Coal, Petrol in Space !

[CraigS]

Astronomers discover complex organic matter in the universe

In today's issue of the journal Nature, astronomers report that organic compounds of unexpected complexity exist throughout the Universe. The results suggest that complex organic compounds are not the sole domain of life but can be made naturally by stars.
...
Prof. Sun Kwok and Dr. Yong Zhang of the University of Hong Kong show that an organic substance commonly found throughout the Universe contains a mixture of aromatic (ring-like) and aliphatic (chain-like) components. The compounds are so complex that their chemical structures resemble those of coal and petroleum. Since coal and oil are remnants of ancient life, this type of organic matter was thought to arise only from living organisms. The team's discovery suggests that complex organic compounds can be synthesized in space even when no life forms are present.

Certainly casts a different light on the old romantic astronomer's saying:
"We are all made of stardust", eh ?
Big abiogenesis implications, I would think..

What does this mean as far as 'peak oil' is concerned ?

Cheers

[xelasnave]

Mmmm we may find the interest in space exploration will take a large step forward... all we need to do is show there is a high probability of oil etc being found in various objects within the solar system and guess what the money will flow like never before for space research exploration etc.

Forget the implications for life etc who cares about that.... this research hints at a billion dollar space mining industry.

AND we thought looking into space was a nerdy pursuit wasting money that could have been spent on sports stadiums.

Thanks Craig another part of the jigsaw... so stars explode to form the chemicals for life to "salt" dust clouds and mix with all the water out there to form the life that can evolve to harvest all the energy...what an inteligent design .... just thinking how to sell it to the public in USA

alex

[astroron (Ron)]

I think that by the time we have the technology to get anywhere near this stuff ,Oil and coal will be old hat and we will be using different minerals.
Cost will be the governing factor.
We can not afford any thing now so where are we going to get the money in the future

[CraigS]

For me, the interesting point is that these complex organics have formed courtesy of the various stellar processes and have found their way into galaxies, interstellar space and also maybe planets, certainly moons. Titan is a classic example of a huge repository of liquid hydrocarbons .. right within our own system. If Titan had some oxygen and someone lit up a match within its vicinity, it'd probably engulf the entire planet in rapid combustion.

So, who is to say that the Earth didn't acquire this class of organic compounds courtesy of the same processes ? It is actually starting to seem quite likely with these spectroscopically confirmed observations. And also, who is to say that some of the sub-processes at the tail-end of all this, ceased over a 5 billion year planet formation period ? Apart from the nucleosynthesis part, why couldn't these still be occurring right now, right under our feet ?

Also, apart from the standard mainstream answers, is it possible that this may be why some oil wells replenish themselves ? (Admittedly some don't also). Other scientists have actually followed this line of enquiry and somewhat surprisingly, there are 'pros and cons', evidence 'for and against' either view on the origins of what we all call 'fossil' fuels.

I think it would be hilarious if it turns out that the origin of our fuels had nothing to do with the ol' rotting fish story.

(That's my pseudoscientific contribution for today .. better get back to mainstream .. quick … )

Cheers

[xelasnave]

Well Craig I think of speculation this way... there are so many objects in our universe (even the small part we can "observe") probabilities could be said to be infinite.

Since you started the other thread the info I have come across seems limitless in support that the place has been built for life... I bet it will not be long that we start finding some/real evidence of life... there are plenty of foot prints we just have to spot the beast.

Off topic but hopefully of interest...The car had the outlet valve stuck on piston 4..causing overheating shorting etc...so I cut the power to the injector (no fuel in that cylinder) and blocked the breather tube leading back tothe intake manifold...the exhaust cam lobe has completly worn away but I drove it back home (approx 750 klms) last night on three cylinders and it went better than it has for months
alex

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

there are so many objects in our universe (even the small part we can "observe") probabilities could be said to be infinite.

Well, many things 'could be said' which are also meaningless.
'Infinite probability' in this instance, is a good example.

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Since you started the other thread the info I have come across seems limitless in support that the place has been built for life…

or is it that life built itself because of 'the place' ??
Or maybe, life built itself regardless of 'the place' ?
Or maybe, life was forced to build itself in spite of the place ??

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I bet it will not be long that we start finding some/real evidence of life... there are plenty of foot prints we just have to spot the beast.

Limiting the search space presently appears to be the key. Definition of 'Habitability Zone' is thus seen a important. We still haven't found all the HZs on Earth yet .. did you read the recent press releases about the 10 cm single cell amoebae found at the bottom of the Mariana Trench ? (A depth of 10.6kms !)
The other part to this is the ability to detect it .. if it is there. Short of the instance of the alien with big drooling jaws and nasty teeth, I get the feeling that at present, we wouldn't recognise 'life' if we stumbled upon it. In my view, I think many, many remote sensing and robotic data-gathering expeditions will be needed in support of an exo-life claim, especially if the exo-life happens to be a placid piece of humble bacteria hangin' out on a rock someplace .. if it is a single cell 10cm amoeba however, remote digital video and lights should do the trick !
PS: I notice the Russians are planning a return sample expedition to Mars' Phobos moon (November liftoff). Is the Phobos habitat considered an HZ ?

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Off topic but hopefully of interest...The car had the outlet valve stuck on piston 4..causing overheating shorting etc...so I cut the power to the injector (no fuel in that cylinder) and blocked the breather tube leading back tothe intake manifold...the exhaust cam lobe has completly worn away but I drove it back home (approx 750 klms) last night on three cylinders and it went better than it has for months
alex

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle ! Never heard of that one before ! Amazing the valve stem didn't break off/bend ? Thanks for letting us know … 'tis useful knowledge ! Can't believe there's no serious (other) damage ??
Amazing.

Cheers

[xelasnave]

Yes to the single cell critter.
Have to checkup on the Russians however... just like we had to during the cold war.
The motor is indeed something that defies the gods ..no one believed I could do it except me and I guess that is why I was able to do it. My mechanic who is a christian thinks I am personally blessed...well I have always believed that...only 2k for total recon so its all good.

Did you notice there is a critter that can survive at the temp of liquid nitrogen? sorry I cant provide a link I am shopping with my little girl but it will be easy to find in the latest news at one of the science sites.
Keep up the good work Craig.

alex

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Did you notice there is a critter that can survive at the temp of liquid nitrogen? sorry I cant provide a link

Hmm .. from Wiki, a nematode called Haemonchus contortus can survive at liquid nitrogen temperatures for 44 weeks.

However looking further, it seems there's another beastie called a
"Water Bear" (Tardigrade) which can survive:

1) being heated for a few minutes to 151 °C (424 K) or being chilled for days at -200 °C (73 K), or for a few minutes at -272 °C (~1 degree above absolute zero !!!);

2) can withstand vacuums and pressure 1200 times atmospheric pressures, and have been tested in space for at least 10 days. Some can withstand 6000 atmospheres !!

3) 10 years without water;

4) can withstand median lethal doses of 5,000 Gy (of gamma-rays) and 6,200 Gy (of heavy ions) in hydrated animals (5 to 10 Gy could be fatal to a human).

Amazing stuff .. looks like they sent a few of these up to the space station on the final flight of the Endeavour.

The more one looks into this, the more it becomes clear that the most important question is about abiogenesis .. ie: the origin of life. Clearly, once life gets started, we know it can survive unbelievable changes in environment, and is incredibly hardy and adaptable.

The real issue is one we may never work out the answer to .. how it all got started. Perhaps the best solution to answering the riddle, is still exploration by humans, (first choice), followed by robotic analysis with Earth return samples preferred, then followed by remote robotic analysis. Remote sensing is definitely very 'hit and miss', but by far the least accurate would have to be inference based on Habitability Zone (??)

What do you/others think ?

Cheers

[xelasnave]

Amazing stuff.
Habital zone would now seem a rather wide region Craig far past the goldielocks zone probably... No doubt humans will set a preconceived restriction of some sort but should we be open to options once considered out of the question.
I bet there is probably life even on the Moon so lets look there first
alex