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Old 22-01-2010, 12:55 PM
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A review of the Nissin Di866 Professional flash

I was after a replacement for my Canon 580EX II Speedlite and came across the Nissin Di866 Professional. Reading the specs, it appeared to be very similar to the 580EX II at around half the cost. My usual practice is to search POTN for reviews or comments about equipment before I buy, but not much turned up on this flash there or my other usual haunts on the web. I decided to purchase it regardless and thought I'd post a review here, hoping it will help others in future.

It comes in both Canon and Nikon models. Since it most closely aligns with the Canon 580EX II for me as a Canon user, I'll compare features between the two and use the 580EX II as a sort of benchmark.

The Di866 is 134x74x110mm and weighs 380g, while the 580EXII is 134x76x114mm and weighs 375g. Weights are without batteries. Very close match.

In the box is the flash, a soft case, a stand with tripod screw, a fold-out sheet with quick instructions (as opposed to the small book you get with the 580EXII), and a CD-ROM presumably with a detailed manual and software for firmware updates (not sure, haven't looked yet, haven't needed to).

The build quality is surprisingly good. I wouldn't say it's as good as the 580EXII, but might come close to the 430EX. The hot-shoe foot is plastic, not metal like the 580EXII, but everything feels sturdy and don't really have any concerns.

Here's the main features I lifted from each manufacturers' website. Not sure if I'll get a chance to test all of them.

Things it does that the 580EX II does:
- Similar Guide Number, advertised as 60m/198ft at ISO100 & 105mm (580EXII GN is 58m same settings);
- E-TTL II compatible;
- Manual power from 1/1 down to 1/128 in 1/3 steps;
- Auto zoom control;
- AF Assist beam;
- Flash Exposure Lock;
- Flash Exposure Bracketing;
- High speed sync;
- Rear curtain sync;
- Head rotation 90 degrees for bounce, 180 degrees swivel;
- Wireless remote master and slave capability, compatible with Canon's system;
- Stroboscopic flash output from 1/8 to 1/128 power at 90Hz (580EXII can go from 1/4 to 1/128 power at frequency range 1-199Hz). I probably won't test this. I've never used this feature on any flash before.;
- External power pack socket;
- PC socket;
- Built-in catch-light reflector and wide screen panel; and
- 4xAA batteries.

Things it does that the 580EX II doesn't do:
- Sub-flash provides some fill light while bouncing the main flash. It's supposedly 12m ISO100 according to one site I read;
- Auto exposure mode;
- Firmware can be updated via USB connection; and
- You can calibrate the TTL settings.

Things it doesn't do that the 580EX II does:
- Dust and water resistant body; and
- Metal quick lock and release foot (the Di866 has a plastic foot and is similar to the 430EX one).

I found the colour LCD menu simple to navigate. By that, I mean I'm not always the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I didn't need to refer to the manual at all to navigate around the menu and figure out how to do everything. The display automatically rotates if you have the flash horizontal instead of vertical.

The above are just my initial impressions and observations. I intend to do some testing on the weekend and will post results and piccies then. Some of the tests I intend to do are:

- compare full power output with the 580EXII. I don't have a lightmeter, so this is about all I can think of.
- test the master and slave reliability
- test the max sync speed
- have a look at the effects of the subflash
- compare the zoom spreads to the 580EXII
- see if 580EXII accessories, like better beamer, fit
- compare recycle times with the 580EXII

Last edited by troypiggo; 22-01-2010 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 22-01-2010, 12:56 PM
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Ok, so I did some testing today but ran out of time for anything comprehensive.

The master/slave worked well in combination with the 580EXII. Just as good as the 580EXII/430EX combination. I guess the same rules would apply that it'd be a bit hit and miss outdoors in direct sunlight, and you need direct line of sight between the master and slave.

The max sync speed was around 1/250s with my 40D and CyberSyncs. I can get around 1/320s with the 580EXII.

I don't have any photos to share with the sub-flash, but it certainly does help fill in shadows when using the bounce flash. The sub-flash can be set from 1/1 down to 1/32 power.

Recycle times were definitely a little slower than the 580EXII. I'd say the 580EXII was recycling from a full power burst around 1/2 to 2/3 the time of the Di866.

At this stage I've yet to test the full power output comparison. Not sure of the most elegant way to do this without a lightmeter.

Conclusion:

Fantastic value - you get nearly all the features of the 580EXII at just over half the cost. Sync speed and recycle times are a little slower than the 580EXII, and the build quality is good but not quite the same. Overall I'm pretty happy with it and would definitely recommend it. I'll be keeping it instead of buying another 580EXII.

Last edited by troypiggo; 23-01-2010 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 22-01-2010, 01:30 PM
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Thanks Troy, I've been thinking of getting a second flashgun, this sounds pretty good.

How much are they and where did you get your's from?
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Old 22-01-2010, 01:30 PM
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Troy,

Looking forward to seeing the results. A very interesting comparison indeed. I have seen these for sale and it may be time to upgrade my 420EX.

Frank
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Old 22-01-2010, 01:50 PM
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Great review Troy. Any indication how many operations you get from a fully charged pair of batteries?
cheers
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Old 22-01-2010, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RB View Post
Thanks Troy, I've been thinking of getting a second flashgun, this sounds pretty good.

How much are they and where did you get your's from?
I got mine from Adorama in the US. They're currently US$269 as compared to US$445 for the 580EXII. No idea if they're readily available is Aus yet. Think they're pretty new.

I'll be using mine with remote triggers so wanted the PC connection and wanted the power. Depending on what you intend to use yours for, there could well be a better match even cheaper again. What are you after?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lacad01 View Post
Great review Troy. Any indication how many operations you get from a fully charged pair of batteries?
cheers
Sorry, haven't done enough testing to figure that out yet. I'll see how I go this weekend.
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Old 22-01-2010, 06:11 PM
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I have a Di-866 as well, bought mine from honkers (ebay seller HKBNS) for AU$299 express posted. Ordered and paid on a Tuesday it was here on Friday (3 Days).

Despite having it for a couple of months I'm yet to give it a thorough workout.

What I've tried so far.

The master/slave function works well, triggers my 580EX as a slave and vice versa.

I agree that the menuing system is much more user friendly than the Canon item, the only downside is that the settings aren't adjustable from the camera menu on those cameras that support it (no big deal as the menuing is very good on the Nissin).

Initially I thought the secondary fill flash wasn't working, however it just doesn't fire in test mode, the secondary fill flash is also variable power.

When zooming the Nissin sounds more truck like compared with the canon, it's quite a bit more noisy.

It looks as though the Canon external battery pack will work on the Nissin as well.
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Old 22-01-2010, 09:45 PM
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Thanks for the feedback, Phil. All sounds good.
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Old 23-01-2010, 05:12 PM
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Did some testing and added conclusion to post #2 above.
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:39 AM
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Just thought I'd follow up on this review and flash info. The testing I did above was on my 40D. Recently I purchased a 5DII. Been having some minor trouble with this flash on that camera in ETTL mode only. Manual flash works fine and I use that more and more these days, but the results in ETTL mode are all over the place, sometimes overexposing, sometimes under.

Note that it's performance has been flawless on my 40D.

There was some recent posts on POTN in my review thread there, and it seems Nissin need to update the firmware on the earlier batches of this flash to become fully compatible with the 5DII. Not sure about other recent models like the 7D etc.

Note that it seems the newer batches of this flash are fully compatible with the 5DII. See below for serial no's that are and aren't compatible. I bought mine pretty early on and have one of the earlier batches.

It's interesting and a bit disappointing. While they advertise that the flash firmware is updateable via USB, I searched for ages on their website to find how and where to download a firmware update for my flash. There isn't a link anywhere. Then in my POTN thread someone posted this correspondence with Nissin. It seems that if you've got a newer one, you have no problems. If you have the older version, you need a firmware update but they currently don't have the facilities on their website to enable you to download one, so they'll replace your flash with a newer one. Check your serial number if you think you're affected.

Quote:
Dear Paul,

Thank you for email again.

Actually we’ve done the firmware but waiting for downloading program from
Japan side to finish. Frankly tell, we are not able to confirm the releasing
date at this moment.
To avoid too long waiting for Nissin value customers. We decided to do the
exchange for first lot of Di866 until we are able to release the firmware by
USB update.

The firmware is free of charge and you can download it from our website once
released. But we are not able to provide the instruction since it is not yet
done at this moment.

If you already bought, please kindly contact with our distributor in your
country by following link for exchange a new one.
http://www.nissindigital.com/en/distributors.html

Thank you very much.
Nissin
www.nissindigital.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Vincent Pua
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:31 PM
To: Nissin Marketing Ltd
Subject: RE: Inquiry

My S/N is 9A14 .....

can you send me the software / firmware and directions to upgrade my flash?


thanks,
Paul


--- On Tue, 5/25/10, Nissin Marketing Ltd <info@nissin.com.hk> wrote:

> From: Nissin Marketing Ltd <info@nissin.com.hk>
> Subject: RE: Inquiry
> To: "'Paul Vincent Pua'"
> Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 3:36 PM
> Dear Paul Vincent Pua,
>
> Thank you for email and purchasing Nissin Di866.
>
> Could you please kindly advise the S/N of your flash. If
> the S/N after
> 9A2031001 is fully support 5D Mark II.
>
> The Di866 do has thermal cut off (after continuous full
> power flash
> 25~30times, it will start the protection )to prevent damage
> when it
> overheats.
> It will shut down 10-15pcs to cool down before it can be
> used again.
> And of course it sometimes depends on how heat of the
> flash, more heat, it
> takes longer time to cool down.
>
> Thank you very much.
> Nissin
> www.nissindigital.com
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Vincent Pua
>
> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 2:52 PM
> To: info@nissin.com.hk
> Subject: Inquiry
>
> Hi,
>
> I live here at the philippines and I got a nissin di 866,
> it seems that my canon 5d mark 2 doest recognize the
> flash.. I got into the
> menu of the 5d mark 2 on flash custom functions. It doesn't
> recognize the
> 866.
>
> I would like to ask if there is any firmware update or is
> it not really
> working... ?
>
>
> I bought it at JT photo located in makati.
>
>
> BTW, the 866 seems to over heat fast even just using 4
> ni-mh batteries and
> no power pack. any suggestions? - It seems I'm not the only
> one exp this
> issue as a quick search using google/yahoo with keywords
> nissin di 866 and
> overheat gives a lot of hits... perhaps the threshold of
> the temparature is
> set too low?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul Vincent Pua
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Old 02-07-2010, 06:09 AM
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Thanks
so it should work fine for a 20Da then presumably?
frank
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:01 AM
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re Nissan Flash

Thanks Troy for the review,certainly interesting to see,as I will be looking at buying the 580 EX II soon,I have the 430 EX canon flash,I planned to buy the larger canon one first and the the smaller one as a slave,but got the 430 at a good price on ice.

Dennis,recently bought the 580 EX II so I will have a good look at it,certainly the Nissan one sounds quite good at that price,I will be interested to hear how it goes for you on your 5D.I have the 50D.

There was a bit of discussion about non camera timer remotes not long ago on ice,so its good to see some discussion on other 'look a like' gear.I too,could'nt find many reviews on the flash you got Troy.One lady on a glam photography site told she bought the flash you just got and said it was quite good.

Not sure which one I will get,although-I am more likely to get the Canon 580 EX II at this stage.

Chris
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:30 AM
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I was playing with my recently acquired 580EXII last night and it's an awesome bit of kit, though it does chew through the alkalines.
The extra functions that this thing can do are amazing compared to the old flashes I've used before!

Cheers,
Jason.
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Old 02-07-2010, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spearo View Post
Thanks
so it should work fine for a 20Da then presumably?
frank
I haven't tried it on a 20D, but I have used it on a 30D and 40D and it's fully functional. It appears the older cameras are fine, just the newer ones need a bit of a firmware update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotspur View Post
Thanks Troy for the review,certainly interesting to see,as I will be looking at buying the 580 EX II soon,I have the 430 EX canon flash,I planned to buy the larger canon one first and the the smaller one as a slave,but got the 430 at a good price on ice.

Dennis,recently bought the 580 EX II so I will have a good look at it,certainly the Nissan one sounds quite good at that price,I will be interested to hear how it goes for you on your 5D.I have the 50D.

There was a bit of discussion about non camera timer remotes not long ago on ice,so its good to see some discussion on other 'look a like' gear.I too,could'nt find many reviews on the flash you got Troy.One lady on a glam photography site told she bought the flash you just got and said it was quite good.

Not sure which one I will get,although-I am more likely to get the Canon 580 EX II at this stage.

Chris
The 580EXII is a wonderful flash. Probably considered the industry standard for Canon users. Reason I mentioned this Nissin is that the features are comparable, the power is comparable, but the price is significantly better.

Don't confuse this flash as a cheap eBay knock-off of a genuine Canon flash. It's not that at all. It's a completely different flash unit. That's not to say it's better or worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by koputai View Post
I was playing with my recently acquired 580EXII last night and it's an awesome bit of kit, though it does chew through the alkalines.
The extra functions that this thing can do are amazing compared to the old flashes I've used before!

Cheers,
Jason.
Agreed. It's a wonderful flash.
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Old 02-07-2010, 04:06 PM
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Troy, thanks for the heads up, like yours mine is an early version.

I've emailed the Australian distributor to see if they will supply a replacement.

Given the amount of time the 866 has been available I'm starting to doubt that the USB firmware update facility will ever be available.
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Old 02-07-2010, 04:17 PM
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No worries, Phil.

I phoned that Aussie distributor at lunchtime today about it. He said they don't replace the flash. What you do is mail them your flash and they do the firmware update for you and send it back.

I asked why can't they just email me the update, I can connect the USB etc and update it myself, save postage. He said it's very complicated, there's about 3 different firmwares and if you don't do it right you can stuff the whole thing. They have an in-house tech who can easily do it because he knows what he's doing.

I said they should remove "firmware update-able via USB" from their advertising jingle because it's misleading, nay false advertising.
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Old 02-07-2010, 06:00 PM
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Or just mention that it's updateable only by their tech guys.

H
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Old 02-07-2010, 06:01 PM
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re flash

Sorry Troy-I did'nt mean the infrence to appear your fine flash was a cheap knock off,far from it-the term 'look a like' product is given to a
high standard of product similar to a known leading product in a particular field.So I apologize if you thought otherwise.

I think your review is very useful and helpful,but this time round I have firmly decided to buy the 580 EX II,for the main reason I know it will work out of the box and with the 430 EX I currently have.Without having the worry of firmware etc.

On another note,Jason mentions the alkalines his new flash chews through.I wonder how it would work with the 'Eneloop' brand re-chargables,I have these in the point and shoot,these are VERY good batteries-amazing life,I would recomend them very highly.

regards Chris
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Old 02-07-2010, 09:51 PM
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Chris, I bought a set of Jaycar 'Powertech' AA 2500mAh NI-MH rechargeables for it yesterday, and so far they appear to last a lot longer, as well as cycle faster. So far so good.

Cheers,
Jason.
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:54 PM
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Bit of an update on this flash. The firmware update is available from their website now. I hadn't sent the flash off to get updated because I've been using manual mode

Downloaded the setup.exe ....

Hmm, downloaded the firmware update, installed it as per the instructions to the letter, followed the tutorial, got the white screen on the flash LCD display which supposedly indicates it's in download mode, plugged in the USB cable, clicked download, and keep getting "download failed" error messages.

When I had plugged the flash into the USB, I got the usual message about Windows finding new hardware. FIrst time around I just cancellled this, as there was nothing in the tutorial or installation instructions about it. After the above failed error messages, I went through the hardware installation wizard and manually chose the directory that the software had installed to, which was
C:\Program Files\Di866_DM by default. This worked and drivers did install. Second time around the update did work.

Second "gotchya" is that I couldn't figure out how to get the flash out of it's download mode (LCD is white). I just pulled the batteries out and put them back in.

If anyone has the correct way of doing it, please let me know.

That said, the flash now appears to work fine in ETTL mode on my 5DII http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...icon_smile.gif smiles all around. Back on track, still a wonderful, good value flash.
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