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  #1  
Old 09-08-2017, 03:19 PM
gary
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Post The race to find Planet Nine using classical astronomy & new computational techniques

In a 31 July 2017 article at the Institute of Electrical and Electronics
Engineers (IEEE) web site, W. Wayt Gibbs reports on the continued
speculation of a Neptune-sized planet beyond the orbit of Pluto and
the use of supercomputers to attempt to model where it might be so
as telescopes would know where to point.

Quote:
Greg Laughlin, an astronomer at Yale University, says, “Our best estimate for its current position and brightness put it about 950 times farther than Earth from the sun.” As faint as the tiniest moons of Pluto, Planet Nine would be barely two pixels wide on the Hubble Space Telescope’s camera. Searchers could easily miss it among random speckles of sensor noise and the twinkling of distant and variable stars.
Quote:
Huge telescopes on Earth have been scanning the skies for months now. Brown and Batygin have been observing on Japan’s Subaru telescope on Mauna Kea—as have veteran minor-planet hunters Chad Trujillo of Northern Arizona University and Scott Sheppard of the Carnegie Institution for Science⁠—to exploit that observatory’s giant mirror (8.2 meters across) and its 3-metric-ton, 870-megapixel camera. Meanwhile other astronomers, both professional and amateur, are digging through archives of images in hopes of finding this needle in a hayfield.

In addition to the groups working on Subaru, Sheppard and Trujillo are leading searches in the high desert of Chile, in case the planet is easier to see from the Southern Hemisphere. There, both the 570-megapixel Dark Energy Camera (DECam) on the 4-meter Blanco telescope and the 6.5-meter Magellan telescopes are contributing to the hunt.

Any of them could get lucky. But the smart money is on software, either to deliver the quarry or reveal it to be an illusion. Simulations running on supercomputers and in the cloud are modeling billions of years of celestial mechanics to pin down Planet Nine’s likeliest path. Engineers at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, in Pasadena, have been analyzing telemetry from the Cassini spacecraft for clues to the current position of the putative planet within its enormous orbit. And an ambitious pair of graduate students is preparing to deploy machine-learning software on a petaflop-scale Cray XC40 supercomputer. Their strategy aims to cleverly combine multiple images in which Planet Nine is hidden within the noise to yield one image in which it shines unmistakably.
Quote:
Meanwhile, at the Southwest Research Institute in Colorado, David Nesvorný has been modifying his far more detailed models of the formation of the Kuiper Belt from the early days of the solar system to see what happens when he plugs in a ninth planet. The simulation, built on a symplectic code known as SyMBA, starts with a million virtual TNOs as they might have existed in the nascent solar system. The system computes 4.5 billion years of evolution and then compares the outcome to what astronomers see today. Each run takes more than five weeks to complete on 500 CPU cores of NASA’s Pleiades supercomputer.
Article here :-
http://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/s...g-beyond-pluto
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  #2  
Old 09-08-2017, 03:48 PM
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Has the 9th planet got anything to do with speculation surrounding the Nibiru controversy? It has been mooted that our Sun is in fact one partner in a binary system and that the other sun (named Nibiru) is much smaller and only visits our region of the solar system, periodically, causing devastation and cataclysms, etc....even pole shifts?

Any truth in any of these claims?
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  #3  
Old 09-08-2017, 04:05 PM
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All bogwash..!
Dean
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  #4  
Old 10-08-2017, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrophe View Post
Has the 9th planet got anything to do with speculation surrounding the Nibiru controversy? It has been mooted that our Sun is in fact one partner in a binary system and that the other sun (named Nibiru) is much smaller and only visits our region of the solar system, periodically, causing devastation and cataclysms, etc....even pole shifts?

Any truth in any of these claims?
None. Zero. Zilch.

Any object large enough to be labelled a star would have been detected long ago.

It is possible that there is another Neptune sized object out there though. Objects with highly elliptical orbits that never come closer than Neptune are the most difficult to discover, due to them spending so much of their orbit so far away, with so little lateral orbit as seen from earth.

The record for the farthest out object discovered gets broken a couple of times each decade, though all these objects are much smaller than any of the 8 recognised planets.

For something the size of Neptune, you're talking perihelion beyond the Kuiper belt. Possibly an object with an orbit perturbed early in the solar system's history. Pure speculation though.
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Old 10-08-2017, 12:45 PM
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It probably won't qualify as a planet.
Alex
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Old 10-08-2017, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieTrooper View Post
None. Zero. Zilch.

Any object large enough to be labelled a star would have been detected long ago.

It is possible that there is another Neptune sized object out there though. Objects with highly elliptical orbits that never come closer than Neptune are the most difficult to discover, due to them spending so much of their orbit so far away, with so little lateral orbit as seen from earth.

The record for the farthest out object discovered gets broken a couple of times each decade, though all these objects are much smaller than any of the 8 recognised planets.

For something the size of Neptune, you're talking perihelion beyond the Kuiper belt. Possibly an object with an orbit perturbed early in the solar system's history. Pure speculation though.
OK, but if it were a very small star....like a brown dwarf...could it not be possible that it has remained undetected for all of this time and if its orbit is highly elliptical and it approaches its partner star (our Sun) once in every 26,000 years (a time span which has been suggested on a number of websites I've seen), then its presence would be unknown to humanity, because 26K years ago, we weren't really into astronomy ....well nothing that has come down to us, anyway.

Last edited by Astrophe; 11-08-2017 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 10-08-2017, 04:53 PM
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Stuff the observations what do the prophecies say.
Alex
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Old 10-08-2017, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
Stuff the observations what do the prophecies say.
Alex
I don't know, Alex......but you're the seer, you tell us.
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2017, 05:19 PM
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I don't know, Alex......but you're the seer, you tell us.
I will get out my hat and place a seeing stone in it then put my face in the hat and all will be shown...just like Joe Smith founder of the Church of Mormon.

No as strange as it may seem I am a strict supporter of scientific method.

My earlier statemrnt was so ludicrous I thought it humerous.

There can be no planet nine simply because of the wild orbit of any body we may observe. For all sorts of reasons the orbit will take any object out of the specs of a planet.
Some may call whatever may be there a planet but the motivation will be attention seeking I suspect.
After all who will be interested in a large rock with a strange and non planet like orbit...another planet however will be newsworthy I suspect.
There may be something but it will not fit the categorization of a planet...or so is such that is my opinion.
Still some will rejoice that some ancient prophecy seems to be real...good for them, facts should not get in the way of belief.
Alex
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2017, 07:01 PM
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Supercomputer ha? Maybe they can find ninth (even tenth) planet using D-wave computer, you never know.
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  #11  
Old 11-08-2017, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
I will get out my hat and place a seeing stone in it then put my face in the hat and all will be shown...just like Joe Smith founder of the Church of Mormon.

No as strange as it may seem I am a strict supporter of scientific method.

My earlier statemrnt was so ludicrous I thought it humerous.

There can be no planet nine simply because of the wild orbit of any body we may observe. For all sorts of reasons the orbit will take any object out of the specs of a planet.
Some may call whatever may be there a planet but the motivation will be attention seeking I suspect.
After all who will be interested in a large rock with a strange and non planet like orbit...another planet however will be newsworthy I suspect.
There may be something but it will not fit the categorization of a planet...or so is such that is my opinion.
Still some will rejoice that some ancient prophecy seems to be real...good for them, facts should not get in the way of belief.
Alex
The proposition that our Sun is part of a binary system, has nothing to do with prophesy or ancient wisdom etc. Here is a link which might be relevant: https://www.sott.net/article/230480-...ns-to-Consider
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  #12  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrophe View Post
OK, but if it were a very small star....like a brown dwarf...could it not be possible that it has remained undetected for all of this time and if its orbit is highly elliptical and it approaches its partner star (our Sun) once in every 26,000 years (a time span which has been suggested on a number of websites I've seen), then its presence would be unknown to humanity, because 26K years ago, we weren't really into astronomy ....well nothing that has come down to us, anyway.
Still no.
A brown dwarf, though dim in visible frequencies, would shine like a lighthouse in the infra red at that distance.
The issue with objects with very elliptical orbits, is that it doesn't take much perturbation to turn then hyperbolic, and out of the solar system they go.
Bear in mind that not only do the orbits of planets/asteroids/comets vary over long time periods, so do the nearest starts.
We are talking incredibly tiny perturbations here, but on a billion year time scale, it's enough to fling objects out.
Various models of the solar system show proto planets being ejected from the solar system.
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  #13  
Old 11-08-2017, 09:45 AM
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I should add, that there is still a quite high probability of finding something larger than Pluto, though it would probably not qualify by the IAU's definition of a planet.
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  #14  
Old 13-08-2017, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieTrooper View Post
Still no.
A brown dwarf, though dim in visible frequencies, would shine like a lighthouse in the infra red at that distance.
The issue with objects with very elliptical orbits, is that it doesn't take much perturbation to turn then hyperbolic, and out of the solar system they go.
Bear in mind that not only do the orbits of planets/asteroids/comets vary over long time periods, so do the nearest starts.
We are talking incredibly tiny perturbations here, but on a billion year time scale, it's enough to fling objects out.
Various models of the solar system show proto planets being ejected from the solar system.
Not sure if you saw this link....it might be relevant: https://www.sott.net/article/230480-...ns-to-Consider
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  #15  
Old 13-08-2017, 05:21 PM
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The proposition that our Sun is part of a binary system, has nothing to do with prophesy or ancient wisdom etc. Here is a link which might be relevant: https://www.sott.net/article/230480-...ns-to-Consider
I looked at all the link you provided which seems no more than the promotion of a book ...

I would say if the author has so many "facts" to draw upon he should be more than well placed to identify the co-ordinates of the binary.

I think one could fairly judge the worth of that link by reading the closing paragraph which I have cut and pasted / posted below.....

" Like Walter Cruttenden writes in Lost Star of Myth and Time, we may be approaching a new Golden Age in terms of our location in orbit about a companion star, but what he doesn't see is that we may have to pass through a cosmic shooting gallery of comets to get there. Perhaps a 'comet cleanse' for the Earth is also part of the process of getting us on the path to a new Golden Age? Seeing the psychopathic control of the planet and the lack of any meaningful change in this regard, it's hard to imagine how a Golden Age could come about without one."

So there seems some subtle link to some prophesy how ancient I will not speculate.
What is this "golden age"???
Does not this reference sound alarm bells?

However if I purchased such a book for the local library I would suggest they keep it in the section where the big foot stories are kept rather than say in the legitimate astronomy section.

Alex
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Old 13-08-2017, 05:44 PM
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I looked up Golden Age in Wiki.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age

Most interesting and suggests if one uses such a term one needs to be specific as to exactly which " golden age" is being referred to.

Alex
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  #17  
Old 13-08-2017, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
I looked up Golden Age in Wiki.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age

Most interesting and suggests if one uses such a term one needs to be specific as to exactly which " golden age" is being referred to.

Alex
Oh Alex...don't tarnish the gold
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Old 14-08-2017, 08:31 AM
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"Comet Cleanse", the way the dinosaurs were comet cleansed?

It's highly entertaining the way astronomical discoveries completely stuff up astrologists. They used to use 6 planets, then 7 then 8, then 12 at one stage (when asteroids 1-4 were thought to be planets).
Now they argue amongst themselves about it. Pluto's demotion was a classic.

Would love for there to actually be another remote planet found, just to watch these idiots scramble trying to work out what to do with it.

Tehehehe
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Old 14-08-2017, 09:21 AM
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I think it is an interesting characteristic of humans (generalisation warning ) the desire or want to believe in so many things that have no basis in terms of a scientific assessment or even a cause and effect analysis....I would like to know the machinery behind tarot cards but followers seem happy to accept that they just work...the mystery seems to just firm up many irrational beliefs.

I don't care what the belief, folk can believe what they wish, but it is strange why so many seek something ,often really offbeat, in which to believe...

And so you get these books where the author gathers up stuff and folk believe it cause its in a book...

And often it is so easy to see an author is grinding an axe.

Alex
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Old 14-08-2017, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
I think it is an interesting characteristic of humans (generalisation warning ) the desire or want to believe in so many things that have no basis in terms of a scientific assessment or even a cause and effect analysis....I would like to know the machinery behind tarot cards but followers seem happy to accept that they just work...the mystery seems to just firm up many irrational beliefs.

I don't care what the belief, folk can believe what they wish, but it is strange why so many seek something ,often really offbeat, in which to believe...

And so you get these books where the author gathers up stuff and folk believe it cause its in a book...

And often it is so easy to see an author is grinding an axe.

Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieTrooper View Post
"Comet Cleanse", the way the dinosaurs were comet cleansed?

It's highly entertaining the way astronomical discoveries completely stuff up astrologists. They used to use 6 planets, then 7 then 8, then 12 at one stage (when asteroids 1-4 were thought to be planets).
Now they argue amongst themselves about it. Pluto's demotion was a classic.

Would love for there to actually be another remote planet found, just to watch these idiots scramble trying to work out what to do with it.

Tehehehe
OK, you guys have made your positions very clear and I believe that I would be right in labeling both of you as thorough going materialists....by that I mean that you only believe in what your physical senses tell you. That's fair enough and you have every right to your opinions, but, where you err, is in believing that your opinions are the be all and end all of things. They are not.

Has it ever occurred to you that every human civilization that has ever existed, has had a belief (in one form or another), in the supernatural? In other words, every civilization has held that the senses do not tell us the whole story of mankind's relationship to the manifested world.
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