Speaker wire diameter and performance

[Steffen]

While I generally agree with the sentiment that speaker wire is a much over discussed topic and a lot of money is wasted on pretty cables, let's not overcompensate. Keep in mind that 10m of 240V lamp cord (0.75mm^2) has about 0.5 Ohms resistance, so for longer cable runs (like 10m) it's not negligible. Almost all of the cheap speaker zip cord is much beefier, though, and therefore nothing to worry about. The weakest link in speaker hook-ups are usually the connectors. Make sure you get them right.

Cheers
Steffen.

[leon]

Quite an interesting amount of responses, thank you, it is all hooked up now and i have to admit it sounds Awesome.

Thanks again.

Leon

[Baddad (Marty)]

Hi Leon,
I'm glad that you are happy with your effort.
The task can appear daunting until you tackle it, whereupon you think back and wonder what the difficulty was.

Cheers

[RB (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by leon

Quite an interesting amount of responses, thank you, it is all hooked up now and i have to admit it sounds Awesome.

Thanks again.

Leon

You ended up using headphones didn't ya?

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Originally Posted by Steffen

While I generally agree with the sentiment that speaker wire is a much over discussed topic and a lot of money is wasted on pretty cables, let's not overcompensate. Keep in mind that 10m of 240V lamp cord (0.75mm^2) has about 0.5 Ohms resistance, so for longer cable runs (like 10m) it's not negligible. Almost all of the cheap speaker zip cord is much beefier, though, and therefore nothing to worry about. The weakest link in speaker hook-ups are usually the connectors. Make sure you get them right.

Cheers
Steffen.

and that much series resistance can have a noticeable effect on the resonance (Q and f) of a low impedance speaker, which can be a problem if the box also has a tuned vent that the speaker couples to - it can change the sound of a system even though the loss of power might not be a problem. Agree that OFC and such is marketing hype, but there is still a case for keeping the cable resistance low if the speaker has been designed for low series resistance.

[blink138 (Pat)]

Originally Posted by Barrykgerdes

Hi Leon

Forget about all the hype about amplifiers and speakers that is only sales talk to confuse the gullible audiophiles so that they will spend lots of money to boost their egos.

The practicality of speaker wire size is irrelevant for most people. The current amplifiers have low impedance outputs into low impedance speakers so the transfer of power is governed by I x I x R . All this means that the power from the amplifier will be divided between the speaker and the feed line in the ratio of R/R. This may be important if you have a 1000 watt amplifier but will not be noticed by most users. The lower the R (larger the wire size) of the speaker cable the more power will be delivered to the speaker.

So if you follow what White Rabbit says you can't go wrong.

Barry

sorry barry for picking up on your remarks as yours was one of many,.... hmm unusual views!
let me say firstly that in our mate leons case it matters not so much on the thickness or cable used, however the hypocrisy of vilifying the views of hi fi nuts from astro nuts.... well i am both!
would you sell a 13mm ethos because the view of a meade plossl 32mm (sorry i have not done the maths, but i hope you see the analogy!) gave the same field?
in the 1980's i spent more than my weeks wages on some "monster cable" for my "modest system"
our ears are so much like our eyes ha ha!, anyhow that money was so well spent as i know the difference to my ears was astronomic and well worth the money
the difference, if anybody is interested was the top end of my loud speakers were much sharper and less brittle and the bottom end was so much tighter........... the musical experience for me was heightened exponentially, very similar emotionally to my first ethos!
pat

[CJ (Chris)]

I'm with you Pat. I've heard it with my own ears!

[AndrewJ]

Gday Pat

Whilst specialised cables may provide a better "experience" in some systems, for bog std "surround sound" solid state systems with crappy mass produced speakers, it wont add much.
I remember a good discussion on the use of litz wire to enhance the higher freq transmission, then someone else responded that the really flexible wire from their arc welder sounded just as good and was one tenth the price.

As noted earlier, if the cable really affects the system ( based mainly on the amplifiers damping factor and speaker/cable reactance ), then the cable needs to be designed into the "system", not just bought as an after thought and plugged in.
There is certainly a lot of science behind it, but most is covered in a liberal dose of commercial snake oil :-)

Andrew

[blink138 (Pat)]

yes andrew that is why i said for leons purposes it would make little difference, however some people saying, ridiculously, that even amplifiers (never mind cables) make no difference and are designed by a salesman to relieve an unsuspecting person of their monies is frankly silly
pat

[MrB (Simon)]

It's an argument that has raged for decades and even tho blind test after blind test proves there's nothing to it, 'audiophiles' with golden ears keep claiming they can hear the difference.
If they're happy, more power to them.
http://gizmodo.com/363154/audiophile...-a-coat-hanger

[AndrewJ]

Gday Pat

designed by a salesman to relieve an unsuspecting person of their monies is frankly silly

Dunno there ( thats why god created suckers )
Things like the advertising waffle for the
http://www.audionote.co.jp/en/produc...er/ongaku.html
make you wonder at times ( and its only $100K or so )
ie transformers wound by virgin elves using pure silver wire to reduce vibrations
and "genuine" WesternElectric 300B valves, etc etc
Its a bit like Meades over enthsiastic advertising at times
ie sales dept knows best.
Again, its all down to a system design, and most modern consumer stuff is designed to put out "acceptable" sound no matter how its connected.
I note Barry stated
"The practicality of speaker wire size is irrelevant for most people."
and in that respect, i have to agree with him
( but i do use monster cables to my home built 3 ways ,
which do sound rather nice )

Andrew

[AndrewJ]

Gday Pat

And after a bit more digging for Audionote stuff, i found this
http://www.audionote.co.uk/comp/cables.shtml
Notwithstanding the "sales jargon"
have a squizz at the prices for the Sogon and Sootto
cable ( is Litz(Don), is good ) and interconnects
2000 to 4500 british pounds per metre??????????????????????
Some of it is just plain unadulterated crap.

Andrew

[tempestwizz (Brian)]

I am a believer. for high quality speaker cable. Although, in my opinion oxygen free is purely marketing hype. The purpose of good quality, low impedance cable is to transfer the driving and damping effect of the output stage of the amplifier to the speakers. While 0.5 ohms or less doesn't sound much, in reality, the instantaneous (very short term) currents are in the order of thousands of amperes. The more the loss in cable, the 'muddier' the sound from your system. Yes, you have a noise that sort of sounds ok, but you waste the quality of both amplifier and speaker system. It's a matterof how far you wish to compromise.

Just my 2p worth!

[GrampianStars (Rob)]

[QUOTE=tempestwizz;1096877]I am a believer. ...... in reality, the instantaneous (very short term) currents are in the order of thousands of amperes. ......
Ahmm ! NOT possible....

240 Volts x 1000 Amps = 240,000 Watts of power
Can't be done with domestic amplifiers.

Leon here's a guide for your assistance
any domestic brand of 12 gauge (around 2.00mm) or 10 gauge (around 3.00mm) is suitable for your needs

http://www.electronixwarehouse.com/i...ge-chart-1.jpg

[rat156]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Things like the advertising waffle for the
http://www.audionote.co.jp/en/produc...er/ongaku.html
make you wonder at times ( and its only $100K or so )
ie transformers wound by virgin elves using pure silver wire to reduce vibrations
and "genuine" WesternElectric 300B valves, etc etc

Andrew

Waddya mean Andrew? I own one of those...

Nah, just kidding, I have two, they told me I needed one for each channel, I'm saving up for the other 5.1 for the rest of my surround sound system...

Do you mean to tell me that the Elves weren't virgins? How do you know??

Surely the valves are genuine, not fake, don't tell me there's just a BFO power transistor underneath with a piece of filament wire inside?

You just can't trust those marketing types can you?

Cheers
Stuart

[AndrewJ]

Gday Stu

Waddya mean Andrew? I own one of those...

Better lock yr doors then

Surely the valves are genuine, not fake, don't tell me there's just a BFO power transistor underneath

This topic can create more opinions than cable or interconnects
The valves may be "real" but not "genuine"
ref the following for one example
http://www.stereophile.com/content/s...0b-tube-page-4
I mentioned the WE 300B as that was one of the uber classic valves used to get true "Audiophile sound" in the 80s when i was mucking around with speakers etc, and its been heavily copied since.
Matched "genuine" WE tubes could sell for more than $1000 then, as they "sounded" better than the later "copies".
( i thought it was all down to the speaker cable ???????? )
It really is an industry of smoke and mirrors, and like astronomy, if you want to ( subjectively ) grasp that last little bit of extra performance, you may need a large wallet, but you also need to mix and match parts as a properly designed system, not just bits bought at random.

Sooooo, if you do go to Europe for a few years,
can i baby sit yr amp????

Andrew

[rat156]

you still didn't tell me how you knew the Elves weren't virgins...

Cheers
Stu

[AndrewJ]

Gday Stu

It was in the advertising

Andrew

[leon]

And so it goes on, no Andrew, no headphones, it just works to what i would expect, i am very pleased.

Leon

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

In the same vein, can someone tell me why red cars go faster?