thanks Martin

Paul ( South coast )


I'm still a beginner Paul and it will take some time to master the cooled OSC camera anyway

Maybe in a couple of years if I'm game enough I might post in the Deep Sky Section ? Who Knows ?

How are you going with your AP set up ?

Next time Im down at the house we might catch up again in town ( A bit busy at the moment , trying to get my 92 year old Dad into Aged Care , not easy )
Cheers Paul[/QUOTE]



Hi Martin,

yes would love to catch up when you are down next, all going to plan I will be in a better position to get out and about.

I`m eager to get out and put my gear to use.

A few clear nights might help !!

Hope all goes well with Your Dad.

Keep in touch,

Paul.

Last edited by PaulSthcoast; 13-02-2020 at 11:52 AM. Reason: this seemed in sensitive to those effected by recent events
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Old 13-02-2020, 07:45 AM
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It's simple - the zwo cameras come with two solid T-spacers. Baader into the 2" focuser barrel of your newt, then two T-spacers, then camera. Gives the correct spacing.

There's two spacers. One can be replaced with a filter wheel, the other with an oag.
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Old 13-02-2020, 07:49 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Chris
Thanks for the advice
Martin
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Old 13-02-2020, 09:13 AM
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I'm sure the 2600 will be similar with spacing if you go with that. It does look like a nice camera !
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Old 13-02-2020, 10:05 PM
Startrek (Martin)
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Chris
Thanks I did check the ZWO website and it shows the configuration for back focus
Looks like a fantastic camera on paper
Quantum Efficiency around 80%
Smaller pixels and more of the them so higher resolution ( obviously dependant on seeing conditions )
16 bit
Almost no amp glow
Lower dark current
Deeper well depth

But all the above comes at a price !!

I’ll just play the waiting game and review any comments posted on various forums over the coming months
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