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  #61  
Old 08-03-2013, 06:56 AM
Enrique
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Originally Posted by avandonk View Post
I am getting ready to collect more data. Meanwhile all you lot can argue amongst yourselves.

The response to this thread was and is amazing. It has obviously stirred the complacent into activity.

There is only one thing better than good argument. It is finding out you are wrong or ignorant. This is how I learn. As I am often both!

If I find out there is an Irish labarinthine component to this debacle then we are doomed!


Bert
I am with you Bert. The one that learn the most is the real winner!

I will learn more because I am the most ignorant. Keep posting please....

Enrique
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  #62  
Old 08-03-2013, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by marc4darkskies View Post
Weeell Not quite true Stephen

See my "quick & dirty" 5 min stretching effort in Photoshop (on page 1 of this thread). No sharpening applied (sorry) - just curves, levels and a touch of shadow/highlight to illustrate the extent of faint neb.

This is a 50% scaled image: http://upload.pbase.com/gailmarc/ima...24144/original

Nice job pulling out the fainter bits though
Best result so far IMHO. No sharpening needed, good tonal quality to the overall presentation. HA images only need a simple amount of processing, but if you give someone a sharpening or noise reduction tool, they feel they have to use them.

Recall what Ansel Adams said: "There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept"

And my own *******ized verison of one of his quotes: "Photoshop was created to take care of God's mistakes in establishing tonal relationships"

jg
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  #63  
Old 08-03-2013, 08:35 AM
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I need to realign the OTS after some experiments.

This is a natve pixel size RGB. Only corrected for flats and darks and then stacked. 66MB


http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.co...03/CAR_RGB.zip


Exposures are 20x4 minutes for each of RGB. I have been using the RBI flush feature of the PL16803 routinely and it definitely reduces 'noise' due to ghost images. Especially when dithering.

I discovered this after imaging the Horse Head in NII, I had two 'comets' in all subsequent frames of Thor's Helmet. These 'comets' just happened to be where Alnitak and Alnilam were. Their diffuse nature was due to the dithering.

Bert
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Last edited by avandonk; 08-03-2013 at 08:46 AM.
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  #64  
Old 08-03-2013, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dvj View Post
Recall what Ansel Adams said: "There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept"

And my own *******ized verison of one of his quotes: "Photoshop was created to take care of God's mistakes in establishing tonal relationships"
Some of his other quotes come to mind as well with regards to this thread;

"To photograph truthfully and effectively is to see beneath the surfaces and record the qualities of nature and humanity which live or are latent in all things."

and

"Some photographers take reality... and impose the domination of their own thought and spirit. Others come before reality more tenderly and a photograph to them is an instrument of love and revelation."

and finally;

"Photography, as a powerful medium of expression and communications, offers an infinite variety of perception, interpretation and execution."

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  #65  
Old 08-03-2013, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marc4darkskies View Post
Weeell Not quite true Stephen

See my "quick & dirty" 5 min stretching effort in Photoshop (on page 1 of this thread). No sharpening applied (sorry) - just curves, levels and a touch of shadow/highlight to illustrate the extent of faint neb.

This is a 50% scaled image: http://upload.pbase.com/gailmarc/ima...24144/original

Nice job pulling out the fainter bits though
Your version is my personal favourite too Marcus, great job.
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  #66  
Old 08-03-2013, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marc4darkskies View Post
Weeell Not quite true Stephen

See my "quick & dirty" 5 min stretching effort in Photoshop (on page 1 of this thread). No sharpening applied (sorry) - just curves, levels and a touch of shadow/highlight to illustrate the extent of faint neb.

This is a 50% scaled image: http://upload.pbase.com/gailmarc/ima...24144/original

Nice job pulling out the fainter bits though

This is my favourite as well so far. Too much sharpening in some of others IMO.
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  #67  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:11 AM
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Time to join the fray. Thanks Bert for making this data available for everyone to experiment with. Certainly is a very helpful learning tool for a newbie like me to have access to quality data. The "robust" discussion has also been informative, giving an insight into the different processing philosophies employed by the various experienced imagers amongst us.

Anyway, here is my feeble attempt at Bert's RBG data. (processed with PixInsight)
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Last edited by rmuhlack; 08-03-2013 at 10:34 AM.
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  #68  
Old 08-03-2013, 05:22 PM
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Amazing data to play with Bert!
Here is my rendition: http://www.astrobin.com/full/35152/?mod=none
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  #69  
Old 08-03-2013, 06:09 PM
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Interesting thread and kudos to Bert for sharing his work, but is it really surprising to see the quality of the data given the quality/precision of the scope, mount, camera, filters etc?
I'm not undermining the effort required at all, especially to fix tilt, Just a bit surprised.
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  #70  
Old 08-03-2013, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by alistairsam View Post
Interesting thread and kudos to Bert for sharing his work, but is it really surprising to see the quality of the data given the quality/precision of the scope, mount, camera, filters etc?
I'm not undermining the effort required at all, especially to fix tilt, Just a bit surprised.

What is not surprising is that many others can get more out of my data than I can. These efforts vary from the sublimely subtle to too much enhanced real information. We all know who was close to ideal as judged by his more knowledgable peers.

I knew I was not doing something quite correct by the comments or constructive criticism of some of the 'old pros'.

This exercise was basically a learning experience for me and I hope others.

What I have come to realize is I still have a long way to go. I also now know the general direction I should take.

I did not want to just blindly plod on in the mistaken belief that the best equipment produces the best results without knowledge and practised skills.

The only winning I am interested in is by doing better than I did last week. After all this is a hobby that hones the mind to wonder at the beauty and immensity in both time and space of what we are imaging.

Bert
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  #71  
Old 08-03-2013, 08:22 PM
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Hi everyone!

Here's my attempt at processing Bert's RGB data using StarTools. A 2x2 binned version of Bert's original data can be found here on AstroBin.

Cheers,
Mario
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  #72  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:45 PM
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My attempt at LRGB with the NII as luminance.

Many thanks Bert for this opportunity to try our hand with such amazing data.

Cheers,
Cam
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  #73  
Old 09-03-2013, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by avandonk View Post
What is not surprising is that many others can get more out of my data than I can. These efforts vary from the sublimely subtle to too much enhanced real information. We all know who was close to ideal as judged by his more knowledgable peers.

I knew I was not doing something quite correct by the comments or constructive criticism of some of the 'old pros'.

This exercise was basically a learning experience for me and I hope others.

What I have come to realize is I still have a long way to go. I also now know the general direction I should take.

I did not want to just blindly plod on in the mistaken belief that the best equipment produces the best results without knowledge and practised skills.

The only winning I am interested in is by doing better than I did last week. After all this is a hobby that hones the mind to wonder at the beauty and immensity in both time and space of what we are imaging.

Bert
Those are very thoughtful comments Bert! The RH200 is a great little scope, capable of excellent signal gathering ability regardless of the array or filters used. We all view the world through different personal astetics when it comes to art, photography, music, etc. As we have seen, there are no 2 alike when it comes to processing your data.
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  #74  
Old 11-03-2013, 10:04 AM
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I would like to thank everyone formally that participated in this thread. It taught me a lot about my own lack of knowledge by the vast depth and variation of others knowledge about the nuances of processing.

It also made me realize how good the data really is when I get everything correct when collecting it.

In future when I post an image just ask and I will put up a full res unprocessed compressed file for all to play with.

We take images for us and others to see. There is no point putting them in a metaphorical dark drawer.

I was brought up in the old school of science where information was freely shared. The only proviso was attribution to its origin.

Bert
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