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  #1  
Old 18-07-2017, 10:22 PM
jimmyh1555 (James)
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Pentax ASTROTRACER

With my new beaut Pentax KP I bought an ASTROTRACER unit that fixes on where the flash unit goes. I tried it out the other night and am really AMAZED at what I got! All you need is a tripod and point up at the sky! I managed to get the Southern Cross AND Omega Centaurus in and also some of Eta Carina. I set the shutter for 90 secs and out came round stars! I am going to try and master the art of putting a picture on this forum soon, so WATCH OUT!
Does anybody else have a Pentax and an ASTROTRACER? They're magic
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Old 19-07-2017, 06:53 PM
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blink138 (Pat)
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haha well done james!
pat
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Old 19-07-2017, 09:27 PM
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OzEclipse (Joe Cali)
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Hi James.
I've used it a bit on a Pentax K5 and Pentax K1.

When you wrote "With my new beaut Pentax KP I bought an ASTROTRACER unit that fixes on where the flash unit goes." IIS readers not familiar with the Pentax system will get the wrong idea from this statement.

The ASTROTRACER technology is built into the Pentax firmware. However it needs a GPS input for orientation to make the corrections using the sensor shift. The thing you bought and plugged into your flash shoe is an O-GPS1 unit.

My K5 needs the same external O-GPS unit that you have. The K1 has the GPS built in so no external unit is required.

I agree it's great for a quick shot or if you don't have a tracking mount. A well tracked image is still better.

Image at the top of this page is an image I took 2 months ago.
http://joe-cali.com/astronomy/astrophotography-2/
All others on this page are taken with the K5 or K1 but without astrotrace

Another image about 3/4 of the way down this page
http://joe-cali.com/eclipses/PAST/ASE2013/index.html

was also shot with astrotrace 5 mins exposure 12mm f4 lens.

Hope you continue to enjoy the images you are making.

Joe
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Old 20-07-2017, 10:12 PM
jimmyh1555 (James)
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pentax astro

Thanks for that, Joe! Yes, the Pentax KP (which is destined to become their flagship model, by the sound of things) does not c ome with an inbuilt GPS unit, The unit I bought was an optional extra and is sold apparently mainly for people who want to have info on the Exif files of where the photo was taken. It also just happens to have this ASTROTRACER function that uses the movement of the sensor to follow the stars. They reckon that you can shoot a max exposure up to 5 minutes depending what lens you have on it.
To get the ASTROTRACER working you have to turn the camera through 360 degrees on all 3 axies - thus ensuring that you get the strap all muddled up and have to be careful you dont drop it! Apart from that, EASY PEASY
One question, though........All astro photography tutorials say how you have to do long exposures to capture the light - on all cameras - so how is it that last night I took a photo of the Southern Cross with my Pentax, ISO 1600 and F1.4 and 60 sec and it came out looking quite good. I then cranked up the exposure to 200 sec and it came out horribly white - presumably overexposed.... SO What's the go with long exposures of many minutes? How come those pictures aren't washed out??? I must be missing something... HELP
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Old 20-07-2017, 11:39 PM
raymo
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Provided that there is not a lot of light pollution from street lights or nearby towns/cities, the sky will remain dark even in very long exposures, the
main difference will be the longer the exposure, the more stars will appear,
until with extremely long exposures, there will be so many stars that it will
look like fog. In other words, over exposure is not the reason your image
was all white, the problem lies elsewhere.
I have attached an image of the S.Cross area to illustrate my point. It
is a stack of 10x 30secs subs @ ISO 1600 taken through an 8"Newt,
which has enormously more light gathering power than your camera lens.
raymo
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Click for full-size image (s.cross-area-2-DSS-PS-BR-down.jpg)
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Last edited by raymo; 20-07-2017 at 11:53 PM. Reason: more text + add image
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Old 20-07-2017, 11:55 PM
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OzEclipse (Joe Cali)
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Quote:
pentax astro
Thanks for that, Joe! Yes, the Pentax KP (which is destined to become their flagship model, by the sound of things) does not come with an inbuilt GPS unit, The unit I bought was an optional extra and is sold apparently mainly for people who want to have info on the Exif files of where the photo was taken. It also just happens to have this ASTROTRACER function that uses the movement of the sensor to follow the stars. They reckon that you can shoot a max exposure up to 5 minutes depending what lens you have on it.

To get the ASTROTRACER working you have to turn the camera through 360 degrees on all 3 axes - thus ensuring that you get the strap all muddled up and have to be careful you dont drop it! Apart from that, EASY PEASY
The attached unit is just a GPS nothing else. ASTROTRACER is a function in the firmware and in the camera. Always there whether you have the GPS or not. But GPS input is essential to the operation. The GPS provides the camera position info. The 3 axis turns calibrate the in camera accelerometer, gyroscope and magnetic sensor, so that the camera is 3D calibrated so the processor knows which part of the sky the camera is pointing at. The processor and firmware ASTROtrace then calculates what movement of the sensor will minimize the movement of stars in the field. If you look at the image on the 2nd URL I gave you :

"Another image about 3/4 of the way down this page
http://joe-cali.com/eclipses/PAST/ASE2013/index.html "

It's taken with a K5, 300s at ISO800 with a 12mm f4. The approximate equivalent of 19s with your lens at ISO1600. The minimization routine results in streaking of the stars top right and bottom left, but everything else is relatively stationary.


Quote:
One question, though........All astro photography tutorials say how you have to do long exposures to capture the light - on all cameras - so how is it that last night I took a photo of the Southern Cross with my Pentax, ISO 1600 and F1.4 and 60 sec and it came out looking quite good. I then cranked up the exposure to 200 sec and it came out horribly white - presumably overexposed.... SO What's the go with long exposures of many minutes? How come those pictures aren't washed out??? I must be missing something... HELP
You are overexposing the milky way....

Exposure is the product of intensity and time.

Your f1.4 lens is much much faster than the lenses and scopes most astrophotographers use.
So the light intensity reaching the sensor is much much higher.

An f1.4 lens collects light : -
2 times faster than an f2 lens
4 times faster than an f2.8 lens
8 times faster than an f4 lens
16 times faster than an f5.6 lens
32 times faster than an f8 lens

Modern sensors are more efficient at collecting light than older cameras which may have been used when those articles were written. I'm not talking about ISO. This quantity is called QE or Quantum Efficiency. Many astrophotographers shoot at ISO800 f5.6

So your ISO1600 @f1.4
at 60s is the equivalent exposure as a 26 min exposure at ISO 800 @ f5.6
at 200s is the equivalent exposure as a 104 min exposure at ISO 800 @ f5.6

Modern cameras sensors are capable of using high ISO but the lower the ISO you use, the better the dynamic range. Dynamic range is the ability of the sensor to rerd large differences between bright and dim light. In astro photos, the presents as white saturated stars, burnt out bright cores of objects such as galaxies, bright nebulae, globular clusters.

My advice : if you are going to continue using the lens at f1.4, then experiment with reducing the ISO and then use longer exposure times with ASTROTRACER.

Joe

Last edited by OzEclipse; 21-07-2017 at 05:09 PM. Reason: fix typos
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  #7  
Old 21-07-2017, 10:40 AM
jimmyh1555 (James)
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Pentax and ASTROTRACER

HEY Joe!! That was a most BRILLIANT explanation Thanks so much. You explained much more than all those tutorials did, and in understandable language! I have read about F numbers and shutter speeds, but it just didn't sink in until now! I was starting to wonder how at F1.4 and quick speeds, the image looked better than the long exposures some tutorials insist on! I was reading my Burnhams celestial handbook last night and this bloke in the 1890's took a photo of 2 HOURS! I wonder what his F No was!
Thanks for the explanation
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  #8  
Old 21-07-2017, 11:24 AM
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Great explanation Joe.

Just one possible correction, I think that GPS can be used only to get location and not the orientation. Most likely the device uses a combination of accelerometer, gyroscope and a magnetic sensor to determine the camera orientation. For example, this is what mobile phones use. The orientation from the sensors is then combined with the location obtained from the GPS to get the absolute reading.
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Old 21-07-2017, 05:05 PM
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OzEclipse (Joe Cali)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luka View Post
Great explanation Joe.

Just one possible correction, I think that GPS can be used only to get location and not the orientation. Most likely the device uses a combination of accelerometer, gyroscope and a magnetic sensor to determine the camera orientation. For example, this is what mobile phones use. The orientation from the sensors is then combined with the location obtained from the GPS to get the absolute reading.
Hi Luka.
You are correct. I agree with what you say.
Thanks for correcting that. I have corrected my post so that if anybody reads it from archive, it will be correct.

Joe
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