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09-12-2008, 10:39 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth
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Well one thing is for sure it sounds to me like a small asian chinese company who paid someone to translate a website into english or something...
No real australian site would do such a thing.
Therefor I am doing my thing today and getting my celestron on thursday as the full moon is about to approach.
Also I am gonna look out for the sky and telescope magazine tomorrow if I can find it.
I am gonna check out what size of the lenses the celestron does take and buy them then accordingly on one of those sites you have suggested.
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09-12-2008, 11:11 PM
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Location: Gateshead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JethroB76
Does this Celestron Powerseeker scope have a built in barlow (ie the Jones-Bird design) ? If so I'm not sure whether I'd be buying it..
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Dunno .... I doubt it , not at that price (4 more surfaces to grind and polish in the doublet = more work and effort) , will more likely require a drop in barlow.
Any owners out there got one and know for sure ?
Last edited by Ian Robinson; 09-12-2008 at 11:41 PM.
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09-12-2008, 11:23 PM
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I thought I read where he mentioned it was shorter than his current scope (900mm), even thought it has a 1000mm focal length.
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09-12-2008, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JethroB76
I thought I read where he mentioned it was shorter than his current scope (900mm), even thought it has a 1000mm focal length.
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That's simply because the secondary bends the right to send it out through the focusor . See the diagram I draw to explain it to him .
Get some graph paper and do a to scale diagram of that Newt's optical config given the mirror size, the secondary size , and the f no , if you need to see why or need more convincing.
Last edited by Ian Robinson; 09-12-2008 at 11:40 PM.
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09-12-2008, 11:31 PM
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09-12-2008, 11:54 PM
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Last edited by Ian Robinson; 10-12-2008 at 12:06 AM.
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10-12-2008, 12:02 AM
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The Celestron page lists an OTA 508mm long, which suggests an internal barlow to me.
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10-12-2008, 12:08 AM
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Location: Gateshead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JethroB76
The Celestron page lists an OTA 508mm long, which suggests an internal barlow to me.
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No mention of a corrector in the focusor anywhere I've looked. The rack + pinion is not exactly LOW PROFILE EITHER that means the focal point is even further outside the tube ==> shorter tube for a given focal length .... do the calcs or a diagram .... look at figure 3.2 in the pdf from Celestron on these scope.
That's it for me , keep us posted Pascal .
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10-12-2008, 01:39 AM
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IIS Member #671
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 11,159
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Someone, please, help the newbie and steer him away from wasting his money on a Dick Smith wobbletronic.
Pascal: www.bintel.com.au or www.andrewscom.com.au
Go there, and buy a Dobsonian. You're a beginner, and that is all you need, for now, at least.
If you're still bent on buying a refractor, then, check out Andrews Communications; they sell Celestron refractors. Personally, if I was you, I'd be looking at the SkyWatcher refractors. They'd be perfect for a beginner at a bargain price.
You're seriously doing yourself a disservice by wasting your money on a Dick Smith telescope.
Regards,
Humayun
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10-12-2008, 02:23 AM
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A dob has already been suggested.
He has seen Bintel, York, AOS sites, I usually don't go to Andrews so forgot them.
He doesn't have a lot of money and has already been stung.
Up to him now.
He could ask Andrew's if they still that preloved Guan Sheng GS-500, complete with SV1 mount/tripod, bonus RA drive, etc. -excellent$349.00
Looks like a good buy.
Last edited by Ian Robinson; 10-12-2008 at 02:36 AM.
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10-12-2008, 08:33 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth
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What is this guan sheng 500 you are talking about ???
I had a look at andrews and the cool thing is they provide free shipping australia wide and saw this one here which I actually really like.
Skywatcher 130 x 900 EQ2
New low price!
$299.00 AUD
Freight free Australia-wide!
-or-
$349.00 AUD with single axis motor drive and hand controller
Freight free Australia-wide!
A very popular and good quality 130mm x 900mm Newtonian reflector on the stable EQ2 equatorial mount with adjustable height aluminium tripod legs.
Optional EQ2 single axis (RA) motor drive with hand controller is normally A$89.00 extra.
But it doesnt say what comes with it and what now...Thats a bit of a problem there is no option to see and ask about each single one .I dont know..But even this one seems nice for the price.
Skywatcher 150 x 1000P EQ3-2
Super low price!
$399.00 AUD
Freight free Australia-wide!
You save A$400 off competitor's website price as @ 07-12-08!
=Yes! HALF competitor's price=
-or-
$549.00 AUD with dual axis motor drives and hand controller
Freight free Australia-wide!
Excellent quality 150mm x 1000mm full focal length Parabolic (P) primary mirror Newtonian reflector on the world-famous EQ3-2 medium duty equatorial mount with adjustable height aluminium tripod legs.
Wouldnt that be good??But I have no clue what comes with it..and if someone can find me that guan sheng you talking about for 349..let me know.no clue what it is but sounds like a good deal
I just came across this one here..looks FANTASTIC!
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/images/...ctor/gs500.jpg
Guan Sheng GS-500 6" f/5
150mm x 750mm on SV1
equatorial mount with tripod
$499.00 AUD
Absolutely outstanding quality and value 150mm x 750mm parabolic mirror Newtonian reflector on the SkyView 1 high grade medium duty equatorial mount with adjustable height aluminium tripod.
Includesa6 x 30 finderscope andpremium GSO 6mm, 9mm, 15mm and 25mm Plossl eyepieces!
And you did mean this one here right?
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/images/...nian/gs580.jpg
Guan Sheng GS-580 6" Limited
150mm x 1200mm
$349.00 AUD
First grade 6" (150mm x 1200mm) Dobsonian reflector with truly outstanding 1/12th surface wave primary and secondary BK7 mirrors.
Features a high grade 1.25" rack and pinion focuser.
Includes a 6 x 30 finderscope and GSO high-grade 9mm and 25mm 1.25" Plossl eyepieces!
What is good bout it? It is still hand movable..I want slo mo controller..Why would that be so much better??
The Skywatcher 150mm looks ways to indulging for me..especially the 1000mm over the 750 of the ghen sung one...But I dont know whats coming with it,if I would know that and pay another 150 on top of the DS one and with free shipping..I might could go for that one though...But I am not sure yet as there are no details provided..wether barlow or not ,if so which one and what lenses and how many..
Always a good question.
Ok ok I think on the telescopeshop.com.au they have the 150mm skywatcher for a price of 594 which is more expensive then andrews.Comes with 2 eyepieces .
Includes Super 25 and 10mm eyepieces.
and
Features F/5 ratio. 6x30 finderscope. equatorial mount with aluminium tripod.
How bout that??
The only thing I dont know is how to buy on the andrews website if I want it.
399..I discussed with my gf last night and I came to the decision to be paying a bit more then I want..But if the 150mm ones is good..let me know..And what lenses 
And I might consider buying a more expensive one this week,they all have slow mo controller ey??they so small to see.
Last edited by neversommer; 10-12-2008 at 09:00 AM.
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10-12-2008, 11:19 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neversommer
What is this guan sheng 500 you are talking about ???
I had a look at andrews and the cool thing is they provide free shipping australia wide and saw this one here which I actually really like.
Skywatcher 130 x 900 EQ2
New low price!
$299.00 AUD
Freight free Australia-wide!
-or-
$349.00 AUD with single axis motor drive and hand controller
Freight free Australia-wide!
A very popular and good quality 130mm x 900mm Newtonian reflector on the stable EQ2 equatorial mount with adjustable height aluminium tripod legs.
Optional EQ2 single axis (RA) motor drive with hand controller is normally A$89.00 extra.
But it doesnt say what comes with it and what now...Thats a bit of a problem there is no option to see and ask about each single one .I dont know..But even this one seems nice for the price.
Skywatcher 150 x 1000P EQ3-2
Super low price!
$399.00 AUD
Freight free Australia-wide!
You save A$400 off competitor's website price as @ 07-12-08!
=Yes! HALF competitor's price=
-or-
$549.00 AUD with dual axis motor drives and hand controller
Freight free Australia-wide!
Excellent quality 150mm x 1000mm full focal length Parabolic (P) primary mirror Newtonian reflector on the world-famous EQ3-2 medium duty equatorial mount with adjustable height aluminium tripod legs.
Wouldnt that be good??But I have no clue what comes with it..and if someone can find me that guan sheng you talking about for 349..let me know.no clue what it is but sounds like a good deal
I just came across this one here..looks FANTASTIC!
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/images/...ctor/gs500.jpg
Guan Sheng GS-500 6" f/5
150mm x 750mm on SV1
equatorial mount with tripod
$499.00 AUD
Absolutely outstanding quality and value 150mm x 750mm parabolic mirror Newtonian reflector on the SkyView 1 high grade medium duty equatorial mount with adjustable height aluminium tripod.
Includesa6 x 30 finderscope andpremium GSO 6mm, 9mm, 15mm and 25mm Plossl eyepieces!
And you did mean this one here right?
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/images/...nian/gs580.jpg
Guan Sheng GS-580 6" Limited
150mm x 1200mm
$349.00 AUD
First grade 6" (150mm x 1200mm) Dobsonian reflector with truly outstanding 1/12th surface wave primary and secondary BK7 mirrors.
Features a high grade 1.25" rack and pinion focuser.
Includes a 6 x 30 finderscope and GSO high-grade 9mm and 25mm 1.25" Plossl eyepieces!
What is good bout it? It is still hand movable..I want slo mo controller..Why would that be so much better??
The Skywatcher 150mm looks ways to indulging for me..especially the 1000mm over the 750 of the ghen sung one...But I dont know whats coming with it,if I would know that and pay another 150 on top of the DS one and with free shipping..I might could go for that one though...But I am not sure yet as there are no details provided..wether barlow or not ,if so which one and what lenses and how many..
Always a good question.
Ok ok I think on the telescopeshop.com.au they have the 150mm skywatcher for a price of 594 which is more expensive then andrews.Comes with 2 eyepieces .
Includes Super 25 and 10mm eyepieces.
and
Features F/5 ratio. 6x30 finderscope. equatorial mount with aluminium tripod.
How bout that??
The only thing I dont know is how to buy on the andrews website if I want it.
399..I discussed with my gf last night and I came to the decision to be paying a bit more then I want..But if the 150mm ones is good..let me know..And what lenses
And I might consider buying a more expensive one this week,they all have slow mo controller ey??they so small to see. |
Ok I fell in love with this one from andrews
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/images/...50x750peq3.jpg
Skywatcher 150 x 1000P EQ3-2
Super low price!
$399.00 AUD
Freight free Australia-wide!
You save A$400 off competitor's website price as @ 07-12-08!
=Yes! HALF competitor's price=
-or-
$549.00 AUD with dual axis motor drives and hand controller
Freight free Australia-wide!
Excellent quality 150mm x 1000mm full focal length Parabolic (P) primary mirror Newtonian reflector on the world-famous EQ3-2 medium duty equatorial mount with adjustable height aluminium tripod legs.
But i dont know what size the lens it has there are no details and on the other sites i cant find any clue wether is 1.25 or 2 as Ian Robinson mentioned.
The Guan Sheng one has a smaller focal lenght but plossl eyepiece lenses..They sound very high quality.
Those ones with the guan sheng
6mm, 9mm, 15mm and 25mm
I want to make today my choice..lets stay with andrews website for the moment.
I am willing to spend 400$ on a telescope..Which one? the 150mm skywatcher sounds very good.
What you guys think?
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10-12-2008, 01:19 PM
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Newtonian power! Love it!
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Mandurah
Posts: 2,597
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I wrote a post in another thread, "Real cost of Astronomy" i think it was, and the point i made in there was pointed at people have information at their hands, if they do not want to heed the advice of people that have done it before let them get stung.
Listern to what we are saying. go with a dobsonian you will not be dissapointed once your competent at navigating your way around the sky get a GEM mount and there you go you hvae a very powerful telescope.
A 6" skywatcher is cheap, same with a 6" GSO. these are all fully mountable on a gem mount for later on! Make your choice but remember our advice.
GSO's from andrews
Guan Sheng GS-580 6" Limited
150mm x 1200mm
$349.00 AUD
SkyWatcher Dobsonian - SW580
is worth 325 landed to your door though York Optical.
your choice make it wisely
Last edited by bmitchell82; 10-12-2008 at 01:30 PM.
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10-12-2008, 01:27 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmitchell82
I wrote a post in another thread, "Real cost of Astronomy" i think it was, and the point i made in there was pointed at people have information at their hands, if they do not want to heed the advice of people that have done it before let them get stung.
Listern to what we are saying. go with a dobsonian you will not be dissapointed once your competent at navigating your way around the sky get a GEM mount and there you go you hvae a very powerful telescope.
A 6" skywatcher is cheap, same with a 6" GSO. these are all fully mountable on a gem mount for later on! Make your choice but remember our advice.
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Taking it like that..those dobsonian seem to be the same like I have to maunally move them around ? They dont look like a slow mo controll to have? How do they look like on the ground? Also they are quite expensive..
What is the difference and why do you recommend such a thing? Just cause I am new?
Those look weird and have limited movement capabilites.
Why not getting the skywatcher 150mm wouldnt that one do a good job? It usually costs a lot of money.
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10-12-2008, 01:29 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Gateshead
Posts: 2,205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neversommer
Ok I fell in love with this one from andrews
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/images/...50x750peq3.jpg
Skywatcher 150 x 1000P EQ3-2
Super low price!
$399.00 AUD
Freight free Australia-wide!
You save A$400 off competitor's website price as @ 07-12-08!
=Yes! HALF competitor's price=
-or-
$549.00 AUD with dual axis motor drives and hand controller
Freight free Australia-wide!
Excellent quality 150mm x 1000mm full focal length Parabolic (P) primary mirror Newtonian reflector on the world-famous EQ3-2 medium duty equatorial mount with adjustable height aluminium tripod legs.
But i dont know what size the lens it has there are no details and on the other sites i cant find any clue wether is 1.25 or 2 as Ian Robinson mentioned.
The Guan Sheng one has a smaller focal lenght but plossl eyepiece lenses..They sound very high quality.
Those ones with the guan sheng
6mm, 9mm, 15mm and 25mm
I want to make today my choice..lets stay with andrews website for the moment.
I am willing to spend 400$ on a telescope..Which one? the 150mm skywatcher sounds very good.
What you guys think? |
Go for it , 6" is always better than 5" in aperture.
- is a pretty basic GEM (the EQ3-2) , the optional dual axis drives will be very handy for tracking stuff and slewing about from one object to another , and if you decide to have a crack at piggy backing a camera or photographing objects (planets, stars, moon, fuzzys at prime focus) later, only thing is COMA at f5 (all fast newtonians and dobs have coma !!!! so you may want to upgrade the focusor later to a 2" low profile crayford and invest in a Baader MFCC or Tele Vue Paracorr Visual to eliminate coma and to flatten the focal plane (not a huge deal at now if you are just looking through it).
A 2" focusor will give you a lot more options than a 1.25" focusor - a low profile crayford focusor is much better than a not so low profile rack and pinion focusor which will beat most helical focusor (unless you want ULTRA LOW PROFILE in the focusor --- sometimes this is needed) ie a 2" focusor allows the use of a coma corrector lens (they are all 2" OD), gives better imaging capacity (less vignetting at prime focus) and you can use any eyepiece commercially available (the standards are 2" , 1.25" and 0.96" OD).
.... Andrews might change the focusor for you to a 2" crayford or a 2" rack and pinion if you ask them before shipping (for a reasonable price).
Important thing - It'll get ya started and it's cheap as chips too !!
You can always upgrade to a better GEM and tripod later - plenty of good GEMs thatll handle a 6" newt + camera and will be solid as a rock and are damb accurate when tracking stars and other objects and have lots of advanced features including GOTO (which is great for the lazy), though you start spending REAL money to get them.
Give Andrews a call and ask what comes with it (what eyepieces ? some nice 1.25" plossyls will be OK at this stage , a 2x barlow would be nice , you might want to add one or two extra eyepieces and a barlow if it doesn't have a barlow).
Last edited by Ian Robinson; 10-12-2008 at 01:46 PM.
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10-12-2008, 01:43 PM
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Newtonian power! Love it!
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Mandurah
Posts: 2,597
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Take a step back pascal look at things logically.
If the skywatcher is 350 and it includes
-mount
-eye peices
-OTA
-and accociated bits
and the Dobsinian costs 350
-has the dobsonian base essentially is wooden though offers great movement and easy to point and shoot so to speak,
-a selection of eye peices.
Where do you think the extra money has gone?
as we can all tell you here, the money has gone into the optics instead of getting a whole heap of stuff you have yet to learn and master.
Mastering the art of seeing is something that is beyond a investment as astronomy isn't just about looking at the moon or seeing a few dots in the sky. And let me tell you the advantage of knowing what your pointing at is invaluable. imagine your in the field, your family is out there, and your batterys die.? all is not lost if you know where your looking. just drive it manually.
Further more to that most of my optical viewing is done though a 20mm eye peice anything under 12mm you wont get to use often for reasons that are stated in many other posts. At 20mm you wont have to move the dob that much just a small bump to keep it rocked onto your target.
Gems are very fiddly and unless your dedicated to sticking it out or can put you off astronomy totally with all the set up and fiddling.
Decide apon these reasons
- Do you want to get out there and start looking
- Do you want to spend a minimum of 10 - 15 min setting up getting everything happy and then do the oppisite in the dark when your finished.
- Do you want to look at photography later
- Do you just want to look?
answering yes to a c d get a dob.
answering yes to b. go the gem.
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10-12-2008, 02:00 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Gateshead
Posts: 2,205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neversommer
Taking it like that..those dobsonian seem to be the same like I have to maunally move them around ? They dont look like a slow mo controll to have? How do they look like on the ground? Also they are quite expensive..
What is the difference and why do you recommend such a thing? Just cause I am new?
Those look weird and have limited movement capabilites.
Why not getting the skywatcher 150mm wouldnt that one do a good job? It usually costs a lot of money.
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Re dobs:
Yes , you have to manually push them about to keep objects in view (you'll get sick of that !!!), and they don't have slow motion controls.
Those cheap ,mass produced dobs don't permit you to rotate the tube to put the eyepiece in locations that make viewing more comfortable ... if you've a bad back that's a serious issue and will detract from your enjoyment seriously.
But they can be set up each night lightning fast - no polar alignment required.
BUT with a GEM , providing the tripod is leveled near enough, the angle of the dangle (corresponding to you latitude) is within cooee and you've pointed the polar axis in the general direction of the South Celestrial Pole - within cooee , for visual observing you'll be fine enough and you'll track well enough for visual observing , and the setting circles will help get you from one interesting object to another - if you bother using or even looking at them (more often it's easier to go to a low X eyepiece and star hop and not even refer to the setting circles or just look at the DEC reading to get into the right part of the sky)
*** accurate polar alignment and leveling is only necessary for photographic imaging via the telescope or piggy back style else you'll get field rotation , then it pays to be a perfectionist ***
You can motorise dobs - costs real money !!
You can put digital setting circles on them too - costs real money !!
Dobs are not so flash for astrophotography unless you add an equatorial platform under the base plate .... cost ya real money unless you make your own , and you will get field rotation in long exposures.
Most the el-cheapo small dobs have base plates made from particle board - the cheap stuff - bad news if they regularly get wet sitting on damp dewy grass - the stuff swells and disintegrates.
There doesn't seem to be a 6" or 8" dob cheaper than the Skywatcher 6" you've settled on (Meade , GSO, Bintel, AOS, other ?? , I think Celestron no longer make dobs) so nothing to be gained in your case - unless someone knows of a good 6 or 8" dobs being sold somewhere in Oz.
Many people buy a dob , and later buy a EQ mount and tripod and tuberings so they have the best of both worlds. A lot to be said for that approach.
Dob's aren't for everyone though.
Here's Skywatcher's site http://skywatchertelescopes.com.au/H...%2cProductName
Looks like the 6" f/5 newt you are interested in has had the GEM downgraded from an EQ4 to the EQ3-2 to lower the selling price.
Did the vendor email back ?
How'd you fair at the bank ?
You've had a really rugged start to your hobby .... cudos to you for sticking with it . It is worth it in the long run - you'll get a lifetime of enjoyment from your telescope , and if your gf likes looking through it too can have heaps of quality time together sharing the night sky - so long as she doesn't commander it .
Last edited by Ian Robinson; 10-12-2008 at 02:57 PM.
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10-12-2008, 02:27 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Robinson
Re dobs:
Yes , you have to manually push them about to keep objects in view (you'll get sick of that !!!), and they don't have slow motion controls.
But they can be set up each night lightning fast - no polar alignment required.
You can motorise dobs - costs real money !!
You can put digital setting circles on them too - costs real money !!
Dobs are not so flash for astrophotography unless you add an equatorial platform under the base plate .... cost ya real money unless you make your own , and you will get field rotation in long exposures.
Most the el-cheapo small dobs have base plates made from particle board - the cheap stuff - bad news if they regularly get wet sitting on damp dewy grass - the stuff swells and disintegrates.
There doesn't seem to be a 6" or 8" dob cheaper than the Skywatcher 6" you've settled on (Meade , GSO, Bintel, AOS, other ?? , I think Celestron no longer make dobs) so nothing to be gained in your case - unless someone knows of a good 6 or 8" dobs being sold somewhere in Oz.
Many people buy a dob , and later buy a EQ mount and tripod and tuberings so they have the best of both worlds. A lot to be said for that approach.
Dob's aren't for everyone though.
Here's Skywatcher's site http://skywatchertelescopes.com.au/H...%2cProductName |
I think I wanna go for the skywatcher 150mm I will give andrews a call once I am on my lunch brake in 15 minutes and see is available.
you mentioned the x50 finderscope right?
Which lens?
Skywatcher 1.25" Plossl eyepiecesTypePrice $(AUD)6.3mm, 7.5mm and 10mm, 12.5mm, 17mm, 20mm, and 25mm$29.00 Each32mm and 40mm$39.00 Each
Skywatcher 1.25" Super Plossl eyepiecesTypePrice $(AUD)6.3mm, 7.5mm, 12.5mm, 17mm and 20mm focal lengths$49.00 Each
This one ok as finderscope ?
Finderscope, 9 x 50 with holder and block base
The updates on the telescope are cool with the camera and all that stuff...can do some good updates and they support then the 1.25 size which i know now.
The DOB just does not seem to attract me at all,but the skywatcher for that price is highly attractive,depending on the options to pay Ill do it today
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10-12-2008, 03:18 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Gateshead
Posts: 2,205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neversommer
I think I wanna go for the skywatcher 150mm I will give andrews a call once I am on my lunch brake in 15 minutes and see is available.
you mentioned the x50 finderscope right?
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yep , a 50mm finderscope is lots better.
Quote:
Which lens?
Skywatcher 1.25" Plossl eyepiecesTypePrice $(AUD)6.3mm, 7.5mm and 10mm, 12.5mm, 17mm, 20mm, and 25mm$29.00 Each32mm and 40mm$39.00 Each
Skywatcher 1.25" Super Plossl eyepiecesTypePrice $(AUD)6.3mm, 7.5mm, 12.5mm, 17mm and 20mm focal lengths$49.00 Each
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at least 2 eyepieces , my choice if it were my money from those above would be : Super Plossl 6.3mm, 12.5mm, and 20mm ,
and a Plossyl 40mm.
If no barlow as standard kit , I'd ask for a 2x barlow (a shorty style if they have one) added too.
That'll give you 119x , 60x (these are good for planet viewing), 37.5x and 19x (great for wide field viewing - will blow you away as you view the Magellanic Clouds , the Milky Way and globulars !!!) , and with the barlow (best for planetary viewing 238x as your max power , you can probably got to 300x with the 6" under good seeing if you want to later with another shorter focal length eyepiece , a Vixen LV or a Orthoscope 5mm). Coma will be more obvious at lower X , unless you buy a coma corrector (later).
At higher X , you'll appreciate the EQ mount and RA drive !!!
Last edited by Ian Robinson; 10-12-2008 at 03:30 PM.
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