Astronomy newbie which scope to buy?

[DrNackz (Duncan)]

Hi all,

I'm new here and relatively new to astronomy. I've decided to take the plunge and buy a telescope.

I became moderately interested in astronomy after going to an observatory in NZ which was amazing plus seeing non-polluted skies (by that I mean both gaseous and light) in Vanuatu. I've been delaying buying anything for quite a while but now my kids are also starting to get interested...

Anyway, I've read many guides and everytime I think yep I've decided, I will read another guide and get confused again. So my question is which scopes should I consider?

I live in the suburbs so viewing would mostly be in the backyard though there are some parks nearby that would be good too. I'm interested in looking at the moon and planets first of all (which is the kids interest) but also nebulae and galaxies. I do have some good views from the second story of my house so something that can be used for landscapes would be a plus.

Astrophotography seems like something I would to get into but its less of a consideration at the moment

My budget is up to $600 but somewhere around $400 would be better depending on whats available.

Additionally, can anyone recommend where to buy from? - I'm in the Melbourne area but happy to order online and I would rather buy new, I'm not really interested in 2nd hand.

Thanks all in advance

[LostInSp_ce]

Hi Duncan, and welcome to IIS. You did mention that you're not interested in second hand but looking at your budget I would suggest that maybe you reconsider. The reason why is that you could get some serious bang for buck in that price range. I understand that with second hand you need to know what to look for and as a beginner this may be difficult. However there are a lot of great people on here that would be able to help you with what signs to look for when purchasing used equipment.

The other benefit is that you may be able to get something that will cover both visual and photographic at the entry level killing two birds with one stone. It might save you some money in the long run. Have a look at the IceTrade Classifieds section in this forum to see what I mean.

However if you must go new then I would suggest going with something like an 8 inch Dobsonian (without GoTo). This would be my choice as a beginner if my main use is to be viewing from the backyard. It's within your budget, it's portable enough, can view most things and is easy to setup/use especially for kids. The purpose of this scope is for viewing only and not imaging.

As for comparisons with other types of scopes, I'll let the more experienced on here advise you on their differences.

Happy hunting.

[Wavytone]

Originally Posted by DrNackz

My budget is up to $600 but somewhere around $400 ... where to buy from?

Where to buy from: On your budget - better consider secondhand so take a look at http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9 Lots of nice gear comes up if you are patient. Do your homework and be ready to pounce, bargains go fast. Other sources to be aware of are www.astromart.com and www.cloudynights.com, I've bought from Astromart several times, but not CN.

As for astrophotography... add a nought to your budget, maybe two. Better to take a peek at images others have taken, for free. The reason is there are an awful lot of people banging away taking snaps with better gear than you (or me) can afford, and who have the time to travel to dark locations or better, have their own observatory. It saves you a heck of a lot of time and effort, when you begin to know what is involved to do it well !

Also take a look at https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html for inspiration. A few IIS members have had images published there.

Then there's Sky & Telescope magazine. One, maybe two here, have been published by S&T.

[gaseous (Patrick)]

Welcome Duncan,

As Lost in Space and Wavy have mentioned, a budget of $400-$600 will not stretch a long way, and a second hand scope may be the way to kick start things. Your location says "city" so any chance of seeing fainter objects (galaxies and nebulae) from a backyard/city location will be reliant on getting as large an aperture as your budget will allow, so the 8" dob is a great idea. You can probably source 8"collapsible dobs for around $600 and solid tube dobs for around $500, both new, and used dobs come up fairly regularly in the classifieds. For your budget you may stretch to a 10" or 12" second hand dob if you're lucky, but at that size they can get a little cumbersome to lug out at a moment's notice. As for the astrophotography, you may get a decent shot of the moon (and not much else) through an 8" dob, but to produce the kinds of fantastic images a lot of the people on IIS can achieve, you're looking at many thousands of dollars worth of gear, a different scope/mount, and a pretty intense learning curve - I'd suggest start off with the visual stuff and then you can decide to move into the dark arts of imaging as your enthusiasm/expertise/budget dictates. Good luck!

[croweater (Richard)]

Hi Duncan. As others have mentioned a 8" dob is probably your best bet. If you want new Bintel have the solid tube " BT202" for $600 or the Skywatcher collapsible 8" for $650 (which has a bonus eyepiece set thrown in at the moment). Both have all you need to get started and are reasonable quality. These are great value. A 8" can keep you happy for years. Cheers Richard

[gaa_ian (Ian)]

Ditto on the 8" Dob, we have them too & most who get an 8" scope are satisfied with it for many years!

[Tasastro (Bill)]

I would recommend a Skywatcher AZ4 mount for a start, with either a short tube refractor of 80 - 90 mm or a Celestron C90. My AZ4 is the most used mount I have and I really wish it was the first one I bought. It can be set up in minutes and handles my Astro Physics 100mm refractor very well. Movement in both axes is beautifully smooth and pointing is natural and very quick. There is no need for fiddly slow motion controls.

Dobsonians are superb in their niche but in my opinion are unsuitable for a rank beginner. The AZ4 is easy and fast to set up even on uneven ground, easy to transport, can handle a wide range of OTA's, is useable for other than astronomy, such as terrestrial viewing, relatively easy to aim - even without a finder scope, and packs into a small space when not being used. Dobsonians are cumbersome and slow to set up requiring a smooth flat and level surface, will require collimation - which can be a frustrating task for the unassisted beginner, can be difficult to use because pointing is not natural and the finders fitted to the cheaper versions are a pain in the neck (literally) - just getting the finder pointing to the same place as the scope is extremely frustrating for the beginner, cannot be used for other than astronomy, and take up a great deal of space in the house when not being used. One good thing though is that there are often cheap second hand ones on sale (by disappointed beginners?) so you can always pick one up later if you want more aperture.

There is a package on that auction site of a Celestron C90 with Explore Scientific Alt-Az mount and extra eyepiece for under $600, however in my opinion the AZ4 is much better. The AZ4 with aluminium tripod is available online from Europe, mine cost $270 delivered; steel tripod version (which is a bit stiffer and heavier) costs $350 delivered from Europe and about $420 from Australian sellers. Second hand ones are scarce, which testifies to their quality. Depending on your choice of OTA your budget might be exceeded but you will have a versatile setup with good resale value if you decide not to go further.

[dannat (Daniel)]

youll get much more value secondhand, if you want to buy new in melbourne try astronomyalive

[geolindon (Lindon)]

G day Duncan,

plus 1 for an 8" dob
my experience has been very different to Bill's.

also see here for dobson photography http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=156183

may i suggest this thread be 'sticky' as too often newbies are told dobs can't do AP

or for more see sn1987a's current posts - Barry has monster scopes but his technique can be used on 8" for great hapi snaps or vids.

Regards, L

[Nebulous (Chris)]

Hi Duncan,

I’ve been into this hobby for three whole weeks, so my advice may not be the most reliable! But I did just go through the same questioning as you and I now have a little experience to tell me if I got it right or wrong.

When this question is asked on forums the 8" Dobsonian regularly seems to top the poll. They certainly offer very good bang for your buck. You wouldn't be going far wrong. However, I would still second Bill's (Tasastro) recommendations of an Altitude/Azimuth mount with a refractor telescope. They can be a good choice too.

As he says, they are very easy to set up - you simply unfold the tripod, point and look. No special setup required. Anything with an Equatorial mount will require time consuming fiddling about and re-aligning every time it's moved, and even the very simple Dobsonian mount needs to be set firmly on flat level ground and they have quite a large diameter. One of the big enemies of the amateur astronomer is any kind of wobble and vibration. It’s also likely that you might need to collimate a Dobsonian (adjust and recalibrate) which requires learning some new skills.

No matter how much you spend (within reason) you are really only likely to be looking at increasingly large clumps of white dots. You won't be seeing Cassini diving through Saturn's rings or very much in the way of fine detail on anything except the moon. An important aspect of the hobby is the reading and study required to fire up your imagination and bring those white dots to life.

A simple refractor from the Skywatcher range might be worth checking out too. Many have the added advantage that they can also be used for terrestrial viewing, so when the kids get bored with the stars they might still find other uses for it back on earth. Most astronomy telescopes invert the images - when looking at star clusters it doesn’t matter whether they’re upside down or not.

Whatever you go for will provide some successes and some relative disappointments, so don’t be too worried about getting it exactly right. Most scopes can pick up Jupiter’s moons and some version of Saturn’s rings, but they will be very small scale compared to the photos we’ve all seen. There’s always next year and your next bigger and better scope if the bug bites!

Good luck with your choice.

Cheers,

Chris

[The Mekon (John Briggs)]

Chris, your post above contains good advice. An 8" Dob is not for everyone. And I have been into astronomy for 51 years.
Duncan, I also suggest a small refractor on an alt/az mount. Bintel have the 102mm skywatcher for around $450 if you must buy new.
You can use this from your second story for daytime views, and it will show all the bright night objects reasonably well.

[Nab (Darren)]

I suggest the first choice of scope might very much depend on the levels of light pollution at each persons home location.

I live in an outer suburb of a regional town (Ballarat). On good nights LMC/SMC, Carina Neb, 47 Tuc etc etc are all naked eye objects.. When we go 'home' to the city (Brisbane) you see nothing of this..

I started with an 8" Dob when I returned to the hobby, but have since acquired an 81mm refractor.. both are deeply satisfying.. BUT even in my much-better-than-the city-skys I probably would have been less than impressed in the 3" refractor had been my first new scope and might have been less inspired to dive more into the hobby. Light grasp on showcase objects can't be underestimated when you are not experienced enough to chase the feint and obscure, and have not learned to appreciate the beauty of doubles and the subtlety of colour an APO will give you..

Since the OP says he lived in the city suburbs.. I've vote for light grasp.
Once he is hooked .. then look to expand into various interests and tastes..

Cheers.

Darren.

[Benjamin (Ben)]

The best scope is the one you'll use. An 8" Dob was exactly right for me as I was desperate to see all the amazing things in the sky (particularly nebulae) and could see nearly everything through it. All the Messier objects (galaxies, nebulae, Globular and open clusters) that can be seen from Southern skies can be found easily enough and the 3 planets that show any detail (excluding earth) are great. Of course the moon is also a treat. I had fun learning to collimate the Dob (with some frustrations too) and quickly upgraded bits and pieces. Having a nice observing chair is rather important I think.

On the other hand my 6 year old daughter (who likes to look at the moon, Jupiter or Saturn for 20 seconds) likes refractors on an AZ mount as I can adjust the mount to be at her height and get it out in the yard without any cool down time in a minute before she heads to bed. I can still find most objects with these smaller refractors but not with a great amount of detail. There are cheaper short tube (ST) achromat refractors within your budget that are very easy to use but they do show lots of purple fringing around bright objects (moon, Jupiter for instance). A filter can help this. It may be also not be a problem for you. Also these are okay for terrestrial viewing.

This is just my story though and the 2/H 8" Dob I bought for $350 a few years back was just my scope, for my own selfish pursuits. I didn't want to spend too much in case I ended up hating it, but for me it all turned out well. That the kid looks through a telescope is a bonus and if I was really buying one for her I'd probably just get a little tabletop reflector.

Perhaps the best advice is to go to a star party or local astronomy group viewing and see what they have and have a look for yourself. Often the best view is not even through a telescope but either naked eye or through binoculars at a dark sky site. The most profound experience my daughter has had with astronomy was being under a very dark sky watching for meteors. Just cost some petrol money :-)

[DrNackz (Duncan)]

Just to update, I bought a skywatcher 120/600 the weather hasn't been great for stargazing but terrestrial viewing is excellent. In a brief break in the clouds I was able to swing skywards - to be honest I don't know yet which star I was looking at but there were plenty around that I couldn't see by eye.

Setup was easy so I'm happy - just need some clear skies now!

[Benjamin (Ben)]

A nice scope at lower magnifications for taking in the sky I reckon :-) I would have a go at finding Eta Carina one night. It's not far from the Southern Cross and that region is full of wonderful star fields so doesn't really matter if you don't find it! Of course Jupiter and the Moon are great right now. If you haven't already download Stellarium and zoom in on Jupiter to see if there is a moon transiting across its surface or if the red spot is visible :-)

[geolindon (Lindon)]

congratulations on the new 'scope Duncan

[DrNackz (Duncan)]

Actually the skies cleared briefly a couple of hours ago and I managed some nice views of Saturn

[LostInSp_ce]

I never get tired of seeing Saturn. Congratulations on getting your new scope. As someone here has already mentioned the best scope is the one that you'll use the most.

Happy viewing.

[sil (Steve)]

enjoy the scope and the sky! make sure you took/take the time to adjust the finderscope to the eyepiece as accurate as possible. when you start trying to find particular targets you end up doing a lot of star hopping. so a well aligned finderscope will get you to an identifiable starting point. nothing worse than star hopping from a star you misidentified. getting to know a few constellations across the sky around the year always help to orient yourself and give you good starting point options for star hopping. Of coursemake sure you know which way in the eyepiece is up/down/left/right as it can be tricky at first. I used to put a small piece of masking tape on top of my visual scope near the eyepiece with UDLR labelled so I always had that as a reference for direction if i needed. The southern cross you should be familiar with but if you take a close look at the brightest stars you may be able to see several are actually double stars! Also the leftmost star in the cross, just left of it and down a little is The Jewelbox cluster. Clusters will be nice and bright for your scope and there are plenty to track down in the sky