I have been trying to use the skyx for the first time with the new paramount MX and am really having trouble with calibration. the mount is connected properly and so is the camera, it homes fine and the pointing seems to work pretty well but clearly my polar alignment is a little off or the scope shifts slightly in its rings when slewing because i don't actually get the target in the FOV. having said that, the scope looks like it is pointing right at the object in the sky. with that done, i try to do a model through automatic calibration and it keeps on returning error 733 the index is out of range. i have set it to look at the max area (10 FOV's) but it just doesnt work. occasionally it will find its location and add the pointing data. the strangest thing is that i did have a run that worked perfectly, i used the information to make PA corrections and now i can't pick up any locations again. i didnt make any changes between the runs ... the QHY9 does have a flipped image, could this be impacting it? i can't find a setting to address this.
autoguider calibration has been an issue too. ...
I am pretty sure that that error doesn't always mean that it hasn't been able to plate solve the image, more so that it is too far outside of the accepted pointing location. I am using an EQ6 Pro, I find I either get this when it is too far off of polar alignment or sometimes after having done a successful model and "Accurate Polar Alignment" routine.
I have personally found that it works best if after doing a model and proposed corrections:
• I tell T-Point that I have finished my calibration data.
• Take an image, run image link and then resync to a portable mount (keeps Super Model) and begins a recalibration model.
If I end up having an issue after that I park the mount, double check that the mount is in correct park position (syncing sometimes moves it), wipe all calibration data and start again. Takes an extra 90 seconds.
Your MX should be far more TSX friendly than it is to EQMOD
I think you need to use the "All Sky" page for Image Linking. To use it though you need to download the All Sky data base which is quite large (a gig). I think that will get you going.
I can really relate to what you are going through with this type of mount and getting one's head around the initial polar alignment. I actually resorted to taking my camera off. The All Sky solution was designed just for this type of problem.
Unclick use all sky image link for automated pointing runs in the Automated Pointing Run window. For some reason that caused my Tpoint to not plate solve and it took me a while to discover that. As Peter points out you must need to download a database for that to work. I should do that too. It could be handy. I am downloading it now. Its 1.6gb and is at the SB Support site.
I find its best to use the Take Image and Link Photo to get the actual image scale and enter that into the automated pointing run box. If you can't run that image link TPoint wont work either.
Make sure you have the binning of the camera set correctly and the image scale for that binning. I was using 5 second 2x2 binning and then doubled the image scale that was reported for 1x1 binning. Make sure you are using the luminance filter. Make sure its a long enough exposure to give enough stars.
Try that and see how it goes. I find no trouble with my Proline 16803 as it gives lots of stars but found it hit and miss with the Trius 694 (mostly miss!).
I tend to use 1 second 3x3 bin with a QHY9 and don't have any problems at all with Image Link. I have actually tested to see whether it is a problem with the plate solving but I discovered what was happening is that T-Point is saying that the point is too far from where it should be.
What I did try doing once was every time it came up with that error I would pause the automated run, take an image and manually run Image Link. A lot of the time it would find the location within two seconds, if I went to manually add it to the pointing model it would come up with a warning message asking me if I wanted to add a point that was so far out from correct so as to not cause problems with the calibration data (it assuming that it is just a statistical anomaly and shouldn't be added).
Unclick use all sky image link for automated pointing runs in the Automated Pointing Run window. For some reason that caused my Tpoint to not plate solve and it took me a while to discover that. As Peter points out you must need to download a database for that to work. I should do that too. It could be handy. I am downloading it now. Its 1.6gb and is at the SB Support site.
I find its best to use the Take Image and Link Photo to get the actual image scale and enter that into the automated pointing run box. If you can't run that image link TPoint wont work either.
Make sure you have the binning of the camera set correctly and the image scale for that binning. I was using 5 second 2x2 binning and then doubled the image scale that was reported for 1x1 binning. Make sure you are using the luminance filter. Make sure its a long enough exposure to give enough stars.
Try that and see how it goes. I find no trouble with my Proline 16803 as it gives lots of stars but found it hit and miss with the Trius 694 (mostly miss!).
Greg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRejto
Hi Aiden,
I think you need to use the "All Sky" page for Image Linking. To use it though you need to download the All Sky data base which is quite large (a gig). I think that will get you going.
I can really relate to what you are going through with this type of mount and getting one's head around the initial polar alignment. I actually resorted to taking my camera off. The All Sky solution was designed just for this type of problem.
Peter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atmos
I am pretty sure that that error doesn't always mean that it hasn't been able to plate solve the image, more so that it is too far outside of the accepted pointing location. I am using an EQ6 Pro, I find I either get this when it is too far off of polar alignment or sometimes after having done a successful model and "Accurate Polar Alignment" routine.
I have personally found that it works best if after doing a model and proposed corrections:
• I tell T-Point that I have finished my calibration data.
• Take an image, run image link and then resync to a portable mount (keeps Super Model) and begins a recalibration model.
If I end up having an issue after that I park the mount, double check that the mount is in correct park position (syncing sometimes moves it), wipe all calibration data and start again. Takes an extra 90 seconds.
Your MX should be far more TSX friendly than it is to EQMOD
thanks for the help guys, i was running EQMOD and astrotortilla before and it was much more user friendly (that is saying something) i did run take an image and link it, it was picking up the rotation and scale easily enough. also with the plate solving, i think worked but it was too far out of the location it thought it was pointing. i was going to ask if there was all sky plate solving in the software, i am downloading it now. hopefully this sorts it out, then i need to deal with the autoguiding issue. one day i will be able to take a picture
just adding to this, it doesnt appear to be a PA issue, i am taking 4 min subs with no star trails (i could never do that with my EQ6), the date and time are also correct. it must be flexure in the scope and possibly the mount is not 100% level. i did have to adjust for the cement ground which was not perfect so it might still be a little out
Please go into TheSkyX->Tools->Preferences->Advanced and set the Bad pointing sample criterion(degrees) to a large value such as 10. That will eliminate the 733 index is out of range error. Also, a new TheSkyX daily build was released last night. If you haven't already fetched it, please do so now.
Also once you've installed the All Sky database and check the box in the automated tpoint run to use it then that may also solve your problem.
I was unaware you had to download a special all sky database for the all-sky option to work and found it was preventing me from getting plate solves with tpoint runs and it took me a few days to discover this a few months ago!
Its a complex program but the more I use it the more I like it. Its a world and its worth exploring.
Please go into TheSkyX->Tools->Preferences->Advanced and set the Bad pointing sample criterion(degrees) to a large value such as 10. That will eliminate the 733 index is out of range error. Also, a new TheSkyX daily build was released last night. If you haven't already fetched it, please do so now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley
Also once you've installed the All Sky database and check the box in the automated tpoint run to use it then that may also solve your problem.
I was unaware you had to download a special all sky database for the all-sky option to work and found it was preventing me from getting plate solves with tpoint runs and it took me a few days to discover this a few months ago!
Its a complex program but the more I use it the more I like it. Its a world and its worth exploring.
Greg.
thanks, i will give it a go and report back tonight
Last night i had the camera working for a couple of hours before it decided to pack up and during that time i was able to capture a decent set of calibration points, around 50. using all sky and expanding the bad plate solving error sorted that out. But i am getting some really strange results. I have attached an image of the output. in some instances the star appears to be on the other side of the sky to the mount location. the date time and location are correct, it is definitely pointing south, and when the telescope points to a target it looks like it is pointing at the right spot so i cant understand the strange data that i am getting. i attempted a super model but got an error as well (seen in the attached screen grab).
Those are certainly terrible pointing results. Did you click on supermodel afterwards? Also, did you do a quick polar alignment before all this? That should get you much better pointing right off the bat.
The sample data appearing to be "on the other side of the sky" is just Tpoint's way of noting the side of the mount, beyond the pole and the like.
I know it's a stupid question, but you did go into "Telescope ->Tools ->Bisque TCS ->Utilities ->Hemisphere Setup" and set the mount for Southern Hemisphere operations, right? You probably couldn't even get this far if you hadn't.
I am wondering if this is a few false hits with the All Sky attempt? It could potentially take one really false hit to push the RMS way out and have it look further afield for all subsequent plate solves. I still haven't gotten around to trying the All Sky thing yet though.
Those are certainly terrible pointing results. Did you click on supermodel afterwards? Also, did you do a quick polar alignment before all this? That should get you much better pointing right off the bat.
The sample data appearing to be "on the other side of the sky" is just Tpoint's way of noting the side of the mount, beyond the pole and the like.
I know it's a stupid question, but you did go into "Telescope ->Tools ->Bisque TCS ->Utilities ->Hemisphere Setup" and set the mount for Southern Hemisphere operations, right? You probably couldn't even get this far if you hadn't.
no question is stupid enough, but yes i did set it to the southern hemisphere. i had my EQ6 set up in the same location before and polar aligned well. i lined up the pier to that and set up the mount. the first polar alignment run i did was moderately successful and i made the minor tweaks to correct the PA. the results now give me multiple degrees out of PA which is strange because i was running 4 min subs as a test and they were coming out perfectly so i dont think the PA is out much at all. i did click on super model after the calibration run.
I am wondering if this is a few false hits with the All Sky attempt? It could potentially take one really false hit to push the RMS way out and have it look further afield for all subsequent plate solves. I still haven't gotten around to trying the All Sky thing yet though.
possibly. it looks like the first half of the images were giving me really strange results, like 120 degrees out and 12 hours out, the others were more reasonable, a few degrees or a couple of hours out (still more than i think it actually is) even when i eliminate these from the data set i cant egt the super model to run ...
is it possible that it is picking up false stars, should i reduce the sensitivity and give it another go?
It looks like the mount is not sync'd or is set to the wrong hemisphere. Those errors are massive. 5533 arc sec circle for the errors is way huge. It should be more like 200 or less depending on your mount.
I had this happen with the AP1600 when it was not starting from a known position ie. in AP's case a known park position. When I parked it properly first then manually got it centre a bright star and then sync the mount with that it was all good.
With PMX I had it happen that even though the Sky X said southern hemisphere it wasn't. I had to click on set to southern hemisphere again in TCS and it took a little while and then a lot of the numbers changed and it was fine after that. It was trying to point to northern coordinates.
PMX etc mounts still need to be synced. So check that out.
It looks like the mount is not sync'd or is set to the wrong hemisphere. Those errors are massive. 5533 arc sec circle for the errors is way huge. It should be more like 200 or less depending on your mount.
I had this happen with the AP1600 when it was not starting from a known position ie. in AP's case a known park position. When I parked it properly first then manually got it centre a bright star and then sync the mount with that it was all good.
With PMX I had it happen that even though the Sky X said southern hemisphere it wasn't. I had to click on set to southern hemisphere again in TCS and it took a little while and then a lot of the numbers changed and it was fine after that. It was trying to point to northern coordinates.
PMX etc mounts still need to be synced. So check that out.
Greg.
Hi Greg, apart from homing the mount, i did not perform a sync. the guys from bisque say that ideally the Tpoint model will make this unnecessary. i will sync it next time i am down there (unfortunately i only get to troubleshoot these issues once a week), still doesn't really account for the issues though... the hemisphere is definitely set to south in TCS (attached)
ideally the Tpoint model will make this unnecessary.
When Patrick says that, he means it in an ideal world in theory sort of way. That's the way he thinks it should work. And he's right, it really should work that way. But in practice I don't think TheSkyX and/or the mount is able to handle that at the moment. I think it still needs the sync. I could be wrong of course!
The only time you need to do a sync is immediately before doing a full calibration. An image link and sync (take photo, plate solve it, and sync on the plate solved image) is most accurate. You normally don't need to and don't want to do a sync at any other time. Just the one sync before a full calibration.
