Go Back   IceInSpace > Equipment > Astrophotography and Imaging Equipment and Discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #21  
Old 09-04-2008, 11:43 AM
Bassnut's Avatar
Bassnut (Fred)
Narrowfield rules!

Bassnut is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,772
Your disapointment is a shame Eric, you obviously have the nouse and patience to overcome hard problems, learning the 40D would be one of the esaier ones. The features that you and others have mentioned are real and usfull, and the Cannon app is simple and stable. I would say try a bit harder and you will be happy with it. I dont understand the white balance problem, it is not applied to RAW at all, and can easily be tweaked in PS. Astro apps will soon have 40D drivers added.

Having said all that, I understand you are very familiar with your 350D, and you may be happier going with what you know.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-04-2008, 12:00 PM
tornado33
Registered User

tornado33 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Posts: 3,931
Hi Eric
Gee thats a bummer.
Heres 2 single Eta carina subs, 1 taken with no filter at all, so shows IR and vis. light, 5 mins ISO200the other with uv/ir and UHCS filter ISO400, 600 sec exposure. All taken with 6 inch f3.6 SN.

I use Iris to process my images, it does not use white balance, so it makes no difference wether I use AWB or now, it simply debayers the raw image and rebayers it with no colour balance, as there are more green pixels on the chip than red or blue, the resultant image has strong green cast, Iris also processes in linear mode, so the stacked image at first looks terrible, see the 3rd pic which is 4x5 mins ISO200 unfiltered. After balancing the colour and stretching levels wuith "dynamic stretching" function, and increasing colour bacance the 4th image is the result. Do your 350D subs look like mine in colour?

With the 40D was it modded with clear glass or a modified IR cut filter.

Also I checked with Hutech, the daylight front filter they say wont work with EFS lenses (of which I have) meaning Id need to get a screw in one, but Id still need the front mounted one to use my telephoto lenses for daylight work, I will brobably instead go the whole way of buying a 450D bost for daylight use and one off Hutech for astro and IR daylight work
Scott
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (IMG_8135.JPG)
103.1 KB21 views
Click for full-size image (IMG_8074.JPG)
103.8 KB24 views
Click for full-size image (test.jpg)
105.5 KB21 views
Click for full-size image (etacar4x5minsunf6inchqg.jpg)
196.8 KB30 views
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-04-2008, 12:03 PM
iceman's Avatar
iceman (Mike)
Sir Post a Lot!

iceman is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gosford, NSW, Australia
Posts: 36,709
Start using RAW instead of jpeg and it might solve your problems, Eric.

Maybe that's why you're frustrated with it.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-04-2008, 04:47 PM
EzyStyles's Avatar
EzyStyles (Eric)
I HATE COMA!

EzyStyles is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 3,208
Thanks for your thoughts guys. i haven't even grasp using RAW mode yet letting alone using this at all. I was 20 minutes late asking Leon back for the 20D as i know DSLR Focus works with the 20D.

Again, really appreicated for your input and replies into convincing me to stick with the 40D. I know it is an absolute dream of a camera for astro stuff, but grade 1 cannot possibly do year 12 maths. i think all in all, it is just the bad experience which had put me off it completely. have tried to like it, but the simplicity of a 350d is just nice for me. maybe 450d modded might be the way to go?

Tried using IRIS to prcess my images but don't think IRIS likes jpg's . need to learn RAW ... no point 14bit raw if i havent even done 12bit.

Sorry for any let downs i don't normally winge but kinda feel like what the hell stuff it atm. Also moved house etc and setting my scope up takes even much longer than before ,,just bits and pieces added up. might have a break from imaging .
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-04-2008, 04:56 PM
Bassnut's Avatar
Bassnut (Fred)
Narrowfield rules!

Bassnut is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,772
Awe, come on Eric, just select RAW before shooting, and one click convert/save as TIFF in the Canon "digital photo professional" app. Then continue in IP or whatever as usual.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-04-2008, 04:58 PM
EzyStyles's Avatar
EzyStyles (Eric)
I HATE COMA!

EzyStyles is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 3,208
hope no one thinks im looking for sympathy or anything, just triyng to share my experience thats all. Thanks Fred, i know i kknow.. normally use DSS hmm..hm

heres a single shot in jpg from last night after adjustment colour balance (alot of playing around) but still...it shouldnt require all that much.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (ASTRO_0065.jpg)
169.0 KB70 views

Last edited by EzyStyles; 09-04-2008 at 05:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-04-2008, 07:30 PM
skwinty's Avatar
skwinty (Steve)
E pur si muove

skwinty is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 494
40 D filters and shaker

Hi Fred and Eric
I found a better pic showed the different filters and how the shaker fits in.
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (selfcleaning.jpg)
90.3 KB36 views
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-04-2008, 07:47 PM
Terry B's Avatar
Terry B
Country living & viewing

Terry B is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Armidale
Posts: 2,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by EzyStyles View Post
Thanks for your thoughts guys. i haven't even grasp using RAW mode yet letting alone using this at all. I was 20 minutes late asking Leon back for the 20D as i know DSLR Focus works with the 20D.

Again, really appreicated for your input and replies into convincing me to stick with the 40D. I know it is an absolute dream of a camera for astro stuff, but grade 1 cannot possibly do year 12 maths. i think all in all, it is just the bad experience which had put me off it completely. have tried to like it, but the simplicity of a 350d is just nice for me. maybe 450d modded might be the way to go?

Tried using IRIS to prcess my images but don't think IRIS likes jpg's . need to learn RAW ... no point 14bit raw if i havent even done 12bit.

Sorry for any let downs i don't normally winge but kinda feel like what the hell stuff it atm. Also moved house etc and setting my scope up takes even much longer than before ,,just bits and pieces added up. might have a break from imaging .
Your correct that Iris doesn't like jpeg to process. It is very easy to take them as raw, drag the file into the RAW converter in iris and you then have an easily processed fit or pic file.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-04-2008, 08:45 PM
tornado33
Registered User

tornado33 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Posts: 3,931
yes thats how I do it, raw pocessed in iris
Eric, how did you process all the excellent images youve got thus far, what software did you use?
Thanks
Scott
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-04-2008, 08:59 PM
EzyStyles's Avatar
EzyStyles (Eric)
I HATE COMA!

EzyStyles is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 3,208
howdy scott , i take .jpg shots then use DSS to stack, subtract darks/flats/bios then use PS2 for the final touches.

cheers.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09-04-2008, 09:37 PM
davewaldo's Avatar
davewaldo
SE QLD

davewaldo is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australia - Brisbane
Posts: 727
Hi Eric, I don't have a lot of experience with Astro imaging, but I have loads of experience with photoshop and commercial photography.

Once you get the hang of shooting RAW you will wonder how you did without it. Fred is correct when he mentioned that RAW files apply none of the colour balance info to the file. This means making colour balance chnges to the raw in post is just as good as shooting with the corrrect balance, not one bit of difference.

You also mention that you think your files shouldn't need such large amounts of colour correction. You'd be suprised how much is often needed in everyday photography sometimes when strange light sources are used, so even large changes shouldn't have an adverse effect.

I would recomend setting a Kelvin white balance which gets you close, then do the rest in post. When you find good settings for the adjustment, these could be saved and applyied to everything.

This thread has reminded me of Tiger Woods career (or what I've heard of it). First he was awesome, won loads of tournments. Then he decided he could be better if he completely re-worked his swing. This took him almost 2 years and he didn't win much at all. Now he's got his swing working great and he's back winning like crazy and far more consistant than he used to be.

I've been amazed by your images Eric, and to be honest I was quite shocked to discover you were only shooting JPEG. I can't wait to see what you can show us once you get through this time of intense learning.

Good Luck,

Dave.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-04-2008, 09:38 PM
Escortitis's Avatar
Escortitis
George

Escortitis is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Greenwood, Perth WA
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by EzyStyles View Post
heres a single shot in jpg from last night after adjustment colour balance (alot of playing around) but still...it shouldnt require all that much.
A shot like that and your not happy Eric! Wow mate you set the bar high for yourself, you've commented on some of my images and I must thank you for going 'Ezy' on me mate

Have a break if you feel you need it, then drag some RAW into Iris and play with RGB ratios, it's so easy:

>black
>rgbbalance 1.?? 0.?? 0.??

If it's no good, try as many values as you can be stuffed putting in. There's a magic number that will work for your camera, there has to be.

Deep breaths mate.

George
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-04-2008, 11:28 PM
garymck (Gary)
Registered User

garymck is online now
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Geelong
Posts: 685
What about using Nebulosity from Stark Labs - cheap, as easy to use as DSLR Focus, supports latest Canon Cameras, saves in fits files, which can now be used in Iris without conversion......Also DSS will stack fits files......

Perhaps it might be time to change to a real ccd camera and ditch the dslr - I've just got a QHY8 and just lllluuuuurrrrv not having to take dark frames...

cheers
Gary
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-04-2008, 12:52 AM
Merlin66's Avatar
Merlin66 (Ken)
Spectroscopy Wizard

Merlin66 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St Leonards, Vic
Posts: 7,082
Ha and responce

I was just looking a spectra of Eta Car, and couldn't help but notice there's not much there other than Ha. All the other wavelengths are a fraction of the Ha emmisions, it's got to be red,red. Maybe you really ARE getting some sensitivity in the Ha. I wouldn't rush things, you're capable of overcoming the transient difficulties and moving forward..... something about "one small step-"
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-04-2008, 04:52 AM
Bassnut's Avatar
Bassnut (Fred)
Narrowfield rules!

Bassnut is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,772
Sheesh Eric, thats pretty good (and I bet its a bloody Jpeg), finger out, stop mucking around and just do the same thing in RAW..

Steve, thats the filter pics ive already seen.

BTW, the "CCD filter" says low pass, the bayer matrix RGB is band pass, I wonder if the little blue tag in the top left edge is allows pealing off a plastic filter layer off the CCD face?, the blue hue on the CCD seems to also indicate another filter of some sort.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-04-2008, 11:38 PM
EzyStyles's Avatar
EzyStyles (Eric)
I HATE COMA!

EzyStyles is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 3,208
Quote:
Originally Posted by davewaldo View Post
Hi Eric, I don't have a lot of experience with Astro imaging, but I have loads of experience with photoshop and commercial photography.

Once you get the hang of shooting RAW you will wonder how you did without it. Fred is correct when he mentioned that RAW files apply none of the colour balance info to the file. This means making colour balance chnges to the raw in post is just as good as shooting with the corrrect balance, not one bit of difference.

You also mention that you think your files shouldn't need such large amounts of colour correction. You'd be suprised how much is often needed in everyday photography sometimes when strange light sources are used, so even large changes shouldn't have an adverse effect.

I would recomend setting a Kelvin white balance which gets you close, then do the rest in post. When you find good settings for the adjustment, these could be saved and applyied to everything.

This thread has reminded me of Tiger Woods career (or what I've heard of it). First he was awesome, won loads of tournments. Then he decided he could be better if he completely re-worked his swing. This took him almost 2 years and he didn't win much at all. Now he's got his swing working great and he's back winning like crazy and far more consistant than he used to be.

I've been amazed by your images Eric, and to be honest I was quite shocked to discover you were only shooting JPEG. I can't wait to see what you can show us once you get through this time of intense learning.

Good Luck,

Dave.
Cheers Dave thanks for your advise. I'll try using the kelvin adjustments and test but wouldn't it be different since it is a modded cam? i mean, adjusting the kelvin range will be entirely different as kelvin is set for unmodded cam?

thanks once again i wish i was tiger woods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Escortitis View Post
A shot like that and your not happy Eric! Wow mate you set the bar high for yourself, you've commented on some of my images and I must thank you for going 'Ezy' on me mate

Have a break if you feel you need it, then drag some RAW into Iris and play with RGB ratios, it's so easy:

>black
>rgbbalance 1.?? 0.?? 0.??

If it's no good, try as many values as you can be stuffed putting in. There's a magic number that will work for your camera, there has to be.

Deep breaths mate.

George
Thanks george. i tried using IRIS have no idea how to use it with different command settings etc. i find using deepskystaker much easier and more direct if only the developers of IRIS can make it more user friendly will be great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garymck View Post
What about using Nebulosity from Stark Labs - cheap, as easy to use as DSLR Focus, supports latest Canon Cameras, saves in fits files, which can now be used in Iris without conversion......Also DSS will stack fits files......

Perhaps it might be time to change to a real ccd camera and ditch the dslr - I've just got a QHY8 and just lllluuuuurrrrv not having to take dark frames...

cheers
Gary
Thanks Gary. just downloaded Nebulosity will test it and see how that goes. Any other focusing software around? g'luck with the GHY8, time for first light

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin66 View Post
I was just looking a spectra of Eta Car, and couldn't help but notice there's not much there other than Ha. All the other wavelengths are a fraction of the Ha emmisions, it's got to be red,red. Maybe you really ARE getting some sensitivity in the Ha. I wouldn't rush things, you're capable of overcoming the transient difficulties and moving forward..... something about "one small step-"
THanks Ken. yes ETA is suppose to be red but not a deep deep red or a bright neon looking red more of a blend like purplish in colour from the OIII mix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassnut View Post
Sheesh Eric, thats pretty good (and I bet its a bloody Jpeg), finger out, stop mucking around and just do the same thing in RAW..

Steve, thats the filter pics ive already seen.

BTW, the "CCD filter" says low pass, the bayer matrix RGB is band pass, I wonder if the little blue tag in the top left edge is allows pealing off a plastic filter layer off the CCD face?, the blue hue on the CCD seems to also indicate another filter of some sort.
yepp once again jpg need to get use to the cam first before raw mode. when shooting, i'll do RAW + jpg so at least i have best of both worlds if i decide to muck around with RAW later on down the rack.

so literally how many filters now fred?

- theres the low pass filter (low uv/ir cut or known as the Anti-Aliasing filter)
- phaser filter (hot mirror filter/main filter replacement)

If i don't end up selling the 40D, i might pull it apart also and see whats what inside the cam.

Note: According to Christians report and other reports i have read, removing the Anti-Aliasing filter makes images sharper.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-04-2008, 12:21 AM
Merlin66's Avatar
Merlin66 (Ken)
Spectroscopy Wizard

Merlin66 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St Leonards, Vic
Posts: 7,082
ETA colours

Eric,
Don't be misled by some of the "artistic" colour rendering on astro shots.
We're getting brainwashed to look only for the "Oh Ahh".
The attached spectrum of ETA shows two large peaks, which are well above anything else.... these are Ha (6563)and Hb (4861), the Ha is red,red,red, and the Hb blue.
Very little if any OIII ( 4959/5007) So based on this spectrum, it would be 4 parts red to one part blue.
What I'm trying to get at is the end result will always be biased based on "perceptions" ( and the responce of the CCD!)
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (t_eta_carene_300.jpg)
148.6 KB12 views
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-04-2008, 07:19 AM
Zuts
Registered User

Zuts is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin66 View Post
Eric,
Don't be misled by some of the "artistic" colour rendering on astro shots.
We're getting brainwashed to look only for the "Oh Ahh".
The attached spectrum of ETA shows two large peaks, which are well above anything else.... these are Ha (6563)and Hb (4861), the Ha is red,red,red, and the Hb blue.
Very little if any OIII ( 4959/5007) So based on this spectrum, it would be 4 parts red to one part blue.
What I'm trying to get at is the end result will always be biased based on "perceptions" ( and the responce of the CCD!)
Hi Ken,

That is a very interesting observation. I would find it very interesting to see a similar spectra for the Tarantula nebula.

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-04-2008, 08:18 AM
Merlin66's Avatar
Merlin66 (Ken)
Spectroscopy Wizard

Merlin66 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St Leonards, Vic
Posts: 7,082
Tarantula

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/a...hp/t-7668.html

Found this in the archives.... I'll get back to you on the spectra.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-04-2008, 11:13 AM
Alchemy (Clive)
Quietly watching

Alchemy is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Yarra Junction
Posts: 2,949
yep completely crud and hopeless camera get rid of it asap ....... how much do you want for it
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 01:36 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
SkyWatcher Australia
Advertisement
Lunatico Astronomical
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement
NexDome Observatories
Advertisement
OzScopes Authorised Dealer
Advertisement
Celestron Australia
Advertisement
Meade Australia
Advertisement
Astronomy and Electronics Centre
Advertisement