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  #41  
Old 27-12-2015, 12:32 PM
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alpal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
As Rick said to win. Period. Winning doesn't help anybody. Collecting awards or gloating or being "honored" doesn't help the community in the hobby and again I stress the word hobby. Sharing the way you do things to achieve a good result and explaining it when asked directly benefits everybody. Because one day even a noob will come around and find a better easier way to do it that you didn't even think about. And again everyone can replicate it and progress as a group of people sharing similar interests. That's a way cooler attitude than raving on about any award. That's what I call a winner.

Hi Marc,
Some people like to enter competitions - I do.
They are not getting paid to produce their images so
I suppose the satisfaction of winning is another kind of reward &
also serves as recognition for the immense amount of work they have done.

If you don't like competitions then don't participate in any way -
don't look at the pictures & don't vote.
This is a free world & people are allowed to do what they want.
Although it may be bad to gloat over winning first prize it's just as
bad to put someone down for entering a competition.
Above all - don't take life so seriously - as you said - it's just a hobby.
I haven't produced many pictures this year -
but I will when I feel like it - whenever that may be -
at least I haven't got a boss telling me that I have to - another advantage of a hobby.

Remember too that many amateurs have now got exceptional equipment &
methods plus the integration time to bring out details that the larger
professional telescopes don't have the time or will to do.
To do so & get say an APOD is quite an achievement - wouldn't you agree?

cheers
Allan
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  #42  
Old 27-12-2015, 02:11 PM
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pdalek (Patrick)
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Very many years ago I knew someone who could talk for hours/days/months/... on what audio gear sounded more natural. One day I asked what live performance he last attended. None any, ever!

Amateur imaging astrobuffs can argue over whose image is a more mauvy shade of pinky-russet ad nauseam. If you look up at M42 under good conditions you may see a very slightly pinky patch. if you were transported right up close what would you see? A very slightly pinky everything. Actually biology will intervene and so a less very slightly pinky everything. A human astrophotographer near M42 would likely compla*in about the bad light pollution ma*king images too red and foggy.

Astrophotography can be used to record scientific data or produce pretty pictures. Realistic pictures, from a human perspective, are boring.
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  #43  
Old 27-12-2015, 02:13 PM
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multiweb (Marc)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpal View Post
Hi Marc,
Some people like to enter competitions - I do.
They are not getting paid to produce their images so
I suppose the satisfaction of winning is another kind of reward &
also serves as recognition for the immense amount of work they have done.
That's cool. By any mean if you like to compete then do so. I don't stop anyone from competing. Nobody's getting paid. Well, some are... If you think it's an immense amount of work and you need recognition for it then you're in the wrong hobby. I do it to relax and clear my head. Get out of the smoke. Socialize, etc... Different approach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpal View Post
If you don't like competitions then don't participate in any way -
don't look at the pictures & don't vote.
This is a free world & people are allowed to do what they want.
Although it may be bad to gloat over winning first prize it's just as
bad to put someone down for entering a competition.
It's not that I don't like them, I don't like what they create and promote. A culture of egocentric people who'd rather take than give, secrecy about methodology and the on going verbose and self congratulory prose that goes on and on and on, until it degenerates again. The OP posted a simple thread about respecting the light and again it turned really quickly about who won, how they won, was it fair, wtf... who gives one? Never did put someone down for entering a competition. Don't know where you got the idea. There are competitors who are willing to share processing tips. I was very lucky when I started in AP to have Jase around. He used to invariably list all the processing steps when he posted photos. Never said no to answering a direct question. Always gave clear instructions and a lot of people benefited from his tutoring. He won the DM too I believe. But he's the exception.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpal View Post
Above all - don't take life so seriously - as you said - it's just a hobby.
I haven't produced many pictures this year -
but I will when I feel like it - whenever that may be -
at least I haven't got a boss telling me that I have to - another advantage of a hobby.
And I take it as such. Just saying things as they are. That's all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpal View Post
Remember too that many amateurs have now got exceptional equipment &
methods plus the integration time to bring out details that the larger
professional telescopes don't have the time or will to do.
To do so & get say an APOD is quite an achievement - wouldn't you agree?
The technology has certainly improved and the results achieved are chalk and cheese than say 10 years ago. I don't care much about APODs or any other awards TBH. There are a lot of very talented imagers who don't even enter or participate in events. The internet is full of fantastic photos. If I anybody wants reference material it's there for the picking.

What I'm interested in a community is asking questions, sharing tips and tricks, learning new ones. Not reading 100s posts about how I won this or discovered this or whatever with invariably the same bunch of groupies chimming in on and on and on.
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  #44  
Old 27-12-2015, 05:16 PM
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ZeroID (Brent)
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+1 to Marc and his earlier post as well.

I image (badly) for my own enjoyment and for the challenges it offers to my technical skills and the things it has taught me about photography, the universe, mechanics, people, computers and just stuff !

I've entered a few minor competitions and never won but always enjoyed seeing other entries and interpretations of a subject. I've long ago accepted the fact that I see things differently from other people and what I think is 'right' ain't necessarily correct

The images posted on here and elsewhere and the fun competitions, APOD etc have just encouraged me to keep trying and to see things in a different light

This forum has been one of the best I've been involved with for sharing and encouraging others to grow and learn.

It's all good ...
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  #45  
Old 27-12-2015, 06:58 PM
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Atmos (Colin)
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Creating a scientifically colour accurate image is not that difficult. The easiest way to do this is to image with Johnson-Cousins photometric filters and then just use stars such as Vega as a white balance. These days it is easier through, the use of Aladin Sky Atlas where you can put in the coordinates and load up an interactive image with photometric results through various filters for hundreds of stars in a field. This is all for making a scientifically accurate picture.

I personally see it as being scientifically accurate as long as there is nothing added or subtracted. There isn't anything unscientific about doing HDR as a way of being able to see both the highlights and the lowlights. Via the screen stretch I can select whatever part of the image I want, whether the highlights or the low lights, mid tones, whatever. HDR does nothing more than allow all to visually be seen at once. Via a linear stretch I can select part of the range I want to see and study, HDR allows me to see it all at once (although it does destroy photometric results in the process, it is a good visual aid).

As for making one colour correct for us lowly humans, this is far more difficult! The main difficulty is quite simply that one persons red or green or blue is different to the next! I myself have some trouble differentiating between slight shades of green. My eyesight has me failing all colour tests, the ones that are designed to tell you whether you have colour blindness or not, I am not colour blind as such but I don't have subtle variations. So what I personally see as being a perfect colour balance (if I had a perfectly calibrated monitor and not a Macbook Pro!) has a very slim chance of being correct for most people.

I had never even heard of the Malin Awards until a few days ago, must just be a part of being new onto the astrophotography scene. If the awards are named after him I personally don't see any problem with him being the sole judge and picking whatever he likes, that's what you get for having your own awards
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  #46  
Old 27-12-2015, 08:30 PM
rally
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Colin,

HDR is the process of adding and subtracting to the pixels in a very non linear way - so its not scientifically accurate !

The HDR used in some of the award winning images and in some imaging processes is much more complicated than that - its selectively operating on the structures, chroma and intensities alike, again in a completely non linear way, but once you start blending new channels such as Ha into R and L - you must also completely change the underlying colour balance to achieve white balance stars and avoid the typical magenta cast that results - and so you have destroyed the original colour - from a scientific perspective.

Rally
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  #47  
Old 27-12-2015, 08:56 PM
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astronobob (Bob)
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Think I wasted about 30-40 minutes of my life, But

But,

I did get one laugh from it all, , ,

Quote:
Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
Always cracked me up how people can get so agro over such trivial things.

Here's your new year's resolution right here. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by RB View Post
Only if you upgrade to a bigger camera.

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  #48  
Old 27-12-2015, 09:22 PM
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RB (Andrew)
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Onya Bob !

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  #49  
Old 27-12-2015, 10:32 PM
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I too think it would be a sad day if people only processed their images to one person's ideal whether that person be David Malin or someone else. I love to see the variety of personal interpretations of the various objects, there is no right or wrong way.

Personally my APOTY goes to the image of NGC253 that disclosed the existence of NGC253-dw2.
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  #50  
Old 28-12-2015, 08:29 AM
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Wait...all the things we put ourselves through to tease the darn light into our scopes and it still wants respect
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  #51  
Old 28-12-2015, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunama View Post
I too think it would be a sad day if people only processed their images to one person's ideal whether that person be David Malin or someone else. I love to see the variety of personal interpretations of the various objects, there is no right or wrong way.

Personally my APOTY goes to the image of NGC253 that disclosed the existence of NGC253-dw2.

I agree. I'm no imager but find it fascinating to see different interpretations of familiar objects. Who wants to see the same standard rendition over and over again???
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  #52  
Old 28-12-2015, 08:40 PM
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alpal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
That's cool. By any mean if you like to compete then do so. I don't stop anyone from competing. Nobody's getting paid. Well, some are... If you think it's an immense amount of work and you need recognition for it then you're in the wrong hobby. I do it to relax and clear my head. Get out of the smoke. Socialize, etc... Different approach.
I find imaging a bit stressful at times.
I would love to have an observatory & not have to set up from scratch every time.
It's not easy when you are working full time &
have to start work early the next morning.
Sometimes I think this hobby is more for retired people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
It's not that I don't like them, I don't like what they create and promote. A culture of egocentric people who'd rather take than give, secrecy about methodology and the on going verbose and self congratulory prose that goes on and on and on, until it degenerates again. The OP posted a simple thread about respecting the light and again it turned really quickly about who won, how they won, was it fair, wtf... who gives one? Never did put someone down for entering a competition. Don't know where you got the idea. There are competitors who are willing to share processing tips. I was very lucky when I started in AP to have Jase around. He used to invariably list all the processing steps when he posted photos. Never said no to answering a direct question. Always gave clear instructions and a lot of people benefited from his tutoring. He won the DM too I believe. But he's the exception.
Not everyone is egocentric.
I do my best to tell people any secret/trick that I find.
I even made sure that Louie's videos were posted on Youtube
which I think are an immense help to get started in Photoshop.
see here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ5...Ge66vsuSaXb-0A
However I would agree that many people are secretive about
their mirror holders & other such designs.
Yes - I have heard rumors of people using incredible secret software
to process photos but that may be false.


Quote:
Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
The technology has certainly improved and the results achieved are chalk and cheese than say 10 years ago. I don't care much about APODs or any other awards TBH. There are a lot of very talented imagers who don't even enter or participate in events. The internet is full of fantastic photos. If I anybody wants reference material it's there for the picking.

What I'm interested in a community is asking questions, sharing tips and tricks, learning new ones. Not reading 100s posts about how I won this or discovered this or whatever with invariably the same bunch of groupies chimming in on and on and on.

Yes - the Technology is racing ahead but
I'm still waiting for a 90% efficient sensor as large as a KAF8300 & the same price!

Who are these groupies.
( Let's not name them. )

cheers
Allan
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  #53  
Old 05-01-2016, 11:17 AM
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LewisM
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I agree 100% with Matt.

I gave up trying to please anyone but myself with AP. I even gave up trying to keep up with the Jones' in terms of gear. I am happy with something portable and optically perfect... my most cherished imaging was with an FSQ-85EDX. Loved that scope more than any other.

I also must thank Louis Pukalis for his VERY helpful videos on processing. Fantastic stuff... I use all his techniques. For the extremelly limited imaging time I ever get his techniques just work. And well.

Egotists and the boastful have their place, but the people who need their egos continually stroked are truly missing out... as they are Not Respecting Their Life.
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