ZWO Camera Issues

[mariner10 (Steve)]

Has anybody had any experience with the ZWO ASI120MC planetary camera (as per the advert on the right of page).
I purchased one and although happy with it I've had some issues with it and I'm trying to narrow down the problem.
At the moment I'm beginning to think my lap top hasn't quite got enough grunt to deal with all the information coming in from the camera.
I've been using Fire Capture primarily but the issues I've had have been replicated in the other two recommended programs, identically.
The telescope I've been using is an F4 10" SN and was wondering if the speed of the scope could be an issue.
Any input or suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks.

[glend (Glen)]

I have a ZWO ASI130MM and have no issues with the camera but I use mine as a guide camera and being a very high frame rate video camera (like the 120), some of ths image software just cannot cope with the stream of data from the camera. PHD2 is particuar will lockup as its buffers overflow. Metaguide is designed for video cameras and it works well with that camera. Make sure you set the frame rate correctly.

[JB80 (Jarrod)]

What exactly is happening and what are your settings?

Can you post a capture log and your lappy specs?

One thing off the top of my head is to make sure you have the latest drivers installed from the ZWO website and not the one from the disc and even if you have the latest try an uninstall/delete and then reinstall. It may not change a thing but I look at doing that as the software equivalent to giving it a good whack.

[julianh72 (Julian)]

I have the ZWO ASI120MC, and I have no problems at all with it. I have been running it from three different computers:

. a 5-year old Windows 7 laptop (dual-core processor, 32-bit Windows 7, 2 GB RAM)
. a 4-year old Windows 8 laptop (dual-core processor, 64-bit Windows 8.1, 4 GB RAM)
. a brand-new Windows 8 tablet (quad-core processor, 32-bit Windows 8.1, 2 GB RAM).

Can you tell us a bit more about your set-up - processor, RAM, OS, drivers, software versions, etc.

I have been mainly running with the latest "development" versions of FireCapture (2.4 Beta) and AutoStakkert (2.3.0.21 Alpha), but the older "stable" versions work fine too. I only tried AmCap and SharpCap sufficiently to make sure they work, but I am now focussing on FireCapture to capture my images and video, and AutoStakkert for stacking, as well as playing with RegiStax and DeepSkyStacker to see which I like best.

The only problem I have found is that I sometimes lose some frames if I connect to a particular USB port on the oldest laptop, but it works fine if I connect to a different USB port, so I suspect the particular USB port could be "flaky". Note that on the product website http://www.zwoptical.com/Eng/Cameras...ware_index.asp , it says that "some USB3.0 ports are NOT compatible" - but that's probably not an issue if you're running an old computer - but try using a different USB port and see if that fixes the problem.

As others have said - make sure your device drivers are the latest downloads from the website; don't just use the ones that came on the disc.

I don't think the optical attributes of the telescope would have any impact - you should be able to do all of the bench testing you need with the camera sitting on the desktop next to your computer.

[mariner10 (Steve)]

Originally Posted by julianh72

I have the ZWO ASI120MC, and I have no problems at all with it. I have been running it from three different computers:

. a 5-year old Windows 7 laptop (dual-core processor, 32-bit Windows 7, 2 GB RAM)
. a 4-year old Windows 8 laptop (dual-core processor, 64-bit Windows 8.1, 4 GB RAM)
. a brand-new Windows 8 tablet (quad-core processor, 32-bit Windows 8.1, 2 GB RAM).

Can you tell us a bit more about your set-up - processor, RAM, OS, drivers, software versions, etc.

I have been mainly running with the latest "development" versions of FireCapture (2.4 Beta) and AutoStakkert (2.3.0.21 Alpha), but the older "stable" versions work fine too. I only tried AmCap and SharpCap sufficiently to make sure they work, but I am now focussing on FireCapture to capture my images and video, and AutoStakkert for stacking, as well as playing with RegiStax and DeepSkyStacker to see which I like best.

The only problem I have found is that I sometimes lose some frames if I connect to a particular USB port on the oldest laptop, but it works fine if I connect to a different USB port, so I suspect the particular USB port could be "flaky". Note that on the product website http://www.zwoptical.com/Eng/Cameras...ware_index.asp , it says that "some USB3.0 ports are NOT compatible" - but that's probably not an issue if you're running an old computer - but try using a different USB port and see if that fixes the problem.

As others have said - make sure your device drivers are the latest downloads from the website; don't just use the ones that came on the disc.

I don't think the optical attributes of the telescope would have any impact - you should be able to do all of the bench testing you need with the camera sitting on the desktop next to your computer.

Hi all,
Firstly thanks to all those that have replied and sorry about the delay in getting back to you, I'm not doing this from home unfortunately so can only reply when I get the opportunity.
I should start at the beginning. I've only used the camera twice and I had two different problems on each occasion.
The first time I focused the camera on a bright star using a mask and I had no issues with that. The star focused nicely and the mount tracked nicely.
I then swung the scope to Saturn and managed to get the planet in the viewing area of Fire Capture without any problems but the planet would not stay in view, it kept shooting out in different directions and then coming back into the view. So it would take off diagonally to the right and then pop back into the centre of the view, hold it for a second or two and then bounce out in a different direction only to pop back into view and do the same thing.
The only way I could get it to stay in the view was to drop the resolution to the lowest setting, it stayed in view but the image was shocking as you could imagine. I can't remember what the frame rate was unfortunately but I did get a two minute video of it but just not very pleasant looking.
The second time I used the camera I had no issue getting the planet into the view and getting it to stay there but I simply could not focus it. Focus the first time was easy but not this time so two entirely different problems.
Now both problems were replicated in Am Cap and Fire Cap and on the second occasion PHD wouldn't focus either and I've never had an issue like that using the program.
I contact Torsten Edelmann who developed Fire Capture and he told me download the latest version of Fire Capture which I did using the method he suggested from within Fire Capture. The version I'm now running is V2.3.21 in the title bar which I notice is different to what you're running Julian. I also adjusted the value for USBTraffic which Torsten recommended and still no change. He's now out of ideas.
I've heard of Metaguide Glen so I will give that a shot next time I can get out so thanks for the tip. It's interesting that you say that some software can't cope with the amount of data. A friend who was with me when I had the first issue thought that my computer was having trouble doing exactly that and recommended getting more RAM (he's a computer tech).
I didn't think about the drivers Jarrod so will try that as well and will repost how I got on (moon is up and about now, typical).
As for my lap top it's a four year old Toshiba running Windows 7 with a dual-core processor and from memory 64-bit with 4 GB or RAM, I think the processor is an Intel i5.
I did try the camera sitting at my desk and it seemed to capture the view alright but I will try that again and see how I go.
Thanks again guys.

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by mariner10

The first time I focused the camera on a bright star using a mask and I had no issues with that. The star focused nicely and the mount tracked nicely.
I then swung the scope to Saturn and managed to get the planet in the viewing area of Fire Capture without any problems but the planet would not stay in view, it kept shooting out in different directions and then coming back into the view. So it would take off diagonally to the right and then pop back into the centre of the view, hold it for a second or two and then bounce out in a different direction only to pop back into view and do the same thing.
The only way I could get it to stay in the view was to drop the resolution to the lowest setting, it stayed in view but the image was shocking as you could imagine.

I don't know whether you have any previous experience with webcam astro-imaging, but here are my suggestions:

1. Try shooting some daytime terrestrial images and video first, before going for the night-time stuff - I just find it a LOT easier to learn how new software and hardware works in the daytime, when I can see what I'm doing. Pick a nice building or tree on the distant horizon, and see how you go. (Luckily, the ZWO cameras can work equally well in full daylight as they can manage long exposure stuff for DSOs.) Try shooting some full-frame video at the highest frame rate it can manage, and then some reduced "Region of Interest" (RoI) video of the same targets at higher frame rates - this can be handy to see what is the maximum frame rate your computer can handle before dropping frames etc.

2. For your first night-time imaging, try the Moon if at all possible - it's a nice big, bright target, so it's much easier to see what's going on. Then move on to a nice bright planet, and then try some DSOs.

3. Try using the full resolution of 1280x960 before selecting a smaller RoI. With the full sensor area active, you'll get a lower maximum video frame rate, but you'll be able to see how much tracking error / vibration you are getting. Going down to a smaller RoI will give you a higher frame rate, which is good for lunar / planetary imaging, but if your mount isn't steady enough, you may find that the target is moving in and out of frame if the frame size is too small. Note that I think most (all?) of the built-in planetary imaging "Profiles" in FireCapture use a reduced RoI to maximise the frame rate, but this requires a good solid mount with good tracking to keep it centred in the frame. You can over-ride the default RoI and go to full sensor resolution until you have this sorted.

4. When you use a small RoI, your target is covered by the same number of pixels as when you are collecting full sensor images - you just ignore the surrounding black space, so the resolution of the target is the same in either case.

5. Try playing with the shutter speed and gain - it is very easy to over-expose a bright target like the Moon or a planet, and the result is that it gets "overblown", so you lose all detail, and it can look like it's an out-of-focus white blob. I tend to over-expose for initial target acquisition (it's a lot easier to centre the FoV on a really bright target), then wind the exposure / gain back until it is clearly a bit too dim, then bring the exposure back up until I have a good balance between image brightness and detail.

6. If you are trying to capture colour images, you'll need to play with the "Debayer" options, and you'll need to experiment with the different "Debayer Algorithms". I'm still learning here, but I found the default "Nearest Neighbour" option doesn't work very well for me. There's a really good write-up on "Debayering Demystified" here: http://www.stark-labs.com/craig/reso...yering_API.pdf

7. For focussing, I focus on a bright star using a Bahtinov Mask to get it spot on, and then keep the focus fixed as I move to another target. (I find a I can get MUCH better focus on a bright star than I can on the Moon or planets.) As everything up in the sky is at infinity, you shouldn't need to refocus, unless your telescope loses focus over the night due to thermal effects or similar.

8. When you're shooting planetary video, it's quite possible that no single frame looks very good, and the video may not look as good as you see with your eye through the eyepiece. However, as long as your focus and exposure are good, you should be able to produce a MUCH better composite image by stacking a few hundred frames, and selecting the best for stacking and post-processing.

Hope this helps! (And apologies if all of the above is obvious to you!)

[Amaranthus (Barry)]

Almost all framerate/crash issues with the ASI120 line come down to the USB connection. If you are sharing your USB port (i.e. using a hub) with this camera, it will cause problems. It wants exclusivity!

[Nikolas (Nik)]

It's your usb traffic, turn it down in the firecapture settings to 40%.
Also make sure you have the correct asi 120mc drivers. if you have the usb2 version do not use the asi120mc s drivers as they will not work nicely with your camera. (I found out the hard way)

[mariner10 (Steve)]

Thanks for all the information people and nobody is teaching me to suck eggs here, all information is good and appreciated.

When I said I've only used the camera twice it was also the first and second attempt at planetary imaging with this type of camera.
Previous experience with astro-photography is piggy back and prime using a DSLR. Still coming to grips with that as well but getting good results now.

Also, my 10" SN is mounted on an EQ6 so it's reasonably stable.
When I had the first issue it wasn't mount instability as the image would just jump in and out of view, not drift. Alignment of the mount was pretty good and the image when I did manage to get it to stay in view stayed pretty close to centre.

The last time I had it out I did reduce the USB traffic but can't remember the setting but it did seem to help as in the planet stayed in the field but I just could not achieve focus. I don't run a USB hub as I've had issues with those with other astro-imaging sessions so the ZWO has exclusivity.

I'll take advice and use it during the day and as the moon is now getting up I'll play around with the settings to see how it goes. I've got a lot to digest.

Thanks again everybody.

[mariner10 (Steve)]

Hi again all,
So over the weekend I found the time to download the latest driver for the ASI120MC (careful not to download the ASI120MC S) and the latest version of Fire Capture (which I reckon I already had but did it anyway).

Then, sitting at my desk in the afternoon, I plugged the camera into the lap top and started Fire Capture selecting ZWO only to be told the camera could not be found.

I tried swapping USB ports but nothing worked. I also tried the other two recommended programs but neither of them worked either.

Now I'm really stumped. I'm beginning to think there maybe an issue with the camera or the lead and thinking about sending it back.
Before I do though I didn't think to use the cable that came with my Orion auto-guider package as I think that's the same cable/connections.

Any other advice?

Cheers.

[glend (Glen)]

I believe you have to remove the old driver before you install the new one. Your camera should work, at least as a web cam by using any WDM web cam software. If your using the camera in the daytime it may appear to not work unless you turn the gain way down, also if its not in a scope it has no chance of achieving focus but you can see differences in light and dark. If you put your hand over the apatr opening does the screen go dark, if so its probably working. Dial down the gain and exposure until you get something. I had mine stuck into my gudescope aimed at a distant tree and that helped setup the camera initially. Good luck.

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by mariner10

Now I'm really stumped. I'm beginning to think there maybe an issue with the camera or the lead and thinking about sending it back.
Before I do though I didn't think to use the cable that came with my Orion auto-guider package as I think that's the same cable/connections.

Any other advice?

Do you have access to another Windows PC, so you can do a clean install, and see if the camera is recognised?

I would suggest un-installing all ZWO drivers and then installing the newest ones, just to make sure you don't have some sort of driver corruption.

The camera should be recognised by most common webcam apps, including AmCap etc, so it should be easy enough to test whether the camera is actually working.

You could try another cable with the same Type-B plug - they're quite common with printers etc.

Hope this helps!

[Nikolas (Nik)]

Uninstall all drivers and reinstall.

[technofetishism (Nick)]

One other catch I discovered on the weekend with my ASI120 with metaguide.

If google chrome was open before I started metaguide. It would steal control of the ASI120.

[mariner10 (Steve)]

Thanks for the tips people.

I didn't realise I had to remove the old driver first, I thought it would have been over-written (hope that's the terminology) when I downloaded the latest version but I'll remove the driver/s and start that process again.

I'm going to bring the camera and provided software to work and load it onto a PC at work that isn't connected to the internet to see if it works on that. If so then at least I can discount an issue with the camera and lead.

When I first took the camera out I did as you suggested Glen and waved my hand over it and yes I got light and dark images as my hand waved over it. The problem on the weekend was I couldn't even get that far, none of the software would recognise the camera and connect to it so I couldn't do anything including playing with the gain etc.
I'll try PHD when I get a moment and see how that goes with it, I know that works (famous last words).

Interesting about Google Chrome.

Will keep you posted as I try different things.

Cheers.

[glend (Glen)]

Another thing go watch out for if your running Windows 8 is that if you doube click on PHD you can actually open two copies and you could well wind up looking at the second one. This happens t me occassionaly when running Metaguide. The camera would be connected to the first copy opened and appear to be dead to the second copy which I was looking at. Just singe click to open your app in Win 8.

[mariner10 (Steve)]

I have that issue at work Glen with lots of different programs but haven't experienced it on the home computer but I'll definitely keep that in mind and make sure I only have one copy of the program open.

[mariner10 (Steve)]

So I managed to uninstall the old ZWO driver and install the new one and test the camera.
The camera and the computer are now on speaking terms and I managed to take a 2 minute video simply by waving my hand over the camera so I got light and dark images.
I played around with the settings including the USB traffic speed which was set at about 80% and true to your word Nik when I dropped it things started to come together.
I put it down to as low as it would go (10% from memory) but that wasn't much good so increased it to 40% and it worked fine and then put it at 30% and it liked that as well and both settings allowed me to go to the maximum resolution as well which I couldn't do when I first tried the camera.
Thanks to everybody for your input, I'd still be struggling with this if not for all the good advice.
I'll let you know how it goes when I test it (hopefully this weekend) using the moon if it's up and about.

[Nikolas (Nik)]

Glad it all works now