"Help" I need your opinion - Page 3

[1ponders] (Paul) · #41 05-01-2005, 09:27 PM

I agree with Starkler. At least 1 lense @ around 35mm or longer. Hmmmm! I know I had a list of Nagler prices here somewhere

iceman (Mike) · #42 06-01-2005, 06:32 AM

Wow you only got an 8" dob 2 weeks ago!

What don't you like about the dob? Do you desperately want tracking and goto?

Are you sure you should rush into such a purchase after only 2 weeks into the hobby? Do you know if your interest in astronomy is going to last?

I'm not trying to put you off or anything, it's your money to do with what you choose, but i'm just thinking of other beginners who started out just like yourself (mintsauce and frosty are 2 that have signed up, there may be others lurking as guests), who think that their 8" dob is a great purchase, as everyone recommended it as a good first scope, but now 2 weeks later you're off to much better and more expensive pastures.

I'd hate for other beginners to think that this hobby requires you to spend > $5000 just 2 weeks after they've already spent $500 on their first scope.

The reason people start out with cheaper scopes like dobs is because they are cheap, convenient, easy to use, and it lets you get into the hobby and all its joys without outlaying too much money, at the very least to see if you actually enjoy stargazing. You might find that the combination of bad weather, clouds, wind, cold, dark, light pollution, dew, bad seeing all put you off actually getting out under the stars and observing.. so that's why more experienced people than myself recommend dobs for beginners.

As Dave47Tuc says, the best scope you can get is the one that gets used.. You've only had your dob for a couple of weeks - how many nights have you actually been out and spent a couple of hours observing?

Anyway of course it's totally your decision.. if you can afford another new scope straight away then that's great.. i'd be careful about lying to the wife about its cost though - the initial outlay is only the start as Paul and Stuart have said.. this can be a very expensive hobby if someone wants it to be. If you start lying now you may never be able to go back and you'll always be hiding your purchases from her. Anyway again that's your decision and isn't really my business.

I'll stop ranting, I just don't want other beginners to think that 8" dobs are no good and that they'll have to spend > $5000 on a new scope 2 weeks later. It's not a common timeframe for such a transition. Many people have had (and continue to have) many years of enjoyment with dobs and enjoy pushing it to its limits.

Also remember, all of my thoughts above are my personal thoughts and opinions only, of course you can choose to ignore them or take them with a grain of salt of whatever you wish.

Good luck with your next decisions, it sounds like you're learning a lot which is great.

Striker (Tony) · #43 06-01-2005, 08:26 AM

Good to hear from you Iceman....its been awhile.....your comment could not be any truer........my 8"dob is great...the only thing I dont like about the dob is the comfort level....I dont have the best of a back, so I decided to put the dob 8 on a EQ, so I originaly started looking at HEQ5 or EQ6 mounts.....the cost of these mounts then pushed me onto a complete package with 10" reflector not costing that much more then buying the mount on its own.......then with this cost the LX90 come into view price wize....I may still get the LX90 but I would love to get into some Photograghy.....I am a pro when it comes to computer's I have built my last 3 computers on my own.......I can just honestly see my self scanning the skies through my computer taking photo's more so then using the dob 8. I understand completely that pictures are very difficult to take and dont turn out anywhere near the real view you get in you FOV but thats what attracts me to this sport more then anything.....I have plenty of time on my hands....I am married...I have no Kids...and I want a long term sport such as this to keep me busy......for the last 5 years of my life I have be playing competative online gaming such as Day of Defeat, Counter Strike and many more games..I am sick of that scene and at 35 years old (man thats old), so combining my computer skills with a sport such as astronomy looks the best option for me.

I understand your concern Iceman and appreciate your comment.......if I didn't decide to get into astrophotography I would have just put my dob on the EQ or even a homemade stand I have seen on these forums.

Going back to a good scope is one you use, well thats how I feal about the dob...dont get me wrong..the Dob 8 is great but not for my back and from what I understand not for photograhy aswell......

Anyone out their with a Dob...please dont get put of by my comments I am only a noob with stuff all experience who has to much time to himself who loves to buy expensive items.

iceman (Mike) · #44 06-01-2005, 09:49 AM

Hey Tony.

This whole thread was started while I was away, so I had some catching up to do

What's uncomfortable for you and your back about the dob? Is it the leaning over? It's true that by default you'll have to lean over when looking through your dob, but you'll still have to lean over (perhaps to a less extent) when looking through those LX200's or Celestrons.. you'll still be bent at the top of the back/neck looking down into an eyepiece. You can't really get away from it if you choose to stand while observing.

There are other options than a whole new scope though..

Buy or make an observing chair, like I have done. These chairs are great for viewing with a dob, because with the adjustable height you can get a comfortable position where you're sitting, back isn't strained, and you can look for many minutes at a time through the eyepiece without getting strain on your back or neck. You can see heaps more detail when you're sitting comfortable and not wobbling around and having to stretch and stand up all the time.

Another option is to make (or buy) another base (or table) to sit your existing dob base on.. this will lift it up much higher so you can stand comfortably and not have to bend over much when looking through the eyepiece. Late_crataceous (forum member) has made one of these, it lifts it up about an extra 30cm.. do a forum search and you'll find his pictures.

As for astrophotography, I won't kid you and say it's easy to take photos through a dob, but it can be done easily.. it's simply that the results generally won't reach the same level that you will get with a computerised tracking scope. But that's really just the mount, not the scope. An EQ mount with your OTA will work fine for that.

But you just don't know yet whether you'll be into astrophotography.. trying it with a dob is a good way to start, simply with a digital camera (or webcam) pointing straight into the eyepiece (or focuser). That's the method I use for all of the images I've taken. It can be frustrating, but there's also a challenge in pushing your equipment to its limits. Astrophotography is really more photography than astronomy.. it takes a lot of time, patience, and money to do it well..

Anyway your background in computers and gaming is very similar to my own, but I didn't play CS or DOD

Skills in computers definitely can help in this hobby, as if you get into photography there's a lot of post-processing skills and techniques needed, and any background in computers and software will help.

With time on your hands and money at your disposal, I can see the reason for the direction you're choosing.. if I had the money i'd probably be looking at exactly the same scope(s), but I'd probably only be looking at them now, rather than after only 2 weeks of owning the dob.

But with a mortgage and kids, my priorities in life are different and I can't afford to upgrade yet.. when I do I imagine i'll be getting a SkyScan EQ6 goto mount and keep my existing OTA..

Good luck anyway Tony, good to have some frank and open discussions!

Striker (Tony) · #45 06-01-2005, 02:20 PM

Funny you say you would get a goto EQ mount..that is still an option for me, I can get this for much cheaper price and possibly add GPS for as little as $600extra at a later date.

http://www.celestron.com/prod_pgs/tel/c10ngt.htm

Then I wouldn't have to worry about extra's such as a wedge.
I may sound desperate and come to think of it probably am, but most retailers dont have any scopes that I like in stock and wont be available for approx a month anyway, I have definetly decide to get a new scope so that is confirmed...but what I have found from reading these forums, is they are all as good as each other as long as use them...when I started the post I was expecting someone to jump in say buy this but from what I have learned their is many types and many brands that can do the job, so I am going to take a step back and look at wider range...may even look at just a goto EQmount for my Dob? time will tell.

If I was to buy a new Scope I would love to purchase this of A.S.S.T Norman park which is the group that I am viewing with on the 16th January 2005...but he only deals with Celestron not Meade, he has his own shop and is always so helpful....I can gain much experience and information of this group and would feal much more comfortable purchasing off then some unkown retailer that dont care about their customers..just the purchase, as you all know I am noob so I need guidance.

Starkler (Geoff) · #46 06-01-2005, 08:28 PM

Just a few thoughts to add to this thread.

Myself, Dave47tuc and a few others had a mini star party last weekend and guess what, the views through my ole gso 10 inch dob were just as good on dso's and viewing saturn as with his 10 inch LX200. Perhaps just slightly more light scatter on mine viewing saturn, but I put that down to my using a barlow to get the required magnification.

As for comfort improvements, I find the RACI finder and my stool a big help. The only time I'm contorting into unusual positions is to look through the Rigel quickfinder, although still usually seated.

Setting up the LX200 requires some weightlifting, whereas for me home observing is just a matter of wheeling the scope out on a trolley.

Geoff

P.S If you just like spending money, buy yourself a 12mm nagler type 4, and a 27mm panoptic. You might just see viewing through your dob in a whole new light

jackenau · #47 06-01-2005, 10:15 PM

Don't get me wrong here, but with a back ailment and the scopes you are looking at, will this still pose a problem with portability etc.

Astrophotography etc will obviously be more of an advantage with the new scopes, but will be no good if its to the detriment of your back?

Either way good luck with your descision.

Ken M

Striker (Tony) · #48 07-01-2005, 07:37 AM

OK.....last question regarding this thread.....Sorry

Comparing the Meade LX200 series to the Celestron advanced series C-9 1/4 SGT with the CG-5 mount...plus the GPS ad on.

1)What are the benifits over these 2 different mounts?

2)Wouldn't the EQ mount be better then having additional cost for a wedge in the Meade or celestron Nexstar GPS Range?

3)Potability should be easier then the fork mount?

4)For the same dollars would you consider the C-11" SGT with the GPS ad on to the Meade LX200 10".

Celestron C-11 SGT

Celestron C-9 1/4 SGT

Meade LX200 8" 10"

I know their both great scopes...and I am prefering the Meade at this stage but the Celestron advance series has caught my eye and then I can also purchase localy.

I am mainly intersted in comments about the mounts....

Positive and negative feedback welcome.

[1ponders] (Paul) · #49 07-01-2005, 10:47 AM

Tony

Physical benefit of Eq over fork: no need for a wedge (can increase likelihood of movement in mount/fork junction), overall the mount would be a lot lighter to move around and set up.

Benefits of fork (with auto align etc) over eq: no need for polar aligning in Alt/Az mode, just point roughly north-south (within a couple of degrees) and let the computer set it up (apart for picking your alignment stars)

You will find yourself getting into some pretty uncomfortable positions for viewing at times with an eq, (particularly near the zenith) but initial visual polar aligning with a wedged fork is not as straight forward as it would seem either.

None of the models you've listed would be considered lightweight and "easily" portable. The 10" tube and fork (without tripod) weight nearly 30kg, which then has to be balanced on a protruding bolt until you can slide the fork mount around for the bolt to find the hole to slot into. I'm sure Rumples Riot and Aragorn can attest to the fun of this. Its hard enough with my 8" (until I built a "springy thingy").

Personally having had both I wold go back to a *sturdy* eq over lx200 mount if given a choice again, if only from the weight perspective, and being more used to setting up a eq for polar alignment. Having said that thoughI do enjoy using the versatility of the LX200 mounts drivability and ease of use in Alt/Az mode

BTW the mount that the 10'' newt is mounted on in this link http://www.celestron.com/prod_pgs/tel/c10ngt.htm is very light weight for the job being asked of it. You could find a lot of flexure in it, especieally if you start mounting cameras etc off it.

Having said all this it is only IMHO.

Good luck with your choices Tony.

Striker (Tony) · #50 07-01-2005, 02:01 PM

Thanks paul......

It looks like I am going to go for the Celestron C9 1/4 SGT with XLT coating and ad on GPS.

http://www.celestron.com/prod_pgs/ac...ccessories.htm

http://www.celestron.com/prod_pgs/tel/c914sgt.htm

Accessories I am looking to get are as follows.

1) Power tank 17, http://www.celestron.com/prod_pgs/ac...r_supplies.htm

2) AC adapter, in same above link

3) Next Image solar system Imager, http://www.celestron.com/neximage/index.htm

4) Not sure on the Nexremote kit so Brian is checking this out and looking for alternatives.

5) Ad on GPS,

Eyepieces are going to wait till after I have had a chance to see some in action through the club or if I get a chance to see what paul has.

Brian did recommend the Ultima Series 1 1/4" 30 or 35 mm but again I will wait before spending hundreds on a single eyepiece.

I do want good eyepieces.....I would rather a few good quality then a heap of cheap'os.

[1ponders] (Paul) · #51 07-01-2005, 07:55 PM

You can save yourself some cash if you go to Repco/Autobarn.Supercheap Auto for the powerpack. And is the Solar system imager any better than the ToUcam (How do the prices compare?)

Whats the Nexremote

beren · #52 09-01-2005, 03:08 AM

http://www.cloudynights.com/lab/mounts/asm.pdf

Tony you might find this review on the CG5 mount interesting . I would feel a little cautious about how well the mount can hold the 91/4 OTA plus any future accessories you might add later on.Doing a little snopping around the package seems to get favourable views but for peace of mind i would be questioning its max payload capability {half that for dedicated imaging}etc. Im biased to fork mounts ,although heavier the ease of use for ALT/az makes the effort worthwhile and with the wedge both modes feel well supported for imaging , i think it would take some time to reach a stage where ability exceeds the performance rendered by a fork mounted SCT {well for me anywhy}. But this pathway will cost more but i would rather be troubled by a overmounted scope{

} then a undermounted one....{nexstar 9 1/4

}

The add on GPS , with the meade gps i feel its more gimmick ,entering time and date takes 10 seconds manually to get the same result , dont know how much the celestron add on costs but use the money elsewhere.

The celestron powerpack looks impressive but you can get something else for much cheaper , i got a 17amp one from Kmart for 95 and lasts about 3 good nights of viewing before recharging. I ended up getting a 35 amp lead sealed battery to run a orion dew zapper {and a laptop}which draines the powerpack in about 3 hrs {its recommended to run only one device off a 12v source}

If the AC adaptor is expensive like meades i would consider the car adaptor , but thats me i have both and use the car adaptor more.

Nexremote is the Autosuite comparsion , and youll need it to run the Nexstar imager unless its like the LPI and you can use some other capture software.

The Ultima 30mm/35mm has a hefty price tag for basically a 50 "AFOV plossl , theres some widefield budget eyepieces that would be a better alternative .

Striker (Tony) · #53 09-01-2005, 11:15 AM

Thanks Aragorn..you have given me something to think about....

I have organised to visit and speak to a Customer that has the same package as I am looking at........

I think the biggest factor to my choice is that I can get all the help I need from someone local.......

But I am looking at cost, ease of set-up and portability into the equasion aswell......

A.S.S.T at Norman Park Brisbane only deal with Celestron and would feal more comfortable and looked after purchasing from him....

The price he has given me have virtualy been cost plus a small percentage but he is happy to make just a few hundred dollars on the complete package....he has shown me the Celestron book with the cost and retail prices.

Prices Quoted

9 1/4 SGT with XLT Coatings = $ 3950
Add on GPS $ 450
Celestron 17 amp battery pack $ 180
AC adaptor $ 30
NexImage Retail $295 awaiting price...said to get it at cost price.

the best price I have had for the Meade LX200 10" is $5200 plus a wedge and without any support........

For me I am not sure the extra $1200 for the Meade LX series is justified....

Is the fork Mount really that good and popular......I have been reading up on many magazines and have rarely seen fork mounted scopes displayed in group photo's...they all seem to use EQ mounts whatever the scope is......Dont get me wrong I love the Meade range but Brian from the A.S.S.T shop would like to see me with a EQ mount then Fork mount....as a seller you would think he would try to get me into the more expensive Nexstar GPS fork mount range that I previously asking for if that was the case........Oh well I have a lot to learn yet and I'm sure I will be happy with either the Meade LX 200 10" or the Advanced Celestron range in the 9 1/4 SGT.

Once I get to see Paul's (1ponders) set up on Tuesday and the Celestron range in action I will make my decission probably by the end of the week.

Thanks for your comments everyone.

Striker (Tony) · #54 11-01-2005, 02:29 PM

After meeting up with Paul (1ponders) today I have decided the Meade LX200 8" or 10" is the go for me....I may even purchase the Meade today......come on Striker you can do it....hehe

Thankyou to everyone who has given feedback to this post, all you opinion are fully justified and much appreciated.

Thanks again

P.S BTW Paul I forgot to ask you for friggin $5000 worth of Meade scope can you train it mow the lawn considering it only works at night and has all day time to rest....hehehe

iceman (Mike) · #55 11-01-2005, 02:33 PM

What are you going to do with your dob? I reckon there'd be a taker or 2 if you chose to list it in the buy/sell forum.. some guest browsing might sign up and take it off your hands.

Good luck with the new scope!

[1ponders] (Paul) · #56 11-01-2005, 02:54 PM

Put it to work during the day. Spend $45 and get some solar filter material and look at sunspots. Then of course you've go Ha filters too.

Keep you Dob. Its still nice to have a quick whip out scope (keep it clean guys

) for those nights when the clouds suddenly clear for half an hour.

Striker (Tony) · #57 11-01-2005, 06:16 PM

OK I have my Meade LX200 10" UHTC in my possesion.....

I will be selling the Brand new 8" dob.....and will throw in a free set binoculas aswell (10 x 32 ) brand new valued at $49...still in box.

No need to keep both...anyway I need the cash for extra eye pieces and Battery pack...and laptop and more.....not getting the wedge for now..I want to learn a lot more about this sport before I look at wedges.....got heaps to learn so major adons can wait....

The only extra I bought was the 240v powers supply.....
I will be getting a battery tank but will look around first and eypieces will also wait till i have a chance to see them on scopes myself....

Star Optics does have the Meade Series 4000 2x Apochromatic Barlow Lens (1.25") for $139 if anyone is interested....

Paul (1ponders) will be helping me out setting up the scope and showing me some features.....probably this friday night....Thanks Paul.

[1ponders] (Paul) · #58 11-01-2005, 06:55 PM

thanks Tony

Just what we needed. Another 4 weeks of cloudy weather

Striker (Tony) · #59 11-01-2005, 07:08 PM

No No Paul...I guarantee clear weather this friday night as long as it doesn't hail because of Cyclone Kerry hovering of our east coast....hahaha...