Noob looking for a stacker

[cadman342001 (Andy)]

Hey there,

I have introduced myself on the Beginners board if you would like to see that.

I'm looking for a tracker for taking astro photos with my dslr. I have a very sturdy tripod and have done some astro work before with WA lenses but I now have an old nikkor manual focus 300mm f/2.8 AI prime lens that I would like to use to view nebulae etc. so am gonna need a tracker for longer exposures.

I have a Nikon D600 (FX) and D7000 (DX)

So, bearing in mind the weight of the 300mm plus D600 = 2450g + 850g = 3.3KG, what are my tracking options ? I'm assuming the weight is too much for the iOptron Skytracker, so that leaves the AstroTrac ? any decent ones coming out of China yet ? (I ask because automated extreme focus rails are now available for half the price of the previous only option the StackShot by Cognysis). What about the Sky Watcher Star Adventurer ?

I'm semi retired so looking for cheap, quality, easy to set up ! aren't we all ?


Thanks in advance

Andy

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

They're saying the new modus operandi is to take a lot of short shots on hi iso and stack them.
Give it a try.

[JA]

Hi Andy,

Well you could start right away with NO further equipment in the meantime on some bright objects. 300mm f2.8 for 2 sec at iso800-1600, maybe lower,and then combine/stack the images. The D600 has wide dynamic range and should allow you to pull things out of the darkness in post processing.

Other than that look for 2nd hand EQ5 or NEQ6 for ~$700 to $1000 or so. Of course these are MUCH beefier mounts, compared with the iOptron Skytracker you mentioned, but should serve you well for a long time, and when you're done easily sold on.

Best
JA

[skysurfer]

The Star Adventurer (A$540) is really a nice tracker. It will*carry even your D600 + 300mm f/2.8 as it can carry 5kg.
You only have to add a sturdy tripod.

[sil (Steve)]

Originally Posted by jenchris

They're saying the new modus operandi is to take a lot of short shots on hi iso and stack them.
Give it a try.

Works for me, but you need skill and patience for the processing, its not an in-camera result.

I review the STC Astro-Multispectra Clip Filter for Nikon Full Frame on this forum which greatly helps kill light pollution for clearer nebulosity shots and I think would be good for you to look into.

As for tracking, just pick up a second hand EQ mount/tripod assembly without the telescope on top. you can pickup dovetail plates which you can screw into the tripod socket on a camera then mount directly onto the EQ mount. You should be able to find an EQ5 second hand for a good price. Unless you need everything to pack into a small bag theres no problem using any telescope tracking mount just substituting a camera for the optical tube assembly (OTA). You still have the same problem with polar aligning for the tracking or star alignment to work. Plus power is also seperate issue, especially the heavy duty trackers they may take AA batteries but they wont last long. You need something like a jump starter power tank for car emergenies with the cigarette lighter sockets. Most people use one of these to power their astrogear without risking having to push the car home with flat battery, others rig up their own 12V battery bank but powering from lighter sockets is pretty standard in this hobby.

[pluto (Hugh)]

+1 for Star Adventurer. With that weight and focal length/pixel scale you should be able to get nice 30-60 second exposures without guiding.

[cadman342001 (Andy)]

Thanks Sil,

Couple of Q's if I may -

1. Is there light pollution in the Far North ? I'm in Cairns

2. I currently do extreme macro work which usually involves hundreds of images stacked in post to produce the final image. That's not to say I have the skill and patience you mention !

3. Where on earth would I find these EQ5 mounts of which you speak ?

You are mostly correct in that the transportability of the rig is not an issue as I am/will be generally using a vehicle to get to remote sites and the car starter pack is easy enough but I would like to do the odd shot involving say a waterfall etc. in the shot and the kit needs to be somewhat portable for that as they are not always accessible.

Are there any online tutorials for the method of taking lots of short exposures and stacking them in post ?

Cheers

Andy

Originally Posted by sil

Works for me, but you need skill and patience for the processing, its not an in-camera result.

I review the STC Astro-Multispectra Clip Filter for Nikon Full Frame on this forum which greatly helps kill light pollution for clearer nebulosity shots and I think would be good for you to look into.

As for tracking, just pick up a second hand EQ mount/tripod assembly without the telescope on top. you can pickup dovetail plates which you can screw into the tripod socket on a camera then mount directly onto the EQ mount. You should be able to find an EQ5 second hand for a good price. Unless you need everything to pack into a small bag theres no problem using any telescope tracking mount just substituting a camera for the optical tube assembly (OTA). You still have the same problem with polar aligning for the tracking or star alignment to work. Plus power is also seperate issue, especially the heavy duty trackers they may take AA batteries but they wont last long. You need something like a jump starter power tank for car emergenies with the cigarette lighter sockets. Most people use one of these to power their astrogear without risking having to push the car home with flat battery, others rig up their own 12V battery bank but powering from lighter sockets is pretty standard in this hobby.

[Atmos (Colin)]

I use an older HEQ5 but an EQ5 with RA drive would be all that's needed. Quite light and portable.
Would suggest getting a QHY Polemaster while you're at it

[raymo]

Keep your eye on the classifieds here in IIS; EQ5s with electric drives
come up pretty frequently. Astro Petes is a good retailer of gear in
Queensland.
raymo

[Manav (Yugant)]

I use of have an EQ6 and its pretty big and I remember EQ5's werent much different.

Is EQ3 better suited?

[cadman342001 (Andy)]

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Regarding EQ3/5/6 mounts, how much do they go for used? I'm pretty funds limited, the $599 for the Star Adventurer kit is about the max.

So can I get that kinda deal on a used EQ5 ? (not including a car starter battery pack to power it)

$300 for the Polemaster (which I know I will need either way !!!)

What worries me about the Star Adventurer is the fact that you have to set up the Polar Alignment and THEN mount the camera / lens which may mess it up. I think this is also true of the iOptron and the Vixen Polarie (?) but not the AstroTrac

Not a problem using an EQ mount I presume.

Andy

[pluto (Hugh)]

Originally Posted by cadman342001

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Regarding EQ3/5/6 mounts, how much do they go for used? I'm pretty funds limited, the $599 for the Star Adventurer kit is about the max.

So can I get that kinda deal on a used EQ5 ? (not including a car starter battery pack to power it)

$300 for the Polemaster (which I know I will need either way !!!)

What worries me about the Star Adventurer is the fact that you have to set up the Polar Alignment and THEN mount the camera / lens which may mess it up. I think this is also true of the iOptron and the Vixen Polarie (?) but not the AstroTrac

Not a problem using an EQ mount I presume.

Andy

EQ3, 5, and 6 mounts are all very different from each other, both in size/weight and function/ability. (there's also the HEQ5 which is smaller than, but similar to, an EQ6)
An EQ5 would be fine for what you want to do but it's not as portable as a Star Adventurer.

I think the issue you mention with the Star Adventurer only applies if you're going to use the polar scope to align. If you're going to get a Polemaster you shouldn't need to worry about that as I think the Polemaster can be mounted at the same time as your camera (if you use the right angle dovetail plate thing which comes with the Astro package - which you should as it's much better than just attaching a head directly to the mount)
Personally I've never used the polar scope and I generally drift align if I'm going to do anything serious with it and I've never had a problem detaching my guide scope, which I use to drift align, and attaching my scope+camera or camera+lens.

If you can get a cheap deal on an EQ5 then that's probably better, especially if it's got the goto controller as that has it's own alignment and polar alignment software I think. Just know that the EQ5 is bigger and heavier and you'll need 12v to power it (unlike the SA which is powered by either 4AAs or a 5v usb pack)
Accuracy wise I don't think the EQ5 is any more accurate than the SA when properly polar aligned, at least in my experience, but then the EQ5 does have tracking on both RA and DEC whereas the SA tracks only on RA.

Also the SA can be used as a pan head for timelapses too, bonus!

[Manav (Yugant)]

To be honest if you getting EQ5 I wouldnt bother getting polemaster. Save the money and drift align....

[LaughingBeagles (Peter)]

All sounds like a foreign language doesn't it?!? I'm a noob as well and have done a stack of reading to make sense of all this. This YouTube give a quick am dirty guide to what it means:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=35E9Lqjypz8

Basically, an equatorial mount (EQ Mount) is best for tracking stars for happy snapping. The EQ3/4/5/6 etc refers to a model and when boiled down to it, is all about how much payload they can carry. Not surprisingly, 3 can carry less than 5, which is less than six. Again not surprisingly, the 5 is a good mid way so if you decide to start hanging scopes and whatnot off the mount, you have some future proofing to do so.

Being new, go for something like an NEQ5 Pro, which means there's a fair bit you can get the mount to do for you without having to do a masters in Astronomy first (they are called goto mounts because you tell the mount to slew (go to) a star, nebulae, cluster etc of choice.

Second hand is somewhere between about $500-$1500, NEQ5 Pro second hand should be looking around the $500-$600 or so mark.

Hope that helps

[sil (Steve)]

Originally Posted by cadman342001

Not a problem using an EQ mount I presume.

Andy

Nope Polar alignment is required and critical for EQ mounts if you want to image.

Polar alignment so the mount rotates along with the axis of the earth as it rotates. THEN you do a star alignment if you are using a GOTO mount so it can point to specific objects for you. Even if you knock up a simple barndoor mount it requires precise (NOT approximate) polar alignment to be effective.

No you don't NEED to polar align the vixen polarie and THEN mount your camera, it can be done with a camera in place, depends how you align it i think. I never take my camera off to align my polarie.

[cadman342001 (Andy)]

Originally Posted by LaughingBeagles

All sounds like a foreign language doesn't it?!? I'm a noob as well and have done a stack of reading to make sense of all this. This YouTube give a quick am dirty guide to what it means:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=35E9Lqjypz8

Basically, an equatorial mount (EQ Mount) is best for tracking stars for happy snapping. The EQ3/4/5/6 etc refers to a model and when boiled down to it, is all about how much payload they can carry. Not surprisingly, 3 can carry less than 5, which is less than six. Again not surprisingly, the 5 is a good mid way so if you decide to start hanging scopes and whatnot off the mount, you have some future proofing to do so.

Being new, go for something like an NEQ5 Pro, which means there's a fair bit you can get the mount to do for you without having to do a masters in Astronomy first (they are called goto mounts because you tell the mount to slew (go to) a star, nebulae, cluster etc of choice.

Second hand is somewhere between about $500-$1500, NEQ5 Pro second hand should be looking around the $500-$600 or so mark.

Hope that helps

Thanks Peter.

I'm confused by your last sentence regarding prices though. Can you explain what is 500-1500 if an NEQ5 Pro is 500-600 ?

Andy

[cadman342001 (Andy)]

Here's where I am right now, I have 600 bucks burning a hole in my pocket, I'm visiting my daughter in Surfers and camping in and around the NP of the GC Hinterland for a month mid June to mid July and wanted to do some AP / timelapse stuff while I'm there.

I'll be flying there from Cairns with carry on and checked luggage 20KG and then using her car

I guess that means I'm going to be getting a tracker rather than an EQ mount. When I return to Cairns we'll see how I go and I may add an EQ mount/tripod for more local AP.

Sound ok ?

I just have 1 question then, the tripod I have for photography is an INDURO AT413 alloy. It is quite solid yet lightweight with big tubular legs and up to 172cm tall. Would this be ok for AP ?

https://www.amazon.com/Induro-Alloy-.../dp/B002SXMRUS


What can I do to make it "better" for AP ? - hang weight off the centre pole hook, don't extend the legs ? Obviously don't extend the centre column.
Anything else ?

Cheers

Andy

[LaughingBeagles (Peter)]

Sorry for not being clear Andy,

I have found that NEQ5's go for around the $500 - $600 mark and the NEQ6 is around the $1300 plus mark (second hand).

There's an NEQ6 for sale here on our forums but without a tripod (ie the head only) Add in a new tripod and it's nearly the cost of a new NEQ6 so I figure folks are hanging off due to cost.

Not sure that clears it up or makes it worse!!

Re your tripod - checkout Lonely Speck. This guy uses a tripod and camera and has spectacular results.

[cadman342001 (Andy)]

No worries mate. $1300 is too much for me.

I found this EQ5 Sky Watcher mount new on ebay, is it a good price ?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Skywatche...3D302223375693

and the iOptron SkyTracker Pro is 25% off at Adorama

https://www.adorama.com/atstpro.html

or this

https://www.adorama.com/atsmarteqp.html

Astroshop Australia have the Sky-Watcher / Saxon HEQ5 Pro GoTo Equatorial Mount for $1295

Arrrgghh !

[pluto (Hugh)]

That EQ5 on ebay doesn't have enough information IMO. It doesn't show a hand controller so I'm not sure if it even has motors.

Given what you want to use it for, your budget, and the fact you already have a good tripod I really don't see why the Star Adventurer isn't top of your list...?

It would be my choice if I were in your position - I own a Star Adventurer and an EQ6 and have in the past owned an EQ5 and an iOptron Skytracker. I haven't used the "pro" version of the iOptron Skytracker but I'd definitely still take the Star Adventurer due to the right angle mounting plate which allows for a much better mounting position, plus counterweights. Also you can guide the Star Adventurer if you really want which I don't think the iOptron can do.

That SmartEQ Pro looks pretty good but I haven't used one. And an HEQ5 is good but much heavier. I guess it's about portability and how much you want to spend...