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Old 29-08-2015, 05:44 PM
edelweiss (Eeda)
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which dslr should i choose

Hello everyone, this is my second post regarding dslr for beginner after few months.

I'm interested in buying dslr but for both normal use (especially landscape pics) and astrophotography

Someone suggested me 550d or 650d in the first post, but seems like those 2 are no longer available in the market

Right now i'm down into 2 choices ; canon 700d or 750d (if i'm not mistaken, these are successors for those 2 above, correct me if i'm wrong). Any people wants to share their experience of using these 2? Or perhaps suggesting other dslr?

Or suggesting me any website/shop that sell dslr at cheaper/decent price. I live in Perth btw

PS:This is my first dslr

EDITED: what about 100d vs 700d?the price between these 2 is not that different
EDITED 2: OR NIKON D3300?

Last edited by edelweiss; 29-08-2015 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 29-08-2015, 06:29 PM
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RB (Andrew)
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Originally Posted by edelweiss View Post
Right now i'm down into 2 choices ; canon 700d or 750d (if i'm not mistaken, these are successors for those 2 above, correct me if i'm wrong). Any people wants to share their experience of using these 2? Or perhaps suggesting other dslr?
PS:This is my first dslr
I haven't kept up with what's on offer lately re:Canon DSLRs but I did see that Canon announced the 760D recently.
Just thought I'd mention it.

RB
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Old 29-08-2015, 07:42 PM
edelweiss (Eeda)
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I haven't kept up with what's on offer lately re:Canon DSLRs but I did see that Canon announced the 760D recently.
Just thought I'd mention it.

RB
Yup,i've read about 760d somewhere in the net. It's like manual version of 750d. Tq for the article
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Old 29-08-2015, 10:00 PM
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Atmos (Colin)
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As someone that owns a Nikon I would personally recommend a Canon for astrophotography :-) Even if only because you can install a Cold Finger into one.
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Old 29-08-2015, 10:46 PM
edelweiss (Eeda)
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As someone that owns a Nikon I would personally recommend a Canon for astrophotography :-) Even if only because you can install a Cold Finger into one.
what about nikon itself as dslr for normal picture?(daily basis)
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Old 29-08-2015, 10:54 PM
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For day to day use unless you are using it for very specific uses its really much of a muchness. I've shot top end canon and nikon over the years. I find canon lenses to be superior even if by nothing more than my wow factor at images. I find nikon bodies far more intuitive to my style of shooting and far better ergonomically. For Astrophotography. Get a canon.
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Old 30-08-2015, 12:42 AM
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For day to day use unless you are using it for very specific uses its really much of a muchness. I've shot top end canon and nikon over the years. I find canon lenses to be superior even if by nothing more than my wow factor at images. I find nikon bodies far more intuitive to my style of shooting and far better ergonomically. For Astrophotography. Get a canon.
I tend to agree, haven't used enough Canon lens' to be able to comment but when it comes to taking photos on a day to day basis, they're much the same. From my experience Nikons are easier to use and manipulate photographically than their Canon counterparts. On my D700 I NEVER go into any of the menus because I can control absolutely everything from the buttons and things on the body. Unless the Canon general design has changed recently, they require you to enter the menus to change different aspects.

Canon for astro, either for day to day use. Your best bet would be to down to Teds Cameras and have a feel of a few different Canon's and Nikon's play with the menus and buttons and see which you prefer the feel of.
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Old 30-08-2015, 04:11 PM
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The Canon 600D, 650D, 700D... all use the same sensor (reportedly) and are known quantities for astrophotography, but as such have been around a while and is old-tech compared to some other models on the market.

The 750D and 760D use a new 24MP sensor which is as yet unproven...or at least, I've not seen anyone posting images from one Could be a great sensor, who knows
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Old 01-09-2015, 10:37 AM
pjphilli (Peter)
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Hi Eeda
I initially went down the DSLR route. Trouble with dual use of the camera for astro and general camera use is that the infrared filter in the camera severely restricts the capture of red nebulosity. I bought a second hand Canon 400D and I took the camera apart and removed this filter. This renders the camera useless for ordinary photography (but could be solved by the use of an external IR filter?) The 400D then worked fine for astro use for images up to about 5 minutes when camera noise starts to become a problem.
I made a Peltier cooler for it but then it became too bulky and I considered that the gain in noise performance was not very much.
So I then bought a second hand QHY8 colour astro camera with a similar
size sensor to the 400D (23.6x15.7mm). This camera is peltier cooled to about -40deg C and I am able to take 30minute single images with negligible camera noise and negligible blooming on bright stars.
My advice would be to get separate cameras for normal and astro
use - maybe an extra expense but it is well worth it if you are serious
about astro imaging.
Cheers Peter
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Old 01-09-2015, 10:42 AM
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For Canon, one of these will restore the colour balance to a full-spectrum modified camera http://www.astronomik.com/en/photogr...cd-filter.html
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:01 AM
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rustigsmed (Russell)
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Hi Eeda,

i'd probably suggest a 700d (or older) rather than a 750 or 760d simply because they have larger pixels.

however all entry level dslr's are all great you can't really go wrong unless they are not compatible with capture software. i'd check compatibility with astrophotography software such as backyard eos before deciding really ...

www.kogan.com.au has cheap - grey import prices. jbhifi has ok prices but note that some listed are grey imports also.

cheers
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Old 02-09-2015, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjphilli View Post
My advice would be to get separate cameras for normal and astro
use - maybe an extra expense but it is well worth it if you are serious
about astro imaging.
Cheers Peter
+1 get the right tool for the job.
Not that DSLR or even compacts can't be used for astrophotography if you learn how to use them effectively and get a solid processing workflow going.
I'm stuck with digital camera AP due to health problems. I may not be able to use my large scope anymore but I can still enjoy AP.
Imaging cams require different skills than a regular camera. I can only suggest you buy quality and dont be swayed by specs too much. Buy a quality lens instead of kit lenses. Be prepared to put in time to learn to use your gear.
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Old 03-09-2015, 10:07 PM
edelweiss (Eeda)
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Thank you everyone for the kind replies. I've given some thoughts about 750d and i think i'm gonna drop it and go for 700d instead. But right now, I got stuck between nikon 3300d and 700d (i'll be buying one of these 2, hopefully ).

This may sounds silly, but i'm totally beginner for astrophotography. So I may only use this dslr for milky way and gonna try to use for my dobsonian 8" scope (i know it's hard but i wanna give a go) like nebulas and star clusters. So will either these 2 dslrs can fulfill my intention for this basic astrophotography?


PS: I don't know why i'm so attracted to nikon d3300 (maybe bcoz of cheaper price?hahaha) but since i want to have dslr for a long time use, I have to think carefully before buying it.May i know why canon is highly recommended for astrophotography?

PS: Is sony alpha 5000 a good choice for night/telescope use?
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Old 03-09-2015, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edelweiss View Post
Thank you everyone for the kind replies. I've given some thoughts about 750d and i think i'm gonna drop it and go for 700d instead. But right now, I got stuck between nikon 3300d and 700d (i'll be buying one of these 2, hopefully ).

This may sounds silly, but i'm totally beginner for astrophotography. So I may only use this dslr for milky way and gonna try to use for my dobsonian 8" scope (i know it's hard but i wanna give a go) like nebulas and star clusters. So will either these 2 dslrs can fulfill my intention for this basic astrophotography?


PS: I don't know why i'm so attracted to nikon d3300 (maybe bcoz of cheaper price?hahaha) but since i want to have dslr for a long time use, I have to think carefully before buying it.May i know why canon is highly recommended for astrophotography?

PS: Is sony alpha 5000 a good choice for night/telescope use?
In all honesty you will hardly see w difference between the two. However the Nikon is 24mp which means smaller pixels like the 750d etc vs 700d. Bigger pixels are better for asto work (well depth and sensitivity). I don't know about the Sony they have great chips these days. I'd probably go second hand 1100 or 550 or 600 or 650 if it were me. After stacking etc these variations disappear ...
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Old 04-09-2015, 05:10 AM
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A few of us have SONY gear and love it, Low noise sensors, brilliant ergonomics and menus. If you are not expecting to connect via PC to the DSLR then that is my choice but if you want to control and download via PC then Canon with BYEOS or AP Tools is one preferred route. I haven't tried Nikon connectivity so unable to comment on that but BYNIKON (or whatever it's called) is now available from the same developer.

If you are just using the inbuilt timer or a plug in remote then any camera will do, it comes down to how easy is it to get to focus and frame via the LCD panel or EV viewer.

I use the Canon 450D for the ease of use and it's the lowest ( and cheapest) model with Live View, a big plus for the Canon options. But if you are only using a DOB then long exposures aren't an option anyway due to field rotation and tracking. DSO's and Nebs via DOB, you'll need high ISO ( and therefore noise ) and short exposures. Don't be put off too much though, Raymo is showing us all how single frame exposures can be pushed to the processing limit to give quite amazing results.
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Old 04-09-2015, 08:34 AM
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With Nikon the 7000 series are the ones to aim for. Anything less you will want to upgrade, they are finally the camera i waited years for Nikon to release but ended up getting a D800e and still tempted to get a 7x00 for just astro work.

Never used Canon, but the distance between the rear of their lens and the focal plane differs significantly from Nikon allowing Canons to have clip in astro filters. As a regular camera i dont think there is any real difference between canon and nikon at same price points, both can take great shots, both take better shot when you use good (non-kit) lenses and learn how to take photos.

Sony I would be reluctant about, as regular cameras they are fantastic however as has been recently proved the way Sony handles data there is signal loss even in their RAW formats. It's irrelevant for regular photography but effects signal quality in astro work. Depends how you are capturing, processing and using the shots too. How serious are you with your shots? Sony's benefits may exceed the issue far enough that you won't notice it though, I'm just glad I didn't impulse buy one.

Whatever you go for, should have live view and if you can get a good 70-200mm lens f2.8 or f4 and avoid the kit lenses. Canon and Nikon have equivalent offerings and a good 70-200 lens is pretty much in every pro fessionals kit, the kit 70-300mm is vastly inferior in every way. Some people are happy with that level of lens but you are better off buying the body on its own or bundled with a good lens ( some dealers will give you a discount, kit lenses are pretty much unsellable second hand.
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Old 04-09-2015, 09:41 AM
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Sony Nex 5N I think is well regarded as an astro cam. Small, lightweight and low noise. Its the Sony 16mp Exmor sensor that is used in many other cameras including Pentax, Nikon (since moved to different sensors).

Nikon uses a lot of Sony sensors (they are the best) for example D800, D750 but Nikon also uses a Toshiba 24mp sensor in one of their cameras (perhaps D3200?).

Nikon used to have a star eating hot pixel noise suppression algorithim that weakened faint stars in RAW images. In later models that was corrected.

Sony in their latest models do that though on exposures over 30 seconds (bulb mode).

Nex 5n can also take apps, one of which is a time lapse app which is handy.

Fuji uses the Sony Exmor 16mp sensor.

There is a rumour Sony is releasing an A7000 which has a 24mp APS sensor with WRGB filters that has the best low light performance of any camera if that is true.

Nikon D810a is a dedicated astro cam as is Canon 60Da.

I could be wrong but I have not seen particularly impressive 600D astro shots. It seems a very noisy camera.

Canon generally are best supported in this area but their sensors are aging and losing ground technically so to say all the top brands are the same is actually not true at all. Sony sensors are several generations ahead of Canon, so much so that it seems unlikely Canon will ever catch up and may continue to start using Sony sensors like they did a in a recent camera release.

But other makers like Nikon utilise the Sony sensor better than Sony themselves who are still fairly new to the high end camera game that Canon/Nikon dominate.

I'd personally go for a 2nd hand 6D if affordable. Now you'll see some good results. 60Da seemed disappointing, Nikon D810a is way too expensive, modified Sony Nex 5n would be good.

Despite the aging sensor tech Canon does make incremental advances and the weak spot in Canon sensors is shadow area noise. You can't boost shadows like you can a Sony sensor where black can be made to be light with clear detail and little noise versus a coloured noise mess with the Canon. But the Canon has all the accessories, software support, they tend to have low amp glow although that varies by model and the latest 6D is still very low noise which is quite a good result from Canon. Canon white balance though is a bit of a challenge that Canon users don't realise until they use a Sony or Fuji. I did a side by side shot Milky Way 5D3 and Sony A7r. Both on auto white balance. The Canon sky was badly brown and was going to take a lot to correct. The Sony showed perfect colour straight out of the camera, picked up green sky glow the Canon was not even showing and took no time to process. I am not 100% sure but I suspect also Sony ISO6400 is quite a bit brighter than both Nikon and Canon which must be overstating their ISO a bit. Fuji does for sure, by about a 1/3rd.

I have a half done project where I modified a Sony Nex 6. Unfortunately I have done something wrong and need to pull it apart (its probably some tiny wire I disconnected).

A modded Sony Nex 6 would be a nice imaging machine. Small, light, 16mp Sony Exmor goodness. The filters are actually easy to remove, its pulling apart the tightly packed myriad small pieces that is daunting.

Fuji X series modified would be even better.

I have a 36mp Sony a7R that I may mod if I upgrade. That could be good.
The star eating issue and lossy compression is a minor issue that is more noticeable on star trails than nightscapes or astro images. It shows when dim high contrast areas are pushed hard. I personally haven't seen the effect but would prefer Sony offer a lossless RAW like Canikon does.

Greg.
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Old 04-09-2015, 04:24 PM
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I could be wrong but I have not seen particularly impressive 600D astro shots. It seems a very noisy camera.
Ouch that hurts a bit Greg

Going through an old thread i see one Greg Bradley said at 27-05-2015, 01:24 PM I agree, a big improvement and high grade image.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=135172
post number 10...

I've got to say though i haven't used the a7s much yet but with my limited use with it i wasn't too impressed with the raw files. it makes jpgs look nice and smooth but i don't know if i'm used to processing canon raw and not sony files but there seemed to be more depth in the canon files. I need to get back out there and give the sony more of a go, weather has been shocking.

the other reason i suggested the 600d is that there is an upgrade path through central ds, if down the track you want to modify it http://www.centralds.net/cam/?produc...-600d-ii-pro-3
you can get superb cooling and even mono modification.

also worth keeping in mind the OP was mentioning entry level cameras not the higher end stuff or full frame cameras some of these older ones like the 600d are so cheap now.. got to say though those WRGB sensors look very very interesting! i always enjoy reading what you have to say on sensors especially the sony stuff Greg!
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Old 04-09-2015, 04:50 PM
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I do have to agree with one comment Greg made, Nikon do use a LOT of Sony sensors and do take better images than a Sony camera. This is because as Greg mentioned, they're newer to the game. Nikon has invested a considerable amount of time and money (years and millions) into algorithms designed for cleaning up noise within images, even their RAW. This is one of the big improvements that Nikon has over Sony and also why Nikon in recent years have gone over their 12mp limit that they had up until about 6ish years ago. One of the reasons they have gone over that is because of noise cancellation algorithms.
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Old 04-09-2015, 05:21 PM
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Ouch that hurts a bit Greg

Going through an old thread i see one Greg Bradley said at 27-05-2015, 01:24 PM I agree, a big improvement and high grade image.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=135172
post number 10...

I've got to say though i haven't used the a7s much yet but with my limited use with it i wasn't too impressed with the raw files. it makes jpgs look nice and smooth but i don't know if i'm used to processing canon raw and not sony files but there seemed to be more depth in the canon files. I need to get back out there and give the sony more of a go, weather has been shocking.

the other reason i suggested the 600d is that there is an upgrade path through central ds, if down the track you want to modify it http://www.centralds.net/cam/?produc...-600d-ii-pro-3
you can get superb cooling and even mono modification.

also worth keeping in mind the OP was mentioning entry level cameras not the higher end stuff or full frame cameras some of these older ones like the 600d are so cheap now.. got to say though those WRGB sensors look very very interesting! i always enjoy reading what you have to say on sensors especially the sony stuff Greg!
That's funny Russell. Let me clarify, I am not an expert on which Canon model works best at Astro at all and it was a bit of a stab at what I recall seeing. I missed one! So there may well be some excellent 600D images! It may seem prehistoric but the 350D is still pretty hard to beat and I have seen lots of nice 1100D images. Modded 5D2 is still an amazing imaging machine, modified 6D no doubt more so.

But the trend of smaller pixels and higher MP count may hurt astro work at some point. At least initially as the mp race sometimes left low ISO noise in a worse state.

Most modern cameras of any make have pretty good low noise at high ISO these days. Some are just better than others.

Greg.
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