Ancient unknown civilizations

[xelasnave]

Thanks for taking the time to contribute Julian.
I did start looking into that recently but got sidetracked so I really appreciate your post as you remind me about that event.
So I will happily look at the links you provided and follow up on all of it during the course of today.
I hope you are well.
Alex

Funny thing...when I left the law firm I worked for a long time ago they had a presentation and all that and gave me two books ..one was "The history of Western Philosophy" and the other which I can not remember the title was on the event referred to above which outlined the idea that the volcanic events etc have rise to the Atlantis myth...I treasured both of those books but unfortunately they were lost, together with everything else I owned in the bushfires in 2002.
I had a rather comprehensive library but lost the lot unfortunately.
Alex

Here is a video worth watching all the way thru as it somewhat offers a view point representative of many folk interested in the prospect of a history that does not have humans in effect coming out of caves approximately 6000 years ago.
It only shows only the top of the iceberg as one could say however for those who find the proposition of our history being possibly different to in effect what we learnt in school this video may serve as something to cause further investigation of the various reasonably valid points raised to support a different approach.
Further the history suggested could make sense of the many flood stories found in most cultures.
https://youtu.be/-w7gzIQAHf0

Alex

Yet another video...but this guy has written a paper and a book so he must be ok..right
Probably would have been a good introduction rather than at the end.https://youtu.be/XcJm2k5QSkAlex

OK we have seen various videos..what can we conclude?
The most curious thing I find is the rock work which I once thought was found only in Peru..it is everywhere and many examples exist where clearly it has been built upon. The reasonable conclusion is that for that rock work to be somewhat world wide there must have been a trade network at least that is beyond our current beliefs.
This certainly strongly suggests a world wide communication such that the incredible rock work is now found world wide.
I think this is our starting point..so we need to analyse what we find before us and come up with plausible explanations to explain this world wide rock work..it is found even on Easter Island ... Where do we go from here what is the next careful step we can take so as to find truth but not fall victim to the various claims we will encounter.
Alex

[JohnF (John)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

OK we have seen various videos..what can we conclude?
The most curious thing I find is the rock work which I once thought was found only in Peru..it is everywhere and many examples exist where clearly it has been built upon. The reasonable conclusion is that for that rock work to be somewhat world wide there must have been a trade network at least that is beyond our current beliefs.
This certainly strongly suggests a world wide communication such that the incredible rock work is now found world wide.
I think this is our starting point..so we need to analyse what we find before us and come up with plausible explanations to explain this world wide rock work..it is found even on Easter Island ... Where do we go from here what is the next careful step we can take so as to find truth but not fall victim to the various claims we will encounter.
Alex

After my first ever post on ICEINSPACE I was told that I was not allowed to post on the Bible yet found in this discussion references to Noah's flood -- Which I believe happened. So not wishing to get banned, I will simply say that off of Japan are remains of a submerged city. Deep Off Peru is is a Man built Pyramid underwater. Underwater in the Mediterranean are found underwater cities, etc. That Atlantis Story is found in many other cultures.

But I believe there is another possible explanation of Atlantis. The Peri Reis map, from the 1500s was a reproduction of Much Older maps. It does show Antartica from when Antartica did not have Ice covering it, showing that Antartica is two large continents with a channel between them. And it shows Rivers, etc., which are now under the Ice. And Antartica has been surveyed showing this is a very accurate map. I would suggest that Atlantis is possibly now under the Ice of Antartica -- But do not insist that is the correct assumption, so feel free to disagree with me.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by JohnF

After my first ever post on ICEINSPACE I was told that I was not allowed to post on the Bible yet found in this discussion references to Noah's flood -- Which I believe happened. So not wishing to get banned, I will simply say that off of Japan are remains of a submerged city. Deep Off Peru is is a Man built Pyramid underwater. Underwater in the Mediterranean are found underwater cities, etc. That Atlantis Story is found in many other cultures.

But I believe there is another possible explanation of Atlantis. The Peri Reis map, from the 1500s was a reproduction of Much Older maps. It does show Antartica from when Antartica did not have Ice covering it, showing that Antartica is two large continents with a channel between them. And it shows Rivers, etc., which are now under the Ice. And Antartica has been surveyed showing this is a very accurate map. I would suggest that Atlantis is possibly now under the Ice of Antartica -- But do not insist that is the correct assumption, so feel free to disagree with me.

The references are to a rise in sea levels due to some intense melting of the ice in North America as argued due to a cosmic impact rather than rain...although I have seen mention that there was a great deal of rain also due to ice being flung up into space...I think the event may certainly have given rise to the multitude of flood stories in many cultures. Sumeria mentions a flood and they were around a bit before the Hebrews who seem to have copied that flood story...So it is indeed hard to discuss these things without noting how the rise in sea levels, if they did indeed occur, found their way as mythical accounts into places like the bible and early Sumerian texts...The Sumerian story is one worth looking into as so much actually came from them..even Adam and the garden appeared there first. And do they have some wild stories of what they called gods flying about...it is hard to grant them such powerful imagination but I find I must come down on the side of..they were great story tellers.
And don't worry about the thread getting closed as that was no doubt more my fault than yours...but I do hope you had time to look at the link that I put up for you.

There are a few sunken cities around the world.
I was reading today that there is a layer of sea silt around the great pyramid so wouldn't that be interesting if it's not just a tale someone made up.

Anyways thanks you for contributing here and if you can add anything say from a sourse other than you know where please present it...mind you for some folk to even think that there could have been a different history is unthinkable but I have found the more you look at what is out there the more one must wonder if we know anything about anything.
Thanks.
Alex

[JohnF (John)]

Originally Posted by dikman

Very interesting. It's sheer co-incidence, of course, that this extinction coincided with the arrival of the aboriginals.


Lately I have been reading such little gems as "the aboriginals have the oldest evolving culture in the world", they practiced controlled burning to manage the land, developed complex aquaculture farming methods etc.


Make of that what you will.......



And yes, of course it was aliens who built the pyramids etc, I thought everyone knew that.

I have a DVD that tells us when Aborigines arrived in Australia they had Iron tools. But if you have no way, or no knowledge of making or repairing your tools when they broke they would be abandon and rust away. That is such technology could easily be lost.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by JohnF

I have a DVD that tells us when Aborigines arrived in Australia they had Iron tools. But if you have no way, or no knowledge of making or repairing your tools when they broke they would be abandon and rust away. That is such technology could easily be lost.

How did they determine that John?

If you think about it you could imagine it easier to start with iron as you could find a meteor whereas copper requires a process..maybe gold ..it is probably the most workable..

Alex

[JohnF (John)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

The references are to a rise in sea levels due to some intense melting of the ice in North America as argued due to a cosmic impact rather than rain...although I have seen mention that there was a great deal of rain also due to ice being flung up into space...I think the event may certainly have given rise to the multitude of flood stories in many cultures. Sumeria mentions a flood and they were around a bit before the Hebrews who seem to have copied that flood story...So it is indeed hard to discuss these things without noting how the rise in sea levels, if they did indeed occur, found their way as mythical accounts into places like the bible and early Sumerian texts...The Sumerian story is one worth looking into as so much actually came from them..even Adam and the garden appeared there first. And do they have some wild stories of what they called gods flying about...it is hard to grant them such powerful imagination but I find I must come down on the side of..they were great story tellers.
And don't worry about the thread getting closed as that was no doubt more my fault than yours...but I do hope you had time to look at the link that I put up for you.

There are a few sunken cities around the world.
I was reading today that there is a layer of sea silt around the great pyramid so wouldn't that be interesting if it's not just a tale someone made up.

Anyways thanks you for contributing here and if you can add anything say from a sourse other than you know where please present it...mind you for some folk to even think that there could have been a different history is unthinkable but I have found the more you look at what is out there the more one must wonder if we know anything about anything.
Thanks.
Alex

Alex if you go to the rocks north of Ballina -- not that far from your location, I 12 km live north of Nimbin -- you will find a fossil beach in this rocks above the present sea level. So Sea levels were higher at one stage in the past. Nothing to do with an Astroid or comet impact.

Originally Posted by xelasnave

How did they determine that John?

If you think about it you could imagine it easier to start with iron as you could find a meteor whereas copper requires a process..maybe gold ..it is probably the most workable..

Alex

Pharaoh Tutankhamen had a couple of knifes in his tomb. A Solid Gold one and an Iron one. The Iron was the More valuably one as Iron was often from Meteors. But on my facebook page I saw a Youtube of smelting Iron with very simple primitive tools.

In South America is very ancient Aluminium sheets lining walls of ancient Buildings. The Only way we can smelt Aluminium today is with enormous amounts of Electricity. So that the Ancients 4000 years ago generate enormous amounts of electricity, or else they had other technologies to smelt Aluminium that modern man has never discovered.

Some ancient races could do that smelting of Iron, while others could not. And Archaeology has found some used Iron much earlier than others.

In India is found a large ancient Iron pillar that will not corrode. We cannot produce such Iron today.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by JohnF

Alex if you go to the rocks north of Ballina -- not that far from your location, I 12 km live north of Nimbin -- you will find a fossil beach in this rocks above the present sea level. So Sea levels were higher at one stage in the past. Nothing to do with an Astroid or comet impact.

Thanks for that information John.

Finding shells etc in rocks above sea level does not necessarily mean that the sea was higher ... the Earth moves around and things are pushed all about so forgive me if I do not accept your evidence as proof of anything at all really.

I expect we both know the arguments for and against Noahs flood I expect you believe in a super natural explanation that the flood was ...well what the story tells you...and I am at a stage where I am still reviewing evidence that supports the hypothesis that the various flood myths common to many cultures came from a comet impact causing a rapid sea level rise which we can call a natural but hopefully uncommon event.

For me I prefer natural over supernatural and I expect you are the opposite.

The evidence for the comet impact is not complete but if you look into what is presented so far the arguement is strong.

But the main thing to realise is land can move up and down relative to sea levels so perhaps rocks showing evidence they were once under the sea has no bearing upon sea levels world wide. I believe scientific evidence can be found to prove the correct view.

Thanks again irrespective of anything I sure would like to look at those rocks.

There is a place on the South coast with hundreds of fossils above the water line and that was fascinating.

Have a great day.

Alex

Originally Posted by JohnF

Pharaoh Tutankhamen had a couple of knifes in his tomb. A Solid Gold one and an Iron one. The Iron was the More valuably one as Iron was often from Meteors. But on my facebook page I saw a Youtube of smelting Iron with very simple primitive tools.

In South America is very ancient Aluminium sheets lining walls of ancient Buildings. The Only way we can smelt Aluminium today is with enormous amounts of Electricity. So that the Ancients 4000 years ago generate enormous amounts of electricity, or else they had other technologies to smelt Aluminium that modern man has never discovered.

Some ancient races could do that smelting of Iron, while others could not. And Archaeology has found some used Iron much earlier than others.

In India is found a large ancient Iron pillar that will not corrode. We cannot produce such Iron today.

Yes the reason I mentioned that iron should be easier to start with than copper was because I was aware of that knife and I bet it was not the only one or the first...
Are you talking about that African tribe smelting iron and making a hoe I think..cool.

I will Google the aluminium sheets you mention...sounds interesting.

And funny I was only looking at a vid re that iron pillar a couple of days ago....but I think the consensus is that the reason that it resists corrosion is that it is no doubt a object that has fallen to Earth ....and actually I think we can make Steel similar simply by analyzing the content of that pillar and making one..either that or just go for something in stainless steel..not necessarily a unexplainable mystery...most things can be explained with science these days...

I have spent some time today looking at how the Sahara was once lush and green only 5000 to 10000 years ago...who would have thought that...an interesting area for new discoveries I feel.

I hope you looked at that video I suggested...if you did great if you didn't I hope you just did not stick your fingers in your ears and go...laaarlarrrnaaar naaarr...if you did that I will be most disappointed. Seriously it contains such useful information as to how we arrived at so many beliefs we find still followed today...It is nice to know the truth and approach reality with an open mine and determination to honestly seek the truth...I do it all the time

Have a great day.
Alex

[croweater (Richard)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Thanks for that information John.

Finding shells etc in rocks above sea level does not necessarily mean that the sea was higher ... the Earth moves around and things are pushed all about so forgive me if I do not accept your evidence as proof of anything at all really.

I expect we both know the arguments for and against Noahs flood I expect you believe in a super natural explanation that the flood was ...well what the story tells you...and I am at a stage where I am still reviewing evidence that supports the hypothesis that the various flood myths common to many cultures came from a comet impact causing a rapid sea level rise which we can call a natural but hopefully uncommon event.

For me I prefer natural over supernatural and I expect you are the opposite.

The evidence for the comet impact is not complete but if you look into what is presented so far the arguement is strong.

But the main thing to realise is land can move up and down relative to sea levels so perhaps rocks showing evidence they were once under the sea has no bearing upon sea levels world wide. I believe scientific evidence can be found to prove the correct view.

Thanks again irrespective of anything I sure would like to look at those rocks.

There is a place on the South coast with hundreds of fossils above the water line and that was fascinating.

Have a great day.

Alex

Shells and other sea fossils are found at the top of Himalayas. Things definately move around over the years. Cheers, Richard

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by croweater

Shells and other sea fossils are found at the top of Himalayas. Things definately move around over the years. Cheers, Richard

That comet sure caused a big wave

Alex

[redbeard (Damien)]

Hi Alex,
Yes, I have thought about it, quite a bit over the past couple of years or so.
There easily could have been a civilization that were wiped out, or at least their technology wiped out. And those large stones/blocks that the 'ancients, (past civilization)' built with, very similar in different places around the world is interesting at the least.

As far as big craters go, there is an article in the latest "Science Illustrated' which mentions the one they found in Greenland recently, 31 km wide. About 13,000 years ago they are guessing at the moment and if correct, could very easily be something that wiped out a previous civilization if it existed before hand.
If there was a civilization that had some form of technology that existed before an cataclysmic event, they may have known that this meteor was coming way years beforehand and had time to evacuate. Who knows where, another planet/moon underground, another galaxy, another universe? They could have left 20,000 years ago and the ones left behind are, us. ??

They may even have come back to get us, but when they got here, they took 1 look and 'Oh My, let's get out of here!'.
I'm voting that there was a civilization before, simply based on all the very old, big stuff around and there have been no logical explanations to date. I would also imagine they were science based rather than religious based folk and all the building type structures were also built for science or lifestyle reasons.

Just some light thinking anyhow. Great topic.

Cheers,
Damien

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I have been looking at the possiblity of there being a civilization that was wiped out approx 11000 years ago due to a massive sea level rise caused by a possible cosmic impact in North American.
The interesting thing is so many cultures have in their history a great flood. And although it is probable that any flood was not like the biblical flood it certainly seems from the ice cores a sea level rise of 30 feet within 24 hours did occur followed by a further rise of 400 feet over the following year or two...that could hide an earlier civilization ..if that happened to us it would mean places like New York and London would be 400 feet under water and covered by heaps of silt for folk looking 10,000 years from now.
So have you looked at this proposition at all...
The proposal is that a comet hit North America and that caused the sea to rise..there is a possible crator but as it is under a lot of ice they have not dated it as yet..but if that crator is dated at approx 12000 years ago it is clear that our history is different to that we have believed.
Have you looked at the possibility that a civilization existed and wiped out 12000 years ago.
It certainly seems most cultures talk of a flood which may suggest there is something to the findings of a dramatic sea level rise.
If the crator turns out to be 12000 years old will put history need to be rewritten?
Alex

[dikman (Richard)]

The concept that aborigines came here with iron implements but forgot how to make them is just a little bit out there, I reckon. It's what I would call a self-fulfilling theory, because being iron they would have rusted away to nothing in the 60,000 odd years (latest figure) that they've been here, which would conveniently explain why we haven't found any. It's also a reasonable assumption that any race sufficiently civilized to master iron work would have also had bronze implements, as bronze is simpler to make, but there have been no bronze tools found in Oz to the best of my knowledge (and bronze doesn't rust away like iron).


Some theories put their actual arrival at maybe 5,000 years ago, and if they had iron tools in that time frame I would expect there to be some traces left - but nothing has been found.

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by JohnF

So not wishing to get banned, I will simply say that off of Japan are remains of a submerged city. Deep Off Peru is is a Man built Pyramid underwater. Underwater in the Mediterranean are found underwater cities, etc. That Atlantis Story is found in many other cultures.
....

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
Carl Sagan (Paraphrasing Pierre Simon Laplace: "The weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness.")

[xelasnave]

I wonder if there is a book that records all ruins known as well as all the maybe propositions setting out all specifications and description of composition of materials etc etc together with all estimates of time period and listing the various views from mainstream to off beat... I expect you would need many volumes ..

I refrain from speculation about so much but I do wonder why it is that folk think the pyramids were firstly built by the Egyptians when there is no recording by them making such a claim, secondly why it is common belief the pyramids were built as tombs when, as I understand matters not one body has been found in any pyramid...I mean ask the next five people you meet...who built the pyramids and what were they for...I bet your answer is...by the Egyptians to be used as tombs...there is no evidence unless I am mistaken for either proposition.

And it's beyond belief that the great pyramid could be built in 20 years...2.5 million blocks..do the sums..heck I did and it works out from recollection one block set in place every five minutes twenty four seven for 20 years..is that right?
However by assuming it was a tomb and therefore related to the kings time on the job we get..20 years..heck can you imagine the line of blocks...one after the other every five minutes of every day ,all 24 hours, for 20 years...who wrote the paper and came up with 20 years...
The interesting thing it seems around the great pyramid and everyone is walking over them without noticing is massive stone blocks...I don't think anyone has checked how thick but wouldn't that be nice to know.
Alex

[julianh72 (Julian)]

It's sad that in this day and age, one person making a claim on the internet that large scale stone construction is impossible without modern tools (or UFOs!), that the pyramids can't possibly have been built within one life-time, there is no evidence that they were tombs, we don't have the technology today to achieve what was accomplished by the ancients, etc, etc, etc, and that becomes fact in many people's minds.

Yes, the pyramids are a monumental undertaking (pun fully intended!), and the Great Pyramid in particular, and it is mind-boggling to think of what it must have taken - but when people have applied their minds to that question, it turns out to be entirely achievable with the technology and resources available to them.

The Egyptians didn't have access to modern tools (or UFOs), but they did have access to a huge, skilled, willing, seasonal workforce (no, they weren't slaves!), and they were clearly very good at project management.

There is good reason to believe that major earthwork ramps were part of the construction methodology - traces of them have been found at other pyramid sites, including archaeological evidence of the levering systems etc that were used to haul stone blocks up the ramps, with a gradient of 20% or more. E.g. see: https://www.livescience.com/63978-gr...iscovered.html

Take a look at this article on the construction of the Great Pyramid, as analysed by a modern-day project management team: https://web.archive.org/web/20070608.../0699feat.html
It is their conclusion that the construction would have required an average labour force of 13,200 workers over a 10-year duration. Even if you double the number of workers, and double the duration, it could still have been comfortably accomplished within one life-time. That analysis was published 20 years ago - and yet, a prevailing view seems to be that we have no idea how it could have been accomplished.

I visited Peru last year, including Machu Picchu and Cuzco. I have long heard of the astonishing precision of the stonework there, and how we (supposedly) have no idea how the blocks were shaped or moved. Yes, the stonework shows craftsmanship of the highest order, but the clues as to how it was done are visible everywhere you look - blocks which still have pegs and holes that were used for pulling them together, partially dressed stones (and stonework for more humble buildings) showing how a roughed-out block could be trimmed to a precision-fit, etc. (No resident of Cuzco seriously believes that aliens must have built the Incan temples - they walk past the far more mundane evidence every day in the main streets and alleys.)

On the lack of direct evidence of the pyramids being used as tombs - it's not just lack of tomb relics, it's a general lack of all sorts of artefacts. And that's because all of the pyramids were robbed in antiquity, as were almost all of the more conventional tombs. (That's why Tutankhamen's tomb was such a major find - it's one of very few pharaonic tombs to have remained intact into the modern era.) In fact, the one significant artefact found in the Great Pyramid is a granite sarcophagus, located in the King's Chamber - it's hard to imagine what this was to be used for, if not as a tomb! (Presumably this was too big to be looted, but everything else was taken thousands of years ago.)

None of this should in any way diminish the wonder of the pyramids - but please, don't resort to voodoo as being the only plausible explanation of how and why they were built.

[xelasnave]

Interesting video..lots of ruins..interesting assertion about star charts from China.
So if you have nothing else to do...

https://youtu.be/WMpuSMCt23U

Alex

Originally Posted by julianh72

It's sad that in this day and age, one person making a claim on the internet that large scale stone construction is impossible without modern tools (or UFOs!), that the pyramids can't possibly have been built within one life-time, there is no evidence that they were tombs, we don't have the technology today to achieve what was accomplished by the ancients, etc, etc, etc, and that becomes fact in many people's minds.

Yes, the pyramids are a monumental undertaking (pun fully intended!), and the Great Pyramid in particular, and it is mind-boggling to think of what it must have taken - but when people have applied their minds to that question, it turns out to be entirely achievable with the technology and resources available to them.

The Egyptians didn't have access to modern tools (or UFOs), but they did have access to a huge, skilled, willing, seasonal workforce (no, they weren't slaves!), and they were clearly very good at project management.

There is good reason to believe that major earthwork ramps were part of the construction methodology - traces of them have been found at other pyramid sites, including archaeological evidence of the levering systems etc that were used to haul stone blocks up the ramps, with a gradient of 20% or more. E.g. see: https://www.livescience.com/63978-gr...iscovered.html

Take a look at this article on the construction of the Great Pyramid, as analysed by a modern-day project management team: https://web.archive.org/web/20070608.../0699feat.html
It is their conclusion that the construction would have required an average labour force of 13,200 workers over a 10-year duration. Even if you double the number of workers, and double the duration, it could still have been comfortably accomplished within one life-time. That analysis was published 20 years ago - and yet, a prevailing view seems to be that we have no idea how it could have been accomplished.

I visited Peru last year, including Machu Picchu and Cuzco. I have long heard of the astonishing precision of the stonework there, and how we (supposedly) have no idea how the blocks were shaped or moved. Yes, the stonework shows craftsmanship of the highest order, but the clues as to how it was done are visible everywhere you look - blocks which still have pegs and holes that were used for pulling them together, partially dressed stones (and stonework for more humble buildings) showing how a roughed-out block could be trimmed to a precision-fit, etc. (No resident of Cuzco seriously believes that aliens must have built the Incan temples - they walk past the far more mundane evidence every day in the main streets and alleys.)

On the lack of direct evidence of the pyramids being used as tombs - it's not just lack of tomb relics, it's a general lack of all sorts of artefacts. And that's because all of the pyramids were robbed in antiquity, as were almost all of the more conventional tombs. (That's why Tutankhamen's tomb was such a major find - it's one of very few pharaonic tombs to have remained intact into the modern era.) In fact, the one significant artefact found in the Great Pyramid is a granite sarcophagus, located in the King's Chamber - it's hard to imagine what this was to be used for, if not as a tomb! (Presumably this was too big to be looted, but everything else was taken thousands of years ago.)

None of this should in any way diminish the wonder of the pyramids - but please, don't resort to voodoo as being the only plausible explanation of how and why they were built.

Hi Julian ...where did you get the UFO thing?

Why say such a thing? I did not remotely suggest such a thing ..did I?
It is clear you have formed a view and are not thinking about the matters that I am raising...you are creating a straw man which is not cricket old chap.

As to getting it done in twenty years please do me a favour..get out your calculator and tell me how many blocks an hour, each hour for the twenty years...Maybe I made a mistake but just that one single observation must cause one to doubt the twenty year story...wouldn't that be better than going on with alien rubbish..

I will look at your links and take the opportunity to thank you for providing them.

I know about pretty well all the ideas as to construction ramps etc ... so it must have been a pretty well built ramp to take a line of blocks that enabled them to lay a block each five minutes non stop for the alleged twenty years...please check my sums as I must be wrong. There is a case that they brought blocks up the causeway and a bit past the site and built a ramp from there...anyways there are a variety of ideas..but again note I said nothing about it could not be done as such...

If they were doing mainly back fill it still means 2.5 ton every five minutes for twenty years...I will look at the link as I am interested to find reasonable explanations..I hope there are no aliens involved.

Honest Julian..what is your preoccupation with aliens ..did I suggest that..if I have it would have been a transparent joke...I am hurt that you suggest such particularly as I did not..A lesser person would have taken it as a backhanded insult..and how else could your suggestion be taken given I have done none of the crack pot things you seem to be trying to link me to...please tell me where I have misunderstood your post.

Not cricket at all.

In any event the point I have been making (or so I believe) as to this rock work was not that it was difficult or that we could not do it..my point was that it is found world wide, even on Easter Island ..that is curious. The polygonal stuff..I am speaking fact..it is world wide.

You admit there is nothing to go on as to the tomb aspect..as it's all gone and focus upon a granite box that you guess must have been a tomb because you can't imagine what else it could be used for???? So based on your best guess we can ignore the fact that all the bodies are found in the Valley of the Kings...come on ..do you expect to sweep away my observations on your best unsupported guess.

AND if a cofin why is it in the corner...that alone suggests to me it was not a coffin and absolutely inconsistent with their strict ideas as to perfect layout.

And why nothing on the walls...looted?

And why do we find all the bodies in the Valley of the Kings..you do know where they found the king you mention..not in a pyramid is a clue.

And why do we find no recording of any pyramid building..you know reference to the builders the plans invoices..anything..not one single thing..we have bread and beer directions, pornography, details of order forms to instal windows in a house etc yet nothing re building any pyramid..oh one piece of evidence offered is some obscure reference to floating one stone block down the Nile with no reference to where or for what it's purpose...

Anyways forget the aliens ...and please stop suggesting I offer arguement from incredulity as I have not done so...these are red herrings...just think about the reasonable, propositions that I present...


And perhaps before I acknowledge your appeal not to resort to voodoo you may care to point out exactly where I have done so...you say I enlist aliens..again please so same..you say that I find explanation as to stuff unexplainable so please show where..I suggest you are attacking a straw man that you have constructed because for what ever reason you do not wish to address the matters I raise...how do you plead

Honestly pretty shabby and I am surprised you employ such insulting tactics.

Alex

[Peter Ward]

I've watched the video by Graham Hancock.

As Sagan was fond of saying, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Hancock throws up "ideology" used by academics (dam, and I thought I was learning scientific method as an undergrad) are one of the key reasons why you should believe his BS.

But he is selling pure snake oil and BS.

A back of the envelope calculation will show for sea levels to rise by 30 feet in 24 hours would be an all-life-on-earth-ends-now event....as it requires about 1.2 to the 19th power, yes that's 120000000000000000000, litres of water to be literally added or melted on the planet overnight.

Assuming a big Vogon water-tanker didn't dump its load on the planet for their hyperspace road works, then 1.2 x ten to the 19th by 333.55 Kj of energy was liberated to melt a lot of ice. That's about 4x 10 to the 21st power of kilojules. or 1.11 to the 21st power watts of energy.

Hoped you packed your sunblock, as that is about 1000x more that all of the energy the earth receives from the Sun. Yet remarkably most species around the Holocene era were doing just fine.

Sure, some megafauna did become extinct about 10,000 years ago.....it took a couple of thousand years. That has nothing on the current extinction rate.

The current extinction rate is some 800 species in the last century, with close to 20,000 species now being threatened.

What caused such mayhem? Hint: rocks from space not required.....

[xelasnave]

I warned early to be careful of listening to everything these folk say and Hancock was only one of who I had in mind.

So from the second link....."We estimated that a delivery rate of 180 blocks per hour was required from level 50 to level 74 and then used this rate to determine if the ramp size and number of crews were feasible. This seemed possible. We then determined that at the lower level the ramp would be wider and could sustain delivery rates twice this number. Above level 75 the delivery rate drops off because of the smaller number of blocks, so ramp size and crew numbers are reduced. The size of crews can be estimated in various ways.

Peter it's good you have a something on the water required...we can work out how many cubic miles of ice needed.
I will look at it later.
Alex

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I warned early to be careful of listening to everything these folk say and Hancock was only one of who I had in mind.

So from the second link....."We estimated that a delivery rate of 180 blocks per hour was required from level 50 to level 74 and then used this rate to determine if the ramp size and number of crews were feasible. This seemed possible. We then determined that at the lower level the ramp would be wider and could sustain delivery rates twice this number. Above level 75 the delivery rate drops off because of the smaller number of blocks, so ramp size and crew numbers are reduced. The size of crews can be estimated in various ways.

Peter it's good you have a something on the water required...we can work out how many cubic miles of ice needed.
I will look at it later.
Alex

According to Wiki, Greenland has 2,850,000 cubic kilometres of ice. My best estimate to get a sea level rise of 10 metres, we need to melt half of that in 24 hours.....

Highly unlikely.....

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

According to Wiki, Greenland has 2,850,000 cubic kilometres of ice. My best estimate to get a sea level rise of 10 metres, we need to melt half of that in 24 hours.....

Highly unlikely.....

Yes. I find if 20 k m x 2 k of ice was blasted up etc that only give (I think) approx 700000000000000 liters ...so we can rule out an overall rise as such...what about a 30 foot world wide wave?

And ice cores won't work that far back it seems as past a couple of thousand years the ice more or less explodes when they bring it up because it was under so much pressure..still looking into that as one of the claims re rise is that ice cores tell us that..it seems maybe it can not.


Alex

So must check the various claims about the future sea level rise due to warming that I have heard what in retrospect must be some exaggerations. Another thread..if all the ice melted etc.
Alex

And the claim of 400 ft seems perhaps over the top...And I guess Noahs flood is running into big problems as well.
Alex

230 feet...
Alex

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

And ice cores won't work that far back it seems as past a couple of thousand years the ice more or less explodes when they bring it up because it was under so much pressure....


Alex

Sorry Alex, that is plain wrong and nonsense.

They don't explode. Liquids and solids are highly incompressible.

I have some bunker coal from the Titanic on my desk. Taken 3.8Km down. So far it hasn't exploded.

The literature is full of examples of 600,000 year and older ice core data from samples takes at 3-4 km down.