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  #81  
Old 04-11-2019, 08:23 AM
Dove (Alan)
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Originally Posted by morls View Post
Thanks for the detailed post Alan.
The best is to come Moris',

It was necessary to post the somewhat tedious, but essential background in order to understand the motive for the neglected feature concerning the distorted interpretation of the annual decrease in the obliquity of the ecliptic, namely the spiral mode of planetary motion.

This has stifled the advance of astronomy to a better understanding of the motion of our planet. One serious consequence of this is the inability to understand the cause of the Ice - ages.

I will be Back posting shortly with the not so tedious, conclusion.

Alan D.
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  #82  
Old 04-11-2019, 09:22 AM
JA
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...

With this historical background presented, I will explain my view of the cause of the precession of the cause of the equinoxes as requested. It is based on Newton’s explanation and is to my mind, a perfect one, consistent with the law of spiral planetary motion.

His definition is subject to the necessary constraints on him, not to openly recognise the spiral nature of planetary motion, which he dared not venture into. His explanation we recall was delivered in the ‘Principia’. Which we can examine in next post. I will post again soon.

Alan D. 2/11/19

PS I will try to send a graphic that will greatly in my explanation
Hi Alan,

Are you referring to the motion described as Apsidal Precession as depicted in the animated graphic linked below? ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apsidal_precession#/media/Filerecessing_Kepler_orbit_280fra mes_e0.6_smaller.gif

Best
JA
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  #83  
Old 04-11-2019, 08:04 PM
morls (Stephen)
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I've just found this great quote in Stephen Hawkings' "Brief answers to the Big Questions", in a passage dealing with, amongst other things, ten-dimensional M-theory space:

In three dimensions, planets can have stable orbits around stars. This is a consequence of gravitation obeying the inverse square law, as discovered by Robert Hooke in 1665 and elaborated on by Isaac Newton (p.59)
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  #84  
Old 05-11-2019, 04:40 PM
JohnF (John)
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our earth's axis tilt does change, that I it is not constant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_tilt
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  #85  
Old 06-11-2019, 07:03 PM
Dove (Alan)
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our earth's axis tilt does change, that I it is not constant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_tilt
I agree John F

but It has long been listed as one of the 'constants' like planetary precession Luni - solar precession and general precession in the Astronomical almanacs'

Alan D

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Originally Posted by JA View Post
Hi Alan,

Are you referring to the motion described as Apsidal Precession as depicted in the animated graphic linked below? ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apsidal_precession#/media/Filerecessing_Kepler_orbit_280fra mes_e0.6_smaller.gif

Best
JA
Hi JA,

No, but yes, apsidal precession too is a spiral, like al planetary motions, the rotation of the ecliptic', displacement is the similar to precession of the equinoxes. though it is progressing prograde.

Aln D.

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Originally Posted by morls View Post
I've just found this great quote in Stephen Hawkings' "Brief answers to the Big Questions", in a passage dealing with, amongst other things, ten-dimensional M-theory space:

In three dimensions, planets can have stable orbits around stars. This is a consequence of gravitation obeying the inverse square law, as discovered by Robert Hooke in 1665 and elaborated on by Isaac Newton (p.59)
Interesting, If Hooke said something it would be worth listening to.

I am sorry I am a bit slow with my reply but as usual I am pretty busy but here goes:

This simple geometrical fact reveals that any movement of the equatorial plane of a rotating body carries with it the corresponding movement of its axis, since the axis will always be perpendicular, 90 degrees, to its equatorial plane. This principle applies in spherical as well as plane geometry. So, as the Earth’s equatorial plane is being moved toward the plane of the ecliptic so the North pole of Earth’s axis will correspondingly move toward the pole of the ecliptic by each spiral orbit, producing a continuous decrease in the obliquity. This annual decrease caused by Luni – Solar action, has never been recognised, Instead, the decrease in obliquity it has been attributed to Planetary perturbations for reasons already explained.

There are only two options open, if you declare for a circular orbit that is a notion of perpetual motion. If you declare for a spiral orbit then the orbit is recognised as being a continuous movement toward the centre.
Nature accomplishes this planetary movement with a spiral path of the plane and axis of the sphere. There is no other way the axis or plane can be moved, though perturbations can disturb it. Newton’s fine explanation of the ‘bending moment’ has long been accepted as the primary cause of the precession of the equinoxes, rightly so. This shows that he had, due in no short measure to his short association with Dr Hooke, come to fully understood the Spiral motion of the spheres of the Solar system. Though perhaps not commendable, He did not openly recognise it. We should accept what he needed to do, it was in order to survive.

The consequences of spiral planetary motion during the history of Earth are, dramatic climatic changes, bringing into play a long, cycling interaction between water and ice for many millions of years, we know as the Ice Ages. The annual decrease in the obliquity of the ecliptic is the clue to really understand spiral Planetary motion revealing the consequence of this conflict between Earth’s Spiral Spin and spiral Orbital motion, both driven by the Sun’s gravitational power.

Note,
It is said that the Sun’s gravitational influence on Earth is 500 times greater than that of planetary perturbation.

Cheers Alan

Last edited by RB; 06-11-2019 at 07:27 PM.
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  #86  
Old 06-11-2019, 08:33 PM
Dove (Alan)
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t
Hello Stephen,

Pardon me if I comment on your question concerning the direction of the rotation of the planets.

That is an interesting topic we might engage in later. if we accept and follow the spiral law of planetary motion, so much is revealed that otherwise lies as a mystery or remains unresolved. For example the essence of natures spiral is change and all things or processes have a beginning and an end. Change is continuous in the solar system and is not chaotic it is a very orderly process' the main rule to follow in our planetary research is the spiral.

I will put it to you, the Sun is continuously changing our planet angle of obliquity as was being disscussed. If we rolled the orbits back by less than 90 degrees obliquity our planet would be orbiting the Sun in a clockwise direction the opposite to our present anticlockwise (prograde) direction. So you can understand that a planet's direction of orbit is not a fixed thing everything is subject to change. Planets have grown through the accretion process. All basic knowledge of our solar system.

There are some good sites to visit that have the records of the rotations and orbits all our main planets and their satellites. prograde and retrograde but there is order in this. But of course they are viewed as fixed entities. When you have done this and get the general picture we can have a chat on the subject on the planets of the Solar system from the spiral point of view.

I will take the liberty of making an assumptiion, that you entered into the league of astronomers and was told that if you want to learn about astronomy 'then we will assist you and teach you how use a telescope and study the cosmos.

I make this assumption on the basis of the format of introductions to astronomy are all based on that formula. Space is the place.

Now that is great, nothing wrong with that apart from the fact that the basics of the poor old Solar system are tending to get left behind, that there is not much more to learn down here.

There is a tendency for astronomical societies to induce newcomers to leap off into the deep end first I think.

Cheers. Alan D.
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  #87  
Old 06-11-2019, 09:46 PM
morls (Stephen)
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I will take the liberty of making an assumptiion, that you entered into the league of astronomers and was told that if you want to learn about astronomy 'then we will assist you and teach you how use a telescope and study the cosmos.

I make this assumption on the basis of the format of introductions to astronomy are all based on that formula. Space is the place.
This isn't the case, I just love looking through a telescope, and have an interest in the universe we are part of.
"Space is the Place" is the name of an album by the wonderful musician Sun Ra.
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  #88  
Old 08-11-2019, 07:18 AM
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andyc (Andy)
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One serious consequence of this is the inability to understand the cause of the Ice - ages.
Alan D.
Except we do understand the cause of ice ages. We've known about it for a long time - quite subtle changes in peak insolation at higher northern latitudes (driven by physically understood periidic eccentricity, precession and tilt variations), magnified by attendant changes in CO2 that provides sufficient alteration in Earth's energy balance to make these oscillations global, visible in the glacier and ice sheet palaeoclimate, and ocean sediments around the world. Or perhaps you think the oxygen atoms in the ice cores conspired to produce that same pattern, that glaciers conspired to advance and retreat at these times? Good grief, crack open some basic textbooks Alan! This thread has managed denial of: orbital mechanics, climate physics, evolution and relativity, an impressive list. It's implying grand conspiracies of scientists around thrthe world. So I'm definitely out of here now. We need to build our understanding on reason, logic and reality. Not seeing that in this thread!
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  #89  
Old 09-11-2019, 06:33 PM
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Perpetual motion is not possible. Due to (albeit incredibly tiny amounts of) matter spontaneously appearing then disappearing in the vacuum, there can never, ever be perpetual motion. The effects of this would take billions upon billions of years to be measurable though.
What is measureable though on far shorter time scales is the yarkovsky effect, which literally tears asteroids apart.
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  #90  
Old Yesterday, 11:47 AM
Swagman105 (Geoff)
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I'm not really sure about that. Spontaneous particle appearance in the path of motion should seem to provide a pressure against that motion through a vacuum. But there should also be particle appearance behind the direction of motion (and above and below for that matter) so shouldn't this result in zero overall pressure in any direction so that motion is not affected.
I wonder about light travelling from distant galaxies and whether the diminution of the light received is purely the result of the inverse square law which seems to be the effect of dispersion over a widening sphere or whether there are any measurable effects that could possibly be explained by spontaneous particle interactions that block out some of the photons.
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  #91  
Old Yesterday, 11:59 AM
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There was some work done on this, see here:
https://physics.aps.org/synopsis-for...ett.118.204801
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