Go Back   IceInSpace > General Astronomy > General Chat
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 20-06-2019, 01:15 PM
gary
Registered User

gary is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mt. Kuring-Gai
Posts: 5,928
Question What happened to the Apollo goodwill moon rocks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lefkow
US President Richard Nixon gave moon rocks collected by Apollo 11 and Apollo 17 astronauts to 135 countries around the world and the 50 US states as a token of American goodwill.

While some hold pride of place in museums and scientific institutions, many others are unaccounted for—they have either gone missing, were stolen or even destroyed over the decades.
Chris Lefkow provides an account of what happened to some of them :-
https://phys.org/news/2019-06-apollo-goodwill-moon.html

Meanwhile, with new scientific techniques, the rocks that are available today for study are continuing to reveal more information about the early solar system :-
https://phys.org/news/2019-06-ion-at...rets-moon.html
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 20-06-2019, 08:44 PM
Terry B's Avatar
Terry B
Country living & viewing

Terry B is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Armidale
Posts: 2,789
I got to hold a moon rock some years ago. Very cool
Terry
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (moon-rock.jpg)
40.9 KB48 views
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 20-06-2019, 09:13 PM
AstroJunk's Avatar
AstroJunk (Jonathan)
Shadow Chaser

AstroJunk is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Moonee Beach
Posts: 1,909
Possibly not related to the Goodwill rocks, but I thought I'd share some Aussie based NASA history I was involved in back in 2012.

Enter George Hays who retired to North Qld:

Your question about the Moon dust takes me back to a very interesting part of my working career. In 1969, I was a NSW high school teacher working in Barham, a small town on the Murray River. It was there that just one of the teachers owned a TV set, we brought it to the school, and the whole school spent the whole day watching the Moon Landing on that one T.V. set. 43 years ago today! (Thanks for that!)

In 1970 I left teaching to work as an analytical chemist in the John Curtin School of Medical Research, in Canberra. While there I took the opportunity to study geology part-time at ANU for a couple of years. As a chemist, I found it all very easy and got first prizes in all the mineralogy and petrology units (much of it practical, microscopy-based stuff). The ANU geology professor, D. A. Brown, suggested to me that I should go to LaTrobe university, where a friend of his, Prof. A. J. R. White was establishing a new Geology school. I was to be the foundation head technician, and would be responsible for establishing mineral and rock collections, and for creating and describing what became thousands of microscopic thin-sections representing all specimens in the collection. I was given a few weeks working with the lapidary technicians in ANU to gain familiarity with their skills.

One of the academic staff at LaTrobe was a Dr John F. Lindsay, a distinguished sedimentologist who had been seconded to NASA from about 1968 to help train the astronauts in geology. Back in Australia, he was constantly in touch with NASA, and was sent samples of Moon regolith: dust, sand, gravel which he described for publication. That material became part of what I made into rock thin sections. I would produce the slides and do a preliminary identification of the minerals. It was exciting stuff, I personally handled material from Apollo 11 (there was very little of that), to Apollo 16. What amazed me at the time was that I could recognise every mineral I saw! We really can feel a kinship to the Moon.

Security was tight. Doors had special locks and keys involving magnets (very high-tech at that time) which would defy attempts at duplicating keys or picking locks. I worked a night shift, from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. to minimise interruption. Every horizontal surface in the lab was covered in alfoil, in case a speck of dust were dropped.
The minerals were typical of basalts and andesites: lots of feldspars – various orthoclase minerals and plagioclase minerals, and familiar ferromagnesian minerals like olivines and pyroxenes. There are minerals like “armalcolite” (from Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins), unique to the Moon, but I never saw those.

There were subtle differences. One was the complete absence of oxidation hence the pure shades of grey seen. Relative to their equivalents on Earth: denser elements prevailed e.g. Ti rather than Fe; lighter or volatile elements are impoverished, e.g. H, S, P, Cl.

The form of the rocks was intriguing. So much like what we see on Earth – the astronauts picked up and threw rocks very like what we pick up and throw here! Here the pieces of rock we walk on, or pick up and throw, were shaped by weathering – on the Moon there is no “weather” – what is going on? One of the forces that breaks rock here is temperature fluctuation – there is plenty of that on the Lunar surface diurnal temperature change is enormous (but a “day” on the moon, from one sunrise to the next, is like a month on Earth).

Another force which shapes our rocks is rain - the Moon does have a phenomenon equivalent to “rain” – the constant bombardment by meteorites from space, and countless more bits of flying debris after impacts on the moon’s surface. It is this constant bombardment that has given the Moon rocks such a familiar look.

The meteor bombardment introduces another phenomenon – pitting. These pits are the micro-equivalent of craters. Even small grains of gravel show impact pits – “craters” of sub-millimetre scale. We don’t see small impact pits in rocks on the Earth, because our atmosphere slows down small flying fragments very effectively. On the Moon, there is nothing to slow down flying fragments.

Yet another phenomenon introduced by the meteor bombardment is glass. Just molten rock – every surface has been splattered with molten glass, usually black to the naked eye, and brown in microscopic thin sections.

On Earth we find “tektites” small (1 – 30 mm) blobs of glass, usually black, but brown in microscopic thin sections. Shapes are spherical, teardrop, flanged discs, even dumbbell- shaped. All obviously have flown through the air, and solidified before landing. Tektites are found on Earth in well-defined “fields” , for example strewn across southern Australia. One hypothesis as to their origin is that they too, are splatters of glass from meteor impacts on the Moon.

Here is a reference to John F. Lindsay’s book printed in 1976.

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications...ont_matter.pdf

Developments in Solar System- and Space Science, 3
Editors: Z. KOPAL and A.G.W. CAMERON
LUNAR STRATIGRAPHY AND SEDIMENTOLOGY
JOHN F. LINDSAY
The Lunar Science Institute, Houston, Texas, U.S.A.
ISBN: 0-444-41443-6
Copyright @ 1976 by Elsevier Scientific Publishing Company, Amsterdam
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 20-06-2019, 09:14 PM
AstroJunk's Avatar
AstroJunk (Jonathan)
Shadow Chaser

AstroJunk is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Moonee Beach
Posts: 1,909
And an interview transcript from a friend:

Ok, found out from George that he was at La Trobe Uni during Apollo 11.
Went specifically to see him today as it being the 43rd anniversary of Apollo 11. Did a little interview, here's a small sample.

He was put in charge of the samples and was responsible for making the Moon rock microscope slides and moon dust slides.

When it came time for the Moon dust, there was an armed guard stationed outside the lab doors (as when doing the rock samples) but the only real difference was when handling the dust samples - George had to walk on a flooring covered by aluminium foil. Reason - if any of the dust samples fell on the floor - he could hear it hitting the foil. He then had to get on his hands and knees and pick up whatever amount dropped. Nothing was to be wasted. For example - when some more samples arrived from NASA, they were encased in a soft - extremely flimsy - cardboard box.
Inside were the glass tubes containing the samples. The packing material between each glass tube was - wait for it - men's underwear. Y fronts to be exact!!! So, along with the flimsy box not to mention the suspect packing material, some of the glass tubes broke - spilling their contents into the box and onto the Y fronts. What did George have to do, pick all the glass out of the box - gently brush the dust off the Y fronts - and put ALL the dust into a new tube!

NASA could send men to the moon and back. But their packaging left a lot to be desired! As George says, maybe the budget went to Apollo and nothing was left - but at least they washed the Y fronts before using them as packing!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21-06-2019, 06:32 PM
sharpiel
Registered User

sharpiel is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 715
What an awesome thread.

I wish I'd handled moon stuff. I hope I'm alive long enough to be a Luna tourist.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27-06-2019, 09:25 AM
sil's Avatar
sil (Steve)
Not even a speck of dust

sil is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1,474
Most of the goodwill rocks have vanished to collectors etc over the years. there is also a lot of moon/mars rock pieces and dust available to purchase which is basically a scam no matter how many certificates it comes with. So take care if the interest takes you to make a purchase. I have a little of each and heap of meteorites/tektites in my collection and while the moon/mars dirt is as authentic as I can establish I dont have a mass spectrometer to test and all information supplied is publically available and so easy to provide as false proof with the samples. I purchased on the assumption they are fakes and i consider them curios in my collection only.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 27-06-2019, 10:28 AM
Terry B's Avatar
Terry B
Country living & viewing

Terry B is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Armidale
Posts: 2,789
Quote:
Originally Posted by sil View Post
Most of the goodwill rocks have vanished to collectors etc over the years. there is also a lot of moon/mars rock pieces and dust available to purchase which is basically a scam no matter how many certificates it comes with. So take care if the interest takes you to make a purchase. I have a little of each and heap of meteorites/tektites in my collection and while the moon/mars dirt is as authentic as I can establish I dont have a mass spectrometer to test and all information supplied is publically available and so easy to provide as false proof with the samples. I purchased on the assumption they are fakes and i consider them curios in my collection only.
I hope the piece I handled is real. It belongs to NASA but you never know.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 27-06-2019, 12:11 PM
sil's Avatar
sil (Steve)
Not even a speck of dust

sil is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry B View Post
I hope the piece I handled is real. It belongs to NASA but you never know.
Yep, plenty of breccia family rocks on earth that are also formed on the moon.

Still i'm jealous at a rare opportunity. Part of why I like meteorites, its something from "up there" and not just a regular rock. Of course it can be difficult to confirm accurate identification, not all types exhibit the same identifying features especially as they fragment so much coming to earth and then weathering etc. Iron nickel meteorites are fairly common and affordable especially from known locations like Diablo Canyon. So again a little common sense when buying a specimen and check the seller out . Nice little samples can be bought commonly for under $50 and I think a great pressie for astronomers, especially the young!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 27-06-2019, 12:54 PM
gary
Registered User

gary is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mt. Kuring-Gai
Posts: 5,928
It was recently reported that NASA was opening lunar samples that had been
vacuum-packed on the moon and that had never been exposed to the
Earth's atmosphere.

In the past 50 years since the Apollo missions, the sophistication of
scientific instrumentation and analytical techniques has improved,
giving the potential to make new discoveries from pristine samples.

If you ever have the opportunity to visit the Johnston Space Center (JSC)
in Houston, the tour guide may have pointed out Building 31N on the
campus, which is the purpose-built Lunar Sample Laboratory Facility
where most of the lunar rocks and soil samples are housed and have
been analysed by teams of scientists nearly every day for the past
50 years.

The lab's collection consists of 382 kilograms of lunar material, comprising
2200 individual specimens which have been processed into more than
110,000 individually cataloged samples.

Since the lunar rocks are regarded as a priceless national treasure of
inestimable scientific value, about 15 percent are also kept in
safekeeping at White Sands in New Mexico.

Marcia Dunn at Associated Press provides a follow-up story today
(June 26th 2019) on the unsealing of the pristine samples :-

https://phys.org/news/2019-06-nasa-m...-missions.html
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27-06-2019, 01:15 PM
gary
Registered User

gary is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mt. Kuring-Gai
Posts: 5,928
In November last year, a 200mg sample of lunar material brought
back by the Soviet Union's robotic Luna-16 in 1970 sold at Sothebys for
USD855,000 (AUD1.22 million).

The sample was originally presented by the Soviet Government
to Nina Ivanovna Koroleva, the widow of former Soviet space
program director Sergei Pavlovich Korolev.

That makes the price of lunar rock, backed-up with provenance,
over 94,000-times the current spot price of gold.

Story here :-
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kionasm.../#7d0e4ddb7f7d
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 27-06-2019, 05:24 PM
Sunfish's Avatar
Sunfish (Ray)
Registered User

Sunfish is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wollongong
Posts: 1,909
If it costs $ 4.5 M to put a kg on the moon how much would it cost to bring back 1kg?

Nasa has bought back 382 kg of samples and the Apollo missions cost $25.4B.

https://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/in...?topic=27789.0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 11:07 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Testar
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement