I am wanting to test a Skywatcher AZ/EQ 5 (tripod or pier) and an iOptron AZ Mount Pro to see how they handle my Orion EON 120mm refractor.
My reading on various forums suggests that both mounts may have trouble of one sort or another with 120mm and larger refractors. Yet other reading suggests no problem at all. I suppose the best thing to do is to test my refractor on those mounts before committing $$ to buy one.
If you are within say a one hour drive of the ACT and are willing to meet and let me try my refractor on your mount, I would be like to hear from you either via this thread or via PM if that suits you better.
The refractor weighs just under 7 kg and all the other bits and pieces (mounting rings, RDF, 2in diagonal and the heaviest EP I have) add another 2 kg for an all up weight of 9 kg. The manufacturers' data on both mounts suggest they can carry more than that.
I have a Skywatcher HEQ5 that is happy to carry this refractor without a second thought but an ALT/AZ mount has the attraction avoiding those awkward viewing positions that an EQ mount offers from time to time and "simpler" alignment.
I know careful attention to balance in AZ and ALT is important and that a short extension pier may be needed to ensure the scope does not hit the tripod legs when positioning near zenith.
I know the Skywatcher AZ/EQ 6 would have no problem with my refractor but alas I have lifted and carried it's mount head and come to the conclusion that in a few years time I will probably be too difficult to carry and setup hence the interest in lighter weight mounts.
If you have either mount and have used a refractor similar to mine on, I would like to hear about your experiences.
If you have any suggesst on accessories I should consider for either mount I would like to hear from you.
For those that have an AZ/EQ 5, is it compatible with the HEQ5 tripod without the need for any adaptors?
If you have suggestions on other mounts with ALT/AZ and goto capabilities that I should consider then I would like to hear about them. The dual scope feature on these two mounts isn't that important to me - they just happen to have them.
Hi Ed,
I'm using an AZ-EQ5 pier version with an Explore Scientific AR127 5" doublet in alt/az mode and love it. My scope comes in around the same weight as yours. Your scope is a little longer at f/7.5 so I guess that could make for slightly more difficulty, but there's not that much in it. I've never noticed any problems at all with the mount's ability to carry this scope. I will note that my mount came with just under 1mm play in the az worm (alt was sweet though). To their credit, Skywatcher (Tasco) quickly tuned the mount for me after I approached them about it. I'm expecting the mount back tomorrow - so that took just over a week to tune it up for me. No problems with their after sales support.
I guess at the end of the day it might get down to how fussy you are too. I'm visual only, and had the same issue with the AZ-EQ6 - it didn't cost that much more, but the weight was killing the deal. I have reasons for requiring lighter gear than I used to use No more lugging a 15" Obsession around sadly. So it all gets down to compromise at the end of the day I guess. For my use, the AZ-EQ5 with an ES AR127 is an awesome pairing and I just love it.
I did look into the iOptron mounts when I was researching the AZ-EQ5 / 6 but I kept finding bad feedback about them. I spoke to an iOptron dealer who I trust as well, and we both agreed that for my requirements, the AZ-EQ5 was the superior mount.
In retrospect, given the after sales support that I received from Skywatcher - choosing the AZ-EQ5 for me was a solid move.
I know you did not mention astrophotography at all, but should you wish to ever go down that path, I would avoid the AZ-EQ5, as there are numerous reports, including by one Australian dealer, of vibration that seems not able to be dampened at this stage. It likely explains why the AZ-EQ5 is NOT a strong seller. Not an issue per se for visual, but for imaging, it's a deal breaker.
iOptron on the other hand....no, I won't comment. Just don't.
Stick with the EQ5 for now or consider the AZ-EQ6 (which will more than adequately handle it)
CatznStars... A while back I had the chance to try an AP130GTX (f/7, focal length 910mm) on an altaz push-to setup consisting of a DM6 mount with encoders and a Nexus II, connected via WiFI to SkySafari running on an iPhone. With that focal length and aperture, this rig was dead easy to setup (5 minutes), alignment was excellent and the stars don't move so fast that tracking is an issue.
The key thing is that SkySafari showed very accurately where the scope is pointing - and I mean DEAD ON TARGET - you really don't need GOTO - just push the scope to whatever you want to look at, centre it in SkySafari and it will be spot on. If anything GOTO is a hindrance. And even better - no messy batteries and cables dangling underneath to get snagged in things.
I subsequently built a similar one using an ED130 triplet APO from TelescopService in Germany on a Losmandy AZ8, with the encoders and Nexus II fitted by Serge at AstroDevices. Testing it indicated that the blind pointing accuracy was under 5 minutes of arc, reliably.
I can confirm this was a great setup and suggest you consider either the Losmandy AZ8 mount or DM4 with encoders fitted, with a Nexus II. The DM6 is overkill frankly. The Losmandy AZ8 isn't as steady as the DM6, but it does do a side-by-side setup (2 scopes), it has worm drives and superb adjustable drag clutches whereas the DM4/DM6 cannot do a side-by-side setup and have no clutches (just friction), but they do work well when adjusted and the scope is balanced, rather like a good dobsonian.
FWIW I was subsequently offered a 9" maksutov with exquisite optics and - with some pangs of remorse - sold everything to fund that and a new mount to match it. With a focal length of 3100mm the max field of view is just 40 arc minutes, and capable of 450X so at high power tracking is essential. This is on an AZEQ6.
With this however I am still using SkySafari to select what I want to look up, taking the object name from that and manually entering it in the Synscan handset to make the scope slew to it.
A push-to setup eliminates all of that and is a LOT easier to use. GOTO IMHO is a bad half-assed 1990s way of thinking.
As your scope has a much wider field of view and is unlikely to go past 220X tracking is not critical so push-to should be fine.
Thanks for responding to my post. Your experience with play in the AZ worm in the AZ/EQ 5 seems consistent with what I have read about this mount. The support you received from Tasco sounds encouraging. I would be interested to find out how your mount goes after its return.
My reading re this mount has been that the moment arm of a longish refractor may cause vibration problems in the AZ mode - that's why I am looking for someone local (within say 1 hour of the ACT) to test it out. Some people love this mount - others - not so much.
It was interesting that the iOptron dealer suggested that the AZ/EQ 5 was the better mount for you. Can you tell me the dealer's name (via PM if you like)?
I've got an HEQ5 for astrophotography - which I am in the very early stages of. Just getting a little tired of odd viewing positions during visual use.
The AZ/EQ 6 would be a no-brainer for me except the weight could become a problem for me in the not too distant future.
I'd be interested to hear you comments about iOptron - via PM maybe? Earlier AZ mounts by them have had their issues but some of the reading I have done about the newer AZ Mount Pro sound encouraging (if you take the time to balance them properly).
Your comments about the DM4, DM6 and AZ8 is food for thought. kind of wish I was at this stage a few months ago when you put your AZ8 up for sale
What did you think of the tripod that came with the AZ8? Was it sturdy enough for your ED130 triplet?
My reading of the DM4 specs was that it will handle 18 pounds so the 9kg (20 pounds) of my setup might be a bit too much for it. Perhaps the DM6 would be better?
I'm still interested in finding examples of each mount and testing my refractor on them. Maybe both will be flops - but at least I'll be an informed buyer or avoider.
Unfortunately I don't live close enough to meet your testing requirements, but I do own the iOptron AZ Mount Pro, and can offer this advice. I believe you are correct in assuming that it is the length of refractor OTA's that pose an issue with stability on AZ mounts. I use a heavy 6 inch Maksutov Cassegrain on the AZ Mount Pro, with two counter weights, and there are no issues at all in GoTo, slewing, tracking, focusing vibrations etc. The weight of this OTA with diagonal, finder, heavy eyepiece etc is over 9.5kg. The iOptron AZ Mount Pro comes with a heavier duty tripod than previous models. I have also increased stability by adding an after market lower tripod tray/spreaders.
I also own the venerable Vixen FL-102s APO refractor, and this only weighs in at about 5.5kg with accessories, but at f8.8 the physical length is 1003mm with diagonal and dew-shield. It required the mini pier attachment to the AZ Mount Pro to avoid hitting the tripod legs at zenith, but this attachment is very solid and stable. However, I found that there is considerably more vibration with this scope - it settles quickly - but without the micro 10-1 focus control, it would be a nuisance. It is also prone to vibration from wind, - in fact this is the main source of vibration, - but I'm talking a considerable breeze that also puts dobs etc out of action. I also have a Takahashi FC-76 that is f7.9 and shorter and lighter - 4kg - than the Vixen, and posed no issues with vibration - but still needs the mini pier on top of the AZ Mount Pro. By the way, this latest version of AZ mount from iOptron looks very similar to earlier versions, but is considerably different internally. Belt driven (very quiet), internal Lithium Ion re-chargeable battery (10 hrs use), wifi with dedicated app for sky safari (works brilliantly), built in GPS. I love this mount for visual use, and portability. I owned a Skywatcher HEQ5Pro, but the iOptron is far more versatile for my needs. Set up is less than 10 minutes, and the mount finds itself and tests its orientation automatically, then goes to an object. Just needs initial levelling, and balancing the OTA - as do most mounts!
In summary, I believe you will experience some initial vibration, not because of the weight, but more likely the length - although it is slightly shorter than my Vixen. Actually the heavier weight may dampen or resist any wind caused vibrations. Good luck with your decision.
Unfortunately I don't live close enough to meet your testing requirements, but I do own the iOptron AZ Mount Pro, and can offer this advice. I believe you are correct in assuming that it is the length of refractor OTA's that pose an issue with stability on AZ mounts. I use a heavy 6 inch Maksutov Cassegrain on the AZ Mount Pro, with two counter weights, and there are no issues at all in GoTo, slewing, tracking, focusing vibrations etc. The weight of this OTA with diagonal, finder, heavy eyepiece etc is over 9.5kg. The iOptron AZ Mount Pro comes with a heavier duty tripod than previous models. I have also increased stability by adding an after market lower tripod tray/spreaders.
I also own the venerable Vixen FL-102s APO refractor, and this only weighs in at about 5.5kg with accessories, but at f8.8 the physical length is 1003mm with diagonal and dew-shield. It required the mini pier attachment to the AZ Mount Pro to avoid hitting the tripod legs at zenith, but this attachment is very solid and stable. However, I found that there is considerably more vibration with this scope - it settles quickly - but without the micro 10-1 focus control, it would be a nuisance. It is also prone to vibration from wind, - in fact this is the main source of vibration, - but I'm talking a considerable breeze that also puts dobs etc out of action. I also have a Takahashi FC-76 that is f7.9 and shorter and lighter - 4kg - than the Vixen, and posed no issues with vibration - but still needs the mini pier on top of the AZ Mount Pro. By the way, this latest version of AZ mount from iOptron looks very similar to earlier versions, but is considerably different internally. Belt driven (very quiet), internal Lithium Ion re-chargeable battery (10 hrs use), wifi with dedicated app for sky safari (works brilliantly), built in GPS. I love this mount for visual use, and portability. I owned a Skywatcher HEQ5Pro, but the iOptron is far more versatile for my needs. Set up is less than 10 minutes, and the mount finds itself and tests its orientation automatically, then goes to an object. Just needs initial levelling, and balancing the OTA - as do most mounts!
In summary, I believe you will experience some initial vibration, not because of the weight, but more likely the length - although it is slightly shorter than my Vixen. Actually the heavier weight may dampen or resist any wind caused vibrations. Good luck with your decision.
Buck (Paul)
Hi Paul.
Glad to hear you are getting a good run from your AZ mount pro and spreaders.
I've just finished building my own custom tripod and have done some re-designing of the spreaders and tripod extender for this project.. the full system is amazing in how well it carries my Equinox 120ED and compares favourably with my much modified mini tower. Changing over to Teflon clutch also helps with stability I have found .
With alignment I just do a straight manual one and don't bother with the auto dancing stuff, much quicker and very reliable.
As you mentioned with the stepper motors belt driving the worm it results in a very quiet operation indeed. All in all a great little mount and probably one of the best out there for visual viewing.
Unfortunately because it's software does not support EQ mode I do not have any use for my wedge on this mount so that's left for my mini tower for that mode.
Cheers
Graham.
Tried setting the position as the South Pole (latitude -90) ?
Sorry, I don't understand what your getting at there in relation to my comment of using the wedge on this new Alt/AZ mount which does not support EQ.
Cheers
Graham.
OK... An equatorial mount anywhere in the southern hemisphere is equivalent to an altaz mount at the south pole.
Put your mount on the wedge and aim the az axis at the south pole. In the handset, set its position at latitude -90 degrees - not your actual altitude. Although it thinks its an altaz mount it will function as an equatorial.
Hmm the iOptron bashers are at it again I see , grows old fast but each to his own .
Anyway , I had a loved an iOptron IEQ45 for about 3 years in Darwin and in all that time it did not miss a beat and if you know anything about the NT weather , scopes and mounts get thrashed for a full 6 months of the ' Dry ' season day after day as we got perfect nights and you use them .
Mine went from holding a sweet 127mm triplet ( heavier than an ED120 ) to my iStar 127mm f8 ( heavier again ) then a Takahashi M210 , it did not miss a beat carrying these .
I sold it when I moved to Perth and got an HEQ5 and as good as it was it was not as easy to use or as solid ( yes it was mounted on the HD tripod in the photo ) , so please don't right off iOptron .
On that I hear good things about the AZEQ5 and it will carry an ED120 with ease .
With respect to my AZ-EQ5 being serviced - it arrived back yesterday. I was able to test it last night and am happy to report that they did indeed manage to adjust the mesh to remove the small amount of free play from the AZ worm. No complaints with the level of service offered by Skywatcher / Tasco.
No more lugging a 15" Obsession around sadly. So it all gets down to compromise at the end of the day I guess. For my use, the AZ-EQ5 with an ES AR127 is an awesome pairing and I just love it.
, scopes and mounts get thrashed for a full 6 months of the ' Dry ' season day after day as we got perfect nights and you use them .
