#1  
Old 29-09-2012, 02:09 AM
graham.hobart's Avatar
graham.hobart (Graham stevens)
DeepSkySlacker

graham.hobart is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: hobart, tasmania
Posts: 1,996
CCD choice-is this possible?

Ok, I am looking to go up the ladder again. But I have a few reservations about more expensive CCD's.
Here's what I would like...
DSLR sized sensor
Effective cooling
Maxim compatible
Not too many freaking leads or cables
A robust design
Possibly OSC but could be Mono as well
Considering that I would like to use it at varying focal lengths and on different scopes then an inbuilt guider might be good, though I am open to suggestions as I have been doing Ok with a guide scope-
The plan is ...
I have a sweet set up now with a 120mm Tak refractor, but have a C11 coming next year, also have been recently re-jigging my 10" f4 Newt with new focuser and Bob's knobs etc, so have a variety of scopes to use it on.
I reckon personally a big chip OSC with internal guider or a big chip mono with internal filter wheel ?
Something that can take internal darks too.
SBIG ?
I have to save up anyway so in no rush, just some thoughts please

Cheers

Graham
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 29-09-2012, 09:29 AM
Terry B's Avatar
Terry B
Country living & viewing

Terry B is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Armidale
Posts: 2,760
What do you want to take pics of?
This varies the answer.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29-09-2012, 10:03 AM
graham.hobart's Avatar
graham.hobart (Graham stevens)
DeepSkySlacker

graham.hobart is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: hobart, tasmania
Posts: 1,996
ccd

I am more a nebula than a planetary kind of guy. Though with the C11 I could use my old DMK for planetary.
Yes, mainly nebula I think
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29-09-2012, 10:56 AM
gregbradley's Avatar
gregbradley
Registered User

gregbradley is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15,472
What size focuser does your Tak 120 have?

2.7 inch focusers are limited to what size ccd chip you can use. It may be too small for the STL11 and limited to APS sized chips (24x16mm).

Same with C11 and whilst a generality SCTs are not ideal for astrophotography due to mirror flop, off axis poor performance.

Tak 120 could be awesome with the right camera. 8300 chipped camera would be safe as its a one size fits almost any scope type chip (not so ideal for long focal length scopes though unless you have under 2 arc sec seeing).

Greg.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29-09-2012, 11:06 AM
Tandum's Avatar
Tandum (Robin)
Registered User

Tandum is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Carindale, Brisbane.
Posts: 4,113
The 11002 has a 44mm diagonal. I get a 50mm image circle from my fs102 with a 2.7 focuser. Even the fs60 has a 45mm image circle with an even smaller focuser. Just avoid 2" adapters and it should light it up.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 29-09-2012, 12:26 PM
graham.hobart's Avatar
graham.hobart (Graham stevens)
DeepSkySlacker

graham.hobart is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: hobart, tasmania
Posts: 1,996
what CCD ?

1102? what is that?
Excuse my ignorance

I have an Optec focuser on the Tak which I think brings the focuser down to a 2", though I think the original tube is 2.7"
I like the image scale of the Tak so that would be my main scope I think, though with a Moonlite fitted to the 10" Newt and an MPCC I will be experimenting with that as long as the mount holds it.
My seeing is mostly crappy anyway hence the OSC idea.
Is there an OSC with intrinsic guider with an 8300 sensor?
How does the 8300 size compare with say the Canon DSLR (60Da) sensor for size?
is this a step up from my QHY 8 OSC (old style ) with the "APS sized" sensor?
7.8x7.8 um ="6.16um mega effect pixels according to blurb

My Atik 314L+ has the Sony ICX285AL Exview with 6.45x6.45um pixels (1392x1040) - I would prefer a bigger sensor as I find the image scale on the Tak slightly small.

The image circle with the optional reducer or flattener for the tak is 40mm- but they are quite expensive.

Cheers for the good advice thus far chaps..
Graz
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29-09-2012, 01:31 PM
RickS's Avatar
RickS (Rick)
PI cult recruiter

RickS is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by graham.hobart View Post
1102? what is that?
KAI11002 full frame sensor as found in cameras from SBIG, FLI, etc. 11Mbits, 9um pixels.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29-09-2012, 03:40 PM
graham.hobart's Avatar
graham.hobart (Graham stevens)
DeepSkySlacker

graham.hobart is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: hobart, tasmania
Posts: 1,996
ccd

so to answer my question...
would this 111002work with my set up?
or do I go as Greg advised
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-10-2012, 12:02 AM
gregbradley's Avatar
gregbradley
Registered User

gregbradley is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15,472
I had a Tak FS152 with a 2.7 inch focuser. I tried to use an SBIG STL11 on it. I got really bad vignetting and coma. With reducer I had coma and vignetting also. I tried the TOA35 flattener - shocking, bad vignetting, unusable.

I recall someone saying they got this camera to work on the smaller focuser. Perhaps there is a flattener that will work on it. I haven't seen one.

Reducer's will not work as Tak reducers just reduce they do not flatten like some AP ones do. Perhaps the super reducers made for TOA150 may but these are 4 inch focuser models.

I put a 4 inch focuser on my FS152 and got the flattener and then it handled the large chip of the STL11.

That is my experience. Don't be fooled by image circle sizes as its the focuser that limits it, not the lens. All you need is the larger focuser so no vignetting and the larger flattener to get rid of the coma.

All this applies to FS series and perhaps TSA or TOA may be different here being a different optical design. But you'd want to have proof from those actually using that setup before investing that sort of money in the camera and adapters etc.


Greg.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-10-2012, 03:48 AM
gasman1's Avatar
gasman1 (Gary A Sitton)
Registered User

gasman1 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Houston, TX USA
Posts: 18
MIL camera comments?

I have just purchased a Sony NEX-5N MIL (Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens) camera with a large APS-C (CMOS) sensor. The 16.1 megapixel sensor carries a maximum image size of 45923056 pixels. It has a flippable, large format, high resolution LCD and an optional electronic viewer (which I don't have yet). I wanted a "no-PC/Laptop" solution to beginning astrophotography which this provides. Because the camera has no mirror box, it's about an inch thinner than a typical DSLR. I'm also hoping that the flippable LCD will help in cooling the sensor which is just inside the back side of the camera body. I had to remove the original el-cheapo 1-1/4" rack and pinion focuser because of inadequate back focus on my Orion 130mm Newtonian. It's just now been replaced with an industrial strength Antares 2" Crayford focuser. I don't believe I'm going to see any vignetting with a 2" barrel on my T-minus adapter on the Sony. The neat thing about the MIL cameras is that they will work on CSTs with the eyepiece diagonal in place. I focus by using a jewelers loop up close to view the LCD display. Since there's no mirror in the camera, what you see (on the display) is what you get!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-10-2012, 09:06 AM
gregbradley's Avatar
gregbradley
Registered User

gregbradley is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15,472
Sounds good. Whats a CST?

Alex has taken some great nightscape lens shots with a modified Nex 5.

I can see mirrorless cameras taking market share off DSLRs as they continue to evolve.

Greg.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-10-2012, 11:34 AM
Tandum's Avatar
Tandum (Robin)
Registered User

Tandum is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Carindale, Brisbane.
Posts: 4,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
I got really bad vignetting and coma.
Greg.
I don't have these problems with my fs102 or fs60.
I get a little droop with the fs60 but the camera/wheel are heavier than the scope.
It does vignette on the rc8 with a 2" drawtube.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-10-2012, 04:23 PM
gregbradley's Avatar
gregbradley
Registered User

gregbradley is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15,472
With STL11?

There you go then, they must be slightly different optically. My experience was limited to Tak FS152. The larger focuser handled all the issues and I gave it a good go.

Greg.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-10-2012, 04:20 AM
gasman1's Avatar
gasman1 (Gary A Sitton)
Registered User

gasman1 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Houston, TX USA
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
Sounds good. Whats a CST?

Alex has taken some great nightscape lens shots with a modified Nex 5.

I can see mirrorless cameras taking market share off DSLRs as they continue to evolve.

Greg.
CST is yank-speak for Cassegrain-Schmidt Telescope, or really any bottom viewing rig with a star diagonal.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-10-2012, 05:36 AM
gregbradley's Avatar
gregbradley
Registered User

gregbradley is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15,472
Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman1 View Post
CST is yank-speak for Cassegrain-Schmidt Telescope, or really any bottom viewing rig with a star diagonal.

Thanks for that.

Greg.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:26 AM
SkyViking's Avatar
SkyViking (Rolf)
Registered User

SkyViking is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waitakere Ranges, New Zealand
Posts: 2,260
I'd say QSI683wsg, it has the sensitive KAF-8300 chip plus both internal off-axis guider and filter wheel.
No flexure issues to worry about and the whole package weighs in at about 1.3kgs. I'm extremely happy with mine, it's very convenient and robust
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-10-2012, 10:30 AM
Rigel003's Avatar
Rigel003 (Graeme)
Registered User

Rigel003 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 1,037
I'm using the FLI ML8300 with my TSA-120 and find it to be a good match. Here are a couple of Starry Night simulations - field real estate for your ATIK compared with the 8300 chip on the TSA. First at native F/7.5 and the second with the Tak reducer at F/5.6 (highly recommended).

I'd agree about the QSI being a good all in one choice.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (field size.jpg)
44.4 KB38 views
Click for full-size image (field size reducer.jpg)
56.8 KB33 views
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-10-2012, 11:05 AM
graham.hobart's Avatar
graham.hobart (Graham stevens)
DeepSkySlacker

graham.hobart is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: hobart, tasmania
Posts: 1,996
ccd choice

that's the sort of advice i was looking for- thanks guys
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-10-2012, 10:08 PM
gregbradley's Avatar
gregbradley
Registered User

gregbradley is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15,472
I have the ML8300 as well and its a great camera but if I were buying today I probably would go QSI683 for the all in one solution. Very convenient like STL11 is.

Greg.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-10-2012, 09:38 PM
Paul Haese's Avatar
Paul Haese
Registered User

Paul Haese is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 9,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post

Reducer's will not work as Tak reducers just reduce they do not flatten like some AP ones do. Perhaps the super reducers made for TOA150 may but these are 4 inch focuser models.


Greg.
Not sure where you got this idea from Greg, but Tak reducers do flatten the field. I have one for my TSA which is a TOA130 reducer but used also on the TSA series and my images are flattened.


Graham, I can also recommend the QSI600 series cameras. you can get them in colour and monochrome. Monochrome with 8 position filter wheel gives you a very wide latitude.

However if DSLR is more in keeping with portability I can recommend a CentralDS cooled DSLR. That way you have cooling and portability too.

All the best with your decision
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 09:57 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
OzScopes Authorised Dealer
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement
NexDome Observatories
Advertisement
Meade Australia
Advertisement
Celestron Australia
Advertisement
SkyWatcher Australia
Advertisement
Lunatico Astronomical
Advertisement
Astronomy and Electronics Centre
Advertisement