A (cheapish) scope for my husband

The Mrs · #1 04-12-2008, 10:20 AM

Hi all!

What a great forum you have here! There's lots of info, however I'm certainly confused!

I'd like to surprise my husband for Christmas with a telescope. Unfortunately I can't afford hundreds of dollars, but surely I can get a decent (read: beginner) one for about $100-$200?

I've been looking in Dick Smith and the Australian Geographic shop but I'm confused as to what's best. I know you all rave about the Dobsonians but do you need to always have that on a table or some sort of stand? Plus I think they are out of my price range.

I know an Alt-Az mount is probably best for us beginners. Is a reflector or refractor better?

We might use the scope for landscapes/birds too.

I've seen the following (all Celestron):

Powerseeker 76mm AZ Reflecting Telescope - $87 (on special) at Dick Smith
http://www.celestron.com/c3/product....D=5&ProdID=521

Powerseeker 127mm EQ Reflecting Telescope - $226 at Dick Smith
http://www.celestron.com/c3/product....D=5&ProdID=501

Astromaster 70mm AZ - $229 at Australian Geographic
http://www.celestron.com/c3/product....=62&ProdID=422

I've just come across this...

http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.st...uct/View/L8255

What are we likely to see with these telescopes? Obviously the moon, but what planets? Star clusters? Galaxies? My husband is very much interested in astronomy (and is using his binoculars a lot to look into the sky) but I'd rather spend a little amount first up for an "entry level" telescope and then if he decides he wants to further his hobby he can get a better one.

Also, once our son grows up, maybe he can use this cheap one?

Any help would be much appreciated!

xelasnave · #2 04-12-2008, 10:42 AM

Welcome to iceinspace from me... you have selected the best site in the world for astronomy in my hummble opinion.

Do you love your husband???
then goto Andrews Communications, Bintel or Astro Optical sites and have a look.
The scopes you are looking at probably is the best way to destroy anyones interest in astronomy.

If money is a concern it is best to buy what will do the job as anything less is an absolute waste...

A 6 inch reflector or a decent 80mm refractor from those mentioned above is a far better choice.

But as a generalisation I would be looking at spending say minimum of $500.

xelasnave · #3 04-12-2008, 10:47 AM

Here you go ...

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

I think you will also find they have some binos 80mm (the width of the "big" lens) and they are about $200...they are fantastic... I love mine and gave up imaging last night simply to cruise the heavens as if I were in a space ship viewing the grandure of it all... I actually prefer them to my 12 inch which sounds strange ..but that is probably just me.

best wishes

alex

The Mrs · #4 04-12-2008, 10:59 AM

Thanks Alex. The binoculars he has now are 10x50 so I don't think it's worth it to spend $200+ for an extra 30mm.

So do you think it's not even worth getting a telescope if you're spending under $500?

dannat (Daniel) · #5 04-12-2008, 11:10 AM

Does he know his way around the sky with the 10x50's? Does he have a planisphere?

You could consider an 80mm spotting scope - it will usually give upright images if you are using it for ground as well. AndrewsComm have long perng ones at reasnable price.

But if you want to seriously look at the sky most here will recommend a newtonian reflecor on dobsonian mount (most just call Dob). they are unsuitable for ground use though IMO. YOu could get either a 6" or 8" for under $500.

xelasnave · #6 04-12-2008, 11:23 AM

All rules have exceptions however I feel the scopes you are considering are really a waste of money..they are the lastest versions of what many in the game refer to as "departement store scopes" good if you want to turn the kids off ever looking thru a scope again.

Persoanlly I would not bother with less than a 6 inch reflector but an 8 inch (still excellent value these days) would be somewhat perfect.

I had a 4 inch which was great and in a dark area it gets you to many objects...

I have "small" binos but they are not the same as the 80mm and lens diameter needs to be looked at different that a subtraction of one size from another... it is about lens area and light gathering ability.

I use a ruff approach to give me a guide... double the radius and multiple by 3 (a ruff application of the radius times 22 divied by 7 thing)

So I get a 27 for a 6inch and a 48 for an 8 inch to give me a ruff relationship of light gathing ability... so the difference between a 6 inch and a 8 inch is not simply 2 inches.... the 8 inch is near double ..this is ruff but I hope you get the drift.

Look at 6 inch dobs and frankly if that is too much just wait until you have the extra cash ...dont think that a "department store scope" can be a stepping stone or if you do see it that way remember that stone is covered in slippery moss inviting a fall.

alex

iceman (Mike) · #7 04-12-2008, 11:27 AM

Hi and

to IIS!

The only problem with a reflector like a dob, is that for terrestrial viewing the images will be upside down.

Unfortunately, any decent refractor on a decent mount will be well out of your budget. You could potentially get a cheap scope for terrestrial viewing but ultimately for astronomy it'll be mostly disappointing, which will either make him want to upgrade soon (when he can get a dob for astronomy and keep the cheap refractor for daytime viewing), or it will make him give up in disgust.

I hope it's the former and not the latter!

xelasnave · #8 04-12-2008, 11:28 AM

I missed Daniels post but it seems the scopes you should consider are even cheaper than I recall...

The main ingredient to good viewing is how dark the sky is...I see you reside in Sydney so if viewing from there one will never see what I see up here in a very dark location...
alex

xelasnave · #9 04-12-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman

Hi and

to IIS!

The only problem with a reflector like a dob, is that for terrestrial viewing the images will be upside down.

Unfortunately, any decent refractor on a decent mount will be well out of your budget. You could potentially get a cheap scope for terrestrial viewing but ultimately for astronomy it'll be mostly disappointing, which will either make him want to upgrade soon (when he can get a dob for astronomy and keep the cheap refractor for daytime viewing), or it will make him give up in disgust.

I hope it's the former and not the latter!

Mike I do use a prism that puts things up the right way on my reflectors on occassion... still for astronomy but I have used it for terrestial viewing ..
they cost little probably take some light but offers opportunity to use a reflector to look at the birds for example.

alex

rmcpb (Rob) · #10 04-12-2008, 11:46 AM

I'll go on another tack, you could consider a Skywatcher 70 x 500 AZ3 from Andrews.

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

I use one as a grab and go for a quick look if I don't have time to set up and cool the reflectors and I find it fun. It will not challenge the bigger scopes at all but it is very effective on the moon, planets (although they are quite small), the brighter nebule, double stars and clusters.

Really easy to use and learn his way around the sky. He would also need a red torch to preserve his night vision and a plansiphere (I use the large Chandler one).

As mentioned before nothing replaces a dark sky so get in touch with the local astro society and attend their new moon nights. Membership in the local astro society would be a great pressie as well as a nice set of larger binos, red torch and planisphere if the scope and accessories are out of budget. I used a pair of 7x50 binos for years before getting my first scope.

Then start saving for next Christmas for the 8" dob

okiscopey (Mike) · #11 04-12-2008, 11:50 AM

You can't get anything worthwhile for $100-$200 for astronomy ... astro scopes start getting reasonable above $350 (if you follow people's suggestions here!)

If the scope is to be used for terrestrial subjects, a spotting scope is probably best.

Try:

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

There's an 80mm one in this 'LP' (Long Perng) section for $349 which will give an upright image and save neck strain due to the angled eyepiece. You will need to mount it on a tripod of course ... perhaps your husband has one already.

I have no connection with Andrews, by the way, but I have one of their 11x70 binoculars and their (Chinese made) stuff is a cut above other Chinese-made goods found in ... ahem ... various shopping mall outlets.

Coen · #12 04-12-2008, 12:44 PM

I am going to go against the grain a little on what people have said here.

I have been interested in Astronomy for many years and after a time away recently purchased a new scope as my previous one finally died after >20 years of service and it was an ex-department store 60mm refractor. it was not perfect but sufficient for most things. Would I buy one again - no, as there are better scopes now for cheaper than what I paid for it second hand 20 odd years ago. Yet it got a number of children interested in Astronomy, was portable and I used it for teaching a number of classes (no I am not a school teacher). I knew what the 60mm would do and more importantly what it would not do.

I recently, given the slow death of the 60mm, purchased a 70mm skywatcher refractor mounted on an EQ1 mount from Andrews (web-site above) for about $150 delivered to the door, they are now $199 - the Australian dollar and all that. I have since purchased a few extra higher quality eyepieces say for around $50-$60. The eyepieces that come with the scope are not too bad for a small scope but would fall over pretty quick in a larger aperture scope. The good thing about good eyepieces is that they independent of the telescope i.e. survive an upgrade.

I am enjoying the 70mm, it is permenantly set-up in the family room, can carry with one hand for a quick out the back door to have a look, the quality of the optics is much better than the 60mm and does nice things giving good views of M42, planets (shadows of Jupiter's moons etc), double stars, 47 Tuc, open clusters etc. It will never be as good as a 6" etc but is, in my opinion, a great starter. Couple it with binoculars (basic 7x50 or 10x50s) and some star charts (there are good quality free ones that are downloadable as pdf's that all you do is print them out) and there is more than enough to have a look at to get started before aperture fever sets in (and it will if there is any level of interest in astronomy).

I have had the small scope for a few months and been splitting double stars, resolving the outer stars of 47 Tuc (globular cluster), enjoying galaxies such as NGC253, 55, 300 etc and the myrid of open clusters around the place - looking forward to Carina coming higher again. It is handy for doing sun projection also which can be interesting now the sun is coming out of its minima.

The other advantage of the 70mm is that the kids use it and learn on it something that might cause concern with a >$300 telescope

Remember no telescope, no matter how good or large will show Hubble style pictures or colours of deep sky objects. Colour is visible in stars (some notice it more than others) more than anything else. Another limiting factor is the atmosphere itself which can limit viewing. Do not get fooled by telescopes that advertise high magnifications, magnification is not everything. great views can be had with only 45x to 150x, my main work-horse eyepieces are 36x, 60x and 90x.

Hope that helps,
Coen

Coen · #13 04-12-2008, 12:52 PM

I should add that I would love a larger scope and will one day, however, mortgage, kids etc. With regards to refractors the 70mm works, the 90mm would be great and the 102mm fantastic the larger ones again even more. A 6 inch or 8 inch reflector would also be great but as the scopes get bigger the portability goes down.

As always, the answer is it depends on what you want to do and what is the current level of interest is.

jungle11 (Greg) · #14 04-12-2008, 01:21 PM

Hi - I'm not going to advise on a scope for your husband - being a typical male I got the biggest one I could afford. (afford?!? hmmm)

But, a free option to learn the night sky is a program called Stellarium. I found it alot more intuitive for a beginner to put what you observe into perspective. The program can show you where the constellations are in the sky in real time.

Just look through the last 2 pages (most recent) of Beginners Start Here and you'll find the link.

Trust me - it's brilliant!

cheers

jjjnettie (Jeanette) · #15 04-12-2008, 01:38 PM

Hi,
If your husband is enjoying the night sky already, using his 10x50 binoculars, the views he will get through a 60mm, 70mm or a 76mm telescope will be very disappointing. A binocular view of our universe can be spectacular, peering through a small scope with only one eye can be very ordinary.
So , what I suggest is to buy him a pair of zoom binoculars.
Andrews Communications has a pair of of 12-36x70mm zoom binos for just $100. http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-11.htm
You would need to buy a tripod adaptor to go with them, because they would be too heavy to hold steady in your hands.
Oh and you would possibly have to buy a tripod too, if you don't have one already.
Good luck with your decision.

The Mrs · #16 04-12-2008, 02:43 PM

WOW! Thanks for all the great replies

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannat

Does he know his way around the sky with the 10x50's? Does he have a planisphere?

Daniel, I'm pretty sure he does. He's always showing me things with their technical terms

. He doesn't have a planisphere. I was going to get some kind of atlas/star map/book sorta thing to go with the telescope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

The main ingredient to good viewing is how dark the sky is...I see you reside in Sydney so if viewing from there one will never see what I see up here in a very dark location...

Good point! We're on the outskirts and it's pretty dark here too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmcpb

I'll go on another tack, you could consider a Skywatcher 70 x 500 AZ3 from Andrews.

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

I use one as a grab and go for a quick look if I don't have time to set up and cool the reflectors and I find it fun. It will not challenge the bigger scopes at all but it is very effective on the moon, planets (although they are quite small), the brighter nebule, double stars and clusters.

Thanks for the suggestion. From the specs that I can find, and comparing it to the three I posted above, why would the skywatcher be better than the 127mm or 76mm Celestrons? On the skywatcher website I can only find the model 70x700mm and this seems quite similar to the Celestron 76mm. I'm guessing the one you have suggested is 500mm focal length and not the 700 that I've posted.

The 76AZ Celestron is 76mm apperture, 700mm focal length and 9.21 focal ratio. The 127mm Celestron is 5in apperture, 1000mm focal length, 7.87 focal ratio. What's wrong with this if it's a longer focal length and apperture?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

Hi,
If your husband is enjoying the night sky already, using his 10x50 binoculars, the views he will get through a 60mm, 70mm or a 76mm telescope will be very disappointing. A binocular view of our universe can be spectacular, peering through a small scope with only one eye can be very ordinary.
So , what I suggest is to buy him a pair of zoom binoculars.
Andrews Communications has a pair of of 12-36x70mm zoom binos for just $100. http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-11.htm
You would need to buy a tripod adaptor to go with them, because they would be too heavy to hold steady in your hands.
Oh and you would possibly have to buy a tripod too, if you don't have one already.
Good luck with your decision.

That's another idea I guess! Thanks for pointing out that we'll get a much better look with two eyes. Never thought of that!

Coen, thanks for your informative post. I'm sure most people have started somewhere with some kind of "department store telescope". I doubt that people decide to stargaze and go and jump in and buy a 1500+ dollar scope!

Jungle11, thanks for the info on the stellarium. I will definitely check that out.

Thanks again for all your comments!

rmcpb (Rob) · #17 04-12-2008, 03:05 PM

I only suggested that scope because I have one just like it and its a little ripper. The mount is well and truely solid enough for it and its a pleasure to use.

dannat (Daniel) · #18 04-12-2008, 03:13 PM

most of the zoom binos I have seen the upper range of the zoom range is unasable - the images are terrible ie in the 12-36x, once you get to abobv 15-20x the images degrade and detail is lost

The Mrs · #19 04-12-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmcpb

I only suggested that scope because I have one just like it and its a little ripper. The mount is well and truely solid enough for it and its a pleasure to use.

Thanks Rob! So essentially, the Celestron with similar specs would be a little ripper too?!

Coen · #20 04-12-2008, 05:07 PM

The 76mm reflector does not readily equate to a 70mm refractor. The secondary of the reflector has an impact on the light gathering power: the 76mm reflector might equate to or be worse than the 70mm depending on the secondary.

The 20mm eyepiece included with the reflector would be okay, the 4mm well... and the 3x barlow well... I assume the eyepieces are 1.25 inch in which case can readily get better ones. So probably only getting one eyepiece that would be readily useable.

I can not comment on the optics of the 76mm reflector, never had a Celestron - do remember wishing I could have one of the orange C8's back when i was in school though

. I know the optics of my 70mm refractor are good.