Go Back   IceInSpace > General Astronomy > Astronomy and Amateur Science

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #21  
Old 05-12-2011, 08:01 AM
SkyViking's Avatar
SkyViking (Rolf)
Registered User

SkyViking is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waitakere Ranges, New Zealand
Posts: 2,260
Incredible, that is certainly a bright one. Congratulations to Stu and the team for bringing us so many new supernovae. Great work!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-12-2011, 08:03 AM
Colin D
Registered User

Colin D is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Bock View Post
HI guys,
I thought that I'd take the opportunity to highlight the benefits of working as a team here.
Both Pat Pearl and myself have been in France and the UK for work since the 1st of December, so we are basically out of the loop to discover or assist in the process of confirmation and reporting due to time difference constraints.
However, that didn't stop other BOSS team members from helping out. Colin used SLOOH to get the confirming image and also draft the report to CBAT to ensure that Stu's discovery efforts paid off. And, he did that with all the usual demands of very young family. So, well done Col, as usual, you went out on a limb to ensure that everything went smoothly.
Thanks Greg. Always happy to help the BOSS team with astrometry and reporting to CBAT. The SLOOH confirmation image can be found here http://www.flickr.com/photos/snimages/6452361963/
Thanks to David Bishop for posting on his Latest Supernovae page http://www.rochesterastronomy.org/snimages/
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-12-2011, 08:30 AM
madbadgalaxyman's Avatar
madbadgalaxyman (Robert)
Registered User

madbadgalaxyman is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 936
Continuing on from my previous post, galaxies which have hosted multiple type 1a supernovae are rare.
M84 and NGC 1316 are examples.
But is it possible that this 'rarity' is an illusion caused by the fact that people don't include big E & S0 galaxies in their SN searches???

Some have ascribed the existence of a high rate of occurring type 1a supernovae in a galaxy to the presence of a substantial intermediate-aged stellar population in that galaxy. (as we know, most giant E/S0 galaxies are supposed to be dominated by an old stellar population)

M84, while optically looking very bland, has quite a complex internal structure in terms of its constituent stellar ages and stellar orbits.

If NGC 1404 is actually a mild S0 galaxy, it may have a composite stellar population (old + intermediate aged), so it may also have a high rate of type 1a supernovae.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-12-2011, 09:24 AM
Suzy's Avatar
Suzy
Searching for Travolta...

Suzy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 3,700
Congratulations to Stu & the Boss team!

I'm having trouble keeping up with all the new SN discoveries of late. Great work, guys.

Wow, I'm really excited that I may have some hope of seeing this SN thru my 10" dob from my backyard.
Bring on some clear skies..!

Robert- as usual, the information you supply is most interesting and educational- thank you. And thanks Ivan for your pics.
Steve, I have saved your image and will use it to help me find it. I haven't ventured into Fornax territory yet, hope I can find it.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-12-2011, 09:41 AM
madbadgalaxyman's Avatar
madbadgalaxyman (Robert)
Registered User

madbadgalaxyman is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzy View Post
Congratulations to Stu & the Boss team!


Robert- as usual, the information you supply is most interesting and educational- thank you. it.
Thanks, Suzy,
yeah, these galaxies like NGC1404 and M84 and other big E and S0 galaxies can look pretty bland, but they can contain stars formed at a variety of different times.
If you can answer the question "how do we turn a star forming galaxy with plenty of gas into one of these quiescent systems?", then you will be worthy of the Nobel Prize in physics!

Robert
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-12-2011, 12:12 PM
PeterM
Registered User

PeterM is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,997
We have information that this is an early Type1a event - where a White Dwarf star siphons off matter from a companion Red Giant star, when the mass of the WD exceeds 1.4 solar mass - BANG. Being an early event it may brighten, already reports are its mag is 12.4V making it one of the brightest SN for a while.

This is attracting a lot of interest from professional astronomers, its bright, its a type 1a, its relatively close and caught reasonably early. Amateur astronomers like YOU can see it visually and our own and Madbadgalaxyman provides us with the link between amateur and pro with his knowledgable posts, thanks Robert.

Yes indeed Suzy get your 10inch Dob and use the images here to orientate the galaxy and you should have little trouble spotting the "super new star". When you do have a think about the star being completely obliterated and the new elements created leading to something new, more exciting over time perhaps a new Sunlike star.

Greg makes a good point, Stu was imaging NGC1399 and NGC1404 was not on his list but in the field so all was checked. And just like Gregs recent discovery where he nearly discarded his image before checking - the message to astro imagers who go to a lot of trouble to image galaxies in the first place is you might as well check them, you may make a significant discovery simply by luck. Sure the BOSS team do tens of thousands of images between us each year and luck can still play apart.
I need some now, been over 2 years since my last discovery.

Last edited by PeterM; 05-12-2011 at 02:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-12-2011, 02:59 PM
madbadgalaxyman's Avatar
madbadgalaxyman (Robert)
Registered User

madbadgalaxyman is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterM View Post
Being an early event it may brighten, already reports are its mag is 12.4V making it one of the brightest SN for a while.
Yeah, Pete, this is a luminous little bugger.....as the distance to the core of the Fornax cluster is now well constrained, I should be able to work out how luminous this SN is. I shall do this, shortly.

- robert
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-12-2011, 07:40 PM
Park123's Avatar
Park123 (Stu)
Registered User

Park123 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 68
Hi All
Yes Gemini confirmed a type Ia event last night .I have been told that a lot more observations will be made because it is before max light.
I took some images with GRAS last night as it is cloudy here and will post the results soon

The Progenitor for this SN will also be looked for as the HST took detailed imagery of this galaxy when the last supernova took place in 2007.So more interesting observations will come for this SN.

Yes Colin did a great job here thanks to him. Also fantastic to work with all of the guys in the group everybody does their part.

Thanks must go to my wife Lynn who supports my Supernova search programme. Contrary to popular belief (I actually do have a life outside astronomy) I have a 7 day a week job which we are currently very busy at so the time she gives me to blink all those images and the hours and hours I spend at the scope really makes the difference between success and failure and to put up with me when I have very little sleep most nights 3-4 hours if it clear so as you would imagine it is key to have that support.

Last edited by Park123; 06-12-2011 at 06:04 AM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:40 PM
barx1963's Avatar
barx1963 (Malcolm)
Bright the hawk's flight

barx1963 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Mt Duneed Vic
Posts: 3,978
Nabbed it here in Colac with the 12". Needs averted vision with so much moonage in the sky but it is definitely there. In the moments of clarity, I guessed it was nearly vis with direct vision, but not a positive direct vision obs. I have done a very dodgy sketch which I will scan and post tomorrow.
Hopefully this little begger will still be pumping out photons for a couple of weeks so I can have a go when skies are darker!
Congrats to Stu and the BOSS team and thanks for bringing it to our attention especially as this is my first Supernova Observation!

Malcolm

Last edited by barx1963; 06-12-2011 at 08:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-12-2011, 07:52 AM
mswhin63's Avatar
mswhin63 (Malcolm)
Registered User

mswhin63 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Para Hills, South Australia
Posts: 3,620
Gratz Stu and BOSS team great stuff
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06-12-2011, 11:15 AM
rogerg's Avatar
rogerg (Roger)
Registered User

rogerg is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 4,563
Congratulations guys! another one!
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-12-2011, 04:34 PM
Greg Bryant
AS&T Editor

Greg Bryant is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 351
Congratulations Stu on SN 2011iv, officially announced just a short while ago. That's 20 official supernovae for Stu, with another 2 still waiting the official word under the new rules (they both look true blue but now they require spectroscopic confirmation to receive the designation).

I've got a short article on the BOSS team supernovae in the Feb/Mar issue of Australian Sky & Telescope. Alas, Stu's latest didn't make the deadline!

Greg
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-12-2011, 06:54 PM
Park123's Avatar
Park123 (Stu)
Registered User

Park123 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 68
Thanks Greg
Yes a hour or so ago it was announced as SN2011iv- CBET 2940
And we were credited with the discovery. As Supernova hunters this is what we wait for the CBET make all the work worthwhile. Sadly the weather has packed it in at the moment with rain and clouds perhaps after full moon might get a shot at an image.
Sorry Greg I class each discovery 22 so far. We follow these closely with light curves etc too much work goes in to each one to be dumped if no spectra is done. otherwise what’s the point

Stu
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-12-2011, 04:30 PM
Rob_K
Registered User

Rob_K is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bright, Vic, Australia
Posts: 2,158
Hubble observations:
http://www.astronomerstelegram.org/?read=3797

Will be interesting, starts 11 Dec.

Cheers -
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-12-2011, 05:28 PM
Park123's Avatar
Park123 (Stu)
Registered User

Park123 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 68
Hi All
As Rob has said and as hoped for the Hubble space telescope will start observations of SN2011iv.I was informed of this late last night here is a quote from the The Astronomer's Telegram:
“STIS UV observations with the Hubble Space Telescope under the Cycle 19 program "Understanding the Progenitor Systems, Explosion Mechanisms,and Cosmological Utility of Type Ia Supernovae" (PI Foley). The first epoch of HST UV spectroscopy will occur on 11 December 2011 at about 03:00
UT.”
There is also be Imaging at several observatories (Las Campanas included) as well as optical and NIR spectroscopy. This SNe is being followed by alot of observatories.
This is great news.

Stu
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-12-2011, 08:17 PM
PeterM
Registered User

PeterM is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,997
The icing on the cake.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-12-2011, 08:05 AM
Greg Bock's Avatar
Greg Bock (Greg Bock)
Registered User

Greg Bock is online now
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 374
Yes. yes, yes, makes it all worthwhile!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-12-2011, 08:55 AM
astroron's Avatar
astroron (Ron)
Supernova Searcher

astroron is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cambroon Queensland Australia
Posts: 9,313
Must be the ultimate accolade,having a Supernova you discovered observed by the Hubble Space Telescope
Well done again Stu
Cheers
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09-12-2011, 09:13 AM
CraigS's Avatar
CraigS
Unpredictable

CraigS is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,023
Now that the discovery phase transitions towards more towards scientific research, I’d like to make a few comments.

Firstly, congratulations to Stu, (& the whole BOSS team), on finding this bright fella. Your dedication and commitment to this past-time is simply awesome.

So, current Supernova researchers are hotly debating the progenitor question. I think they’re now able to move beyond the traditional popular singular theoretical view that Type1as necessarily originate from the white dwarf in a binary system, which draws material off its companion until the Chandrasekhar limit, (ie: the Single Degenerate (SD) model).

This model requires a lot of fine tuning to explain the accretion rate in gaining extra mass and to avoid resulting in a red giant, instead of the observed T1a. This may be explained by invoking a moderation of the rate caused by infalling stellar winds however, no evidence of the dispersed ions this would create, has been observed. Neither has the search for surviving remnants of the companion star.

The alternative model, the Double Degenerate (DD) model, portrays two infalling binaries, merging after losing energy and angular momentum.

Both models suffer observational and theoretical problems, individually, and both share common problems also.

A recent paper was published, which models the T1a rate within a set volume of space, and then overlays this with the expected frequency of different progenitor scenarios. As it turns out, this model favours the DD scenario, which was quite unexpected.

I’d imagine many steely eyes will be searching for evidence of progenitor remnants, ion clouds and wind-blown cavities, etc in support of the SD model. On the other hand, evidence of other close and massive white dwarf binaries, might add more weight to the DD model.

I think its important for amateur observers to keep up with current competing theories, as there are additional observations which can be made beyond the initial discovery. Whether these are able to be accomplished with amateur technologies ... is a question I leave up to our BOSS experts !

Well done, guys.

Cheers & Rgds.

Last edited by CraigS; 09-12-2011 at 10:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-12-2011, 07:27 AM
PeterM
Registered User

PeterM is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,997
Hi Craig,

This is such a good post from you I really appreciate it.

I am well aware of the merging model for type1a SN and I should have (as I have done in prior threads) noted "or the merging of WDs". The link is something I will print and read fully later, thanks indeed for that.

What really is exciting for me in your post is that it says to me astronomers are still looking at what is happening with Supernova. Not long after my first discovery I had two interesting comments made to me. The great Bob Evans noted on the apparent lack of follow up observations by professionals that Supernova were "not sexy anymore" and by another "we know so much about supernova that professionals were busy with other important discoveries"
I think exoplanet discoveries and the race find more of these had probably become the new "sexy" in astronomy taking telescope time and funding. I suppose the GFC probably had its impact felt on funding for professional observatories also, perhaps grants were more likely if you were a pro discovering exoplanets.

For an amateur like me you then started to ask yourself is it worth all the expense and considerable time in imaging, blinking etc if it all came to naught.
Well clearly what you present shows that we do not know everything about SN and models are under scrutiny. For me I think this is backed up by the enthusiasm and response the BOSS team get from professional astronomers particularly in Chile and South Africa. In wanting to follow up our discoveries they are very willing to break into existing programmes (this is amazing in itself) to obtain a spectra and all because an amateur in a tin shed with modest equipment found something that maybe a SN. A revitalised interest from professional is just the shot in the arm for amateurs like me. and the BOSS team.

Your last paragraph is interesting and thought provoking - hmmm BOSS experts? well ok at finding and reporting them perhaps. So what can a well equipped advanced amateur do to contribute further to SN science? Aside from finding them and doing light curves I don't know and perhaps others here have some ideas. Infact we could run this very question by the several professionals we have contact with to see what they think. I do wonder how faint amateurs can go with obtaining a spectra that may be useful as there are still SN fainter than mag 16 particularly in the South that don't get quick follow up.

A good thought provoking post like so many you write Craig. You have added to my enthusiasm to find another.

Thanks

Last edited by PeterM; 10-12-2011 at 09:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 08:27 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement
Testar
Advertisement