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  #21  
Old 14-07-2020, 04:22 PM
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The_bluester (Paul)
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If you did not mention visual use I would say just get an EQ6-R (Though I understand them to be on months long backorder at the moment, I don't know about the AZEQ) as the AZEQ type is the superior beast for visual IMO. If you really want to do both visual and AP then the AZEQ is probably a good compromise, just you need to be aware they may need a different technique to balance the dec axis (As described above) and balancing the RA is always going to be a little tricky. I have generally just balanced mine a little counterweight heavy and lived with the outcome. At 6-700mm focal length, guiding is not going to be too tough.
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Old 14-07-2020, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Xeteth View Post
Sounds like you've got most things in order, glad to hear! The EQ6 should handle that weight of scope with ease . Most of it is indeed a once-off cost, only needing to spend more if upgrading. A flatbox is used to assist in creating flats - these help to remove vignetting and any dust motes that are present throughout the imaging train. A flatbox is totally optional, as you can use the old white t-shirt method (and other methods) - but I certainly found life a lot easier with one. If you do choose to get one now or in the future I highly recommend ordering one from Peter from IIS - his are great!

Regarding the software - there's many tools that will be able to do the job. There's no 'best software' out there, really it comes down to personal preference in what features you're after.

You'll need an image capture software - Astrophotography Tool, Sequence Generator Pro, NINA, Sharpcap are a few examples. Then you'll need a stacking software (most people use DeepSkyStacker, it's free and does a great job) and something to process the images - commonly Photoshop or PixInsight are used, but there's many others out there.

Good luck with it all, don't get frustrated if things don't work out at first - there's a steep learning curve but it's great when you get a stellar image!
Thanks Dave, that's great info for me to make note of, Cheers Fox
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  #23  
Old 14-07-2020, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jahnpahwa View Post
Not that you need another option here, but...

I was thinking last night, if I was looking for something in between skywatcher and 10micro/AP/etc, I'd be looking closely at the avalon linear or M uno. Guiding graphs from these are amazing, they look sensational, a massive step up in quality, by the looks of it. They're not that expensive when bought in Aus. Testar, on the sidebar here, sells em, I can see a pic of the uno right now.

Thanks JP, no harm at all in more suggestions. In my previous recent posts, I was initially considering the Avalon M-Zero, but in the in it was obviously not going to be big enough to handle the NP127is, I had quite a bit of correspondence with Avalon, Italy. The M-Uno and Linear seemed just too big for what I am after, and also being around the $10K mark, the cost/benefit didn't add up for my needs. They're beautiful looking mounts though, and the single fork arm with no Meridian flip is quite unique. Cheers, Fox
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  #24  
Old 14-07-2020, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by The_bluester View Post
If you are talking in terms of up to 6K for a mount, that would cover an ioptron CEM70G, which has an inbuilt guidescope/camera. I am actually waiting on delivery of one now. 600 mm or so would be about the limit on where you would think an inbuilt guider could perform before short focal length and differential flexure may become a problem.

That said, the inbuilt guider may or may not turn out to be a good thing, I am going in to that bit with my eyes open that I may end up having to buy a new OAG and guide cam sometime after the mount arrives. I am refreshing almost everything, so all my existing gear including OAG and guide cam will get put on my SCT for my son to use on the existing AZEQ mount. If he looses interest then I will have two imaging rigs at once. I am gambling on the inbuilt guider being a good thing. There was no significant cost difference between a CEM70 plus a new OAG and guide cam or a CEM70G with no new OAG or camera due to the inbuilt setup, that left the difference being better electronic integration on the CEM70G (Which has USB3 instead of USB2, and an inbuilt hub which leaves you with a single USB3 connection on the stationary part of the mount for mount control, inbuilt guider, inbuilt electronic polar scope and 3 port hub on the puck.

Thanks Paul, one mount I also initially considered was the iOptron CEM40 and even the CEM40EC. I wish you the best of fortune with the CEM70G (looks fantastic) and all the new equipment in your refresh. I had no idea about this in-built guider feature.

However, I think for my needs and preferences, I'd lean to the Losmandy GM811 at this price point.

Cheers, Fox
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  #25  
Old 14-07-2020, 07:02 PM
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I have heard of odd issues when trying to guide the EC versions so I was a little leery on that.



Given I will generally be mounting my SVX80 which is small and light I really looked a the CEM40 as well, but the centre mounted design in between two bearings of the 60 and now the 70 appealed to me as well as the ability to carry something a lot bigger later. I really am just hoping the inbuilt guider turns out to be a good thing, but the USB3 integration was the selling point for me and as long as the inbuilt guider performs well enough it being there evened up the money to go with that version.
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  #26  
Old 14-07-2020, 10:21 PM
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Hi everyone,

thank you for the input, experience and info, it’s been very helpful in my decision making. I was so close to pulling the trigger for the Losmandy GM811, but with the advice from you guys, and opinion from old posts, I think the AZ-EQ6 is the better option for me.

Although the Losmandy is a fantastic precision instrument, it would be overkill for me. There are more important factors I need too think about as a novice eg. precise polar alignment, guiding, weather, seeing, patience, image processing etc. none which has anything to do with the choice between these mounts. It’s also obvious that incredible images can be taken by experienced astrophotographers with modest equipment; so its all about learning the skills to begin with.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love a GM811, but only after I’ve gotten the stripes to do such a mount justice. Fox
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  #27  
Old 15-07-2020, 08:20 AM
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Will done Fox,
The AZEQ6 will be a very capable mount for your setup.
Now we know we to blame for the clouds
Bo
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  #28  
Old 15-07-2020, 10:35 AM
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I am sure you will be happy with the mount. Just to demonstrate what I mean in balancing the dec axis. These two pics are without moving the scope balance wise. To start with the mount was counterweights down as though it was pointed at the pole. I released the dec clutch and rotated it counterweights level for the first image. For the second, all I did was rotate the RA axis a little more so it was counterweights up (and caught the OTA before it hit the tripod leg. It is substantially out of balance.

That trick will help with balancing the dec, RA is a matter of doing the best you can with a preference of being a little counterweight heavy. )
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  #29  
Old 15-07-2020, 11:08 AM
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Thx guys, my purchase just went through, they have it in stock. I checked it was the AZ-EQ6 Pro model, the latest version that has the additional USB port. I got the Skywatcher version cos I like the white to go with the NP127is - Ok, I’m vain! Just hope I can pick it up soon before something stupid happens like frakking Stage 4 lockdown !

On a side note, the astro shop said that astronomy sales have really spiked since Covid; indeed last weekend when sussing out the AZ-EQ6, newbie customers including couples seemed very keen in the shop.

Paul, I now see what you mean about the Dec axis issue, not nice if it’s typical of the mount... we shall see. Cheers, Fox
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  #30  
Old 15-07-2020, 11:56 AM
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It is not really an "Issue" as such, more of a characteristic to be aware of and work around. Both the bearings and clutches are a different design to the EQ6, better in some ways (Much simpler to assemble and set up for one thing) but not as good in respect to fine balancing. For visual use it wont make much difference unless you really do the balancing poorly, especially in Alt-Az mode.
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  #31  
Old 25-07-2020, 08:31 AM
phomer (Paul)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox View Post
Dear readers,

You’ve probably seen my recent posts about upgrading my LXD75. With an NP127is, my current use is visual but I am planning to get into AP - so after much thought have narrowed it down to 2 choices - quite different from each other:

A) Skywatcher AZ-EQ6 (about $2,900). I had a good look at one just this weekend. I no longer worry that the 15kg head is too heavy, sure, it's on the heavier side, but I didn’t find it overly difficult to lift and assemble. The AZ-EQ6 has a great solidity, I love that it has AZ capability, and the large screw-bolt altitude adjustment is fantastically smooth. Drawbacks: the azimuth adjustment is so damn crude !!!, actually no better than my LXD75 - subsequently, the head can ‘shift’ when tightening after azimuth adjustment. Also, we are beginning to see reports about backlash in EQ-6 belt drives now that these mounts have been around for a while. This is where its “entry-level quality” begins to show.

B) Losmandy GM811 (about $6,300). Ok, the more I read about AP, experienced photographers stress that the mount is so important. The next level up is something like the Losmandy; the GM811 is the obvious candidate. Beautifully machined, high precision, engineering and geometry, very solid and gorgeous finish. I love the multiple bubble levels, and precision adjustments in altitude and azimuth show no play when tightening. Drawbacks: Gemini 2 does scare me a bit, it does look fussy and has its learning curve.

OK, I know that both mounts will do the job; the Losmandy is simply at the next higher tier and price point. Let’s be honest, I’ve got NO (zilch!) experience in AP right now - so would the Losmandy just be a risky waste of money for a novice like me ??? I still have to learn about cameras, guiding, filters, precision alignment, software programs, and all the image processing - there is the choice of which camera, buy a guidescope, maybe a Pole Master - which will add several $$ hundred more.

Is it more sensible of me to ‘cut my teeth’ on the more entry level AZ-EQ6 with EQMOD and PHD2 etc. - am I right in saying that the large majority of highly capable imagers are using Chinese EQ-6 level mounts, with laptops and autoguiding. I can always get a GM811 later on, and I dare say appreciate a Losmandy more after I ‘learn the chops’ to do it justice…

thanks
Fox
Fox,


I have not used the GM811 but have owned a G11 for around 15 years. In that time I have upgraded it a number of times including to goto. I think it will hold its value and give you many years of service. Mine will most likely outlast me.
Paul
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  #32  
Old 25-07-2020, 10:39 AM
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Fox,


I have not used the GM811 but have owned a G11 for around 15 years. In that time I have upgraded it a number of times including to goto. I think it will hold its value and give you many years of service. Mine will most likely outlast me.
Paul
Thanks Paul, I am just staring to get used to the AZ-EQ6, it really is early days yet. If I really get into AP, who knows, a Losmandy might be on the cards one day, I have plenty on my plate to learn in the meantime. Just downloading software at the moment, ASCOM, EQMOD, PHD2, Firecapture, looks as I need a specialised USB to skywatcher EQ6 cable -the Lynx Astro looks like the one to get, it has a chipset in the cable which seems to be important for communication compatibility... Fox
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  #33  
Old 26-07-2020, 07:50 AM
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By what I have read, you should be able to use a USB cable if you have one of the new ones with a USB port on the mount, it seems they have an FDTI chipset incorporated.

Seems like incremental steps to get the most out of the existing hardware. My new iopton CEM70 (When it arrives) is the same with an inbuilt USB to serial converter to replace having to have a cable with one built in, rather than updating the mount hardware to use USB comms natively.

Last edited by The_bluester; 26-07-2020 at 08:02 AM.
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  #34  
Old 26-07-2020, 07:44 PM
Xeteth (David)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox View Post
Just downloading software at the moment, ASCOM, EQMOD, PHD2, Firecapture, looks as I need a specialised USB to skywatcher EQ6 cable -the Lynx Astro looks like the one to get, it has a chipset in the cable which seems to be important for communication compatibility... Fox
Does the mount have the USB port on the head similar to what you see in this image? If so, then you do not need the specialised cable - you can use a normal USB-B cable for connection directly into the mount head. Otherwise, you can use a USB-B cable through the handset also.
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  #35  
Old 27-07-2020, 09:43 AM
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Hi David, Paul

Thanks for the reply, maybe I should have been more adventurous about that USB port, yes, I have the AZ-EQ6 Pro which has the additional USB port, but I did some searching on various boards and there seemed to be reports about problems using that port with EQMOD and the EQ-6 Pro. Excuse the pun, maybe I got my wires crossed, I have the Lynx Astro cable on order anyway, it seems to be well made and 5m length.

There are some things on the Skywatcher handset control which seem quite lacking. There don’t seem to be user friendly slew limits you can set to prevent scope collision. A second thing that is missing is the ability to ‘spiral search’ when you slew to an object but it’s not quite in the field of view, the Meade Autostar has this covered which seems to be a major advantage for imaging planets; ie you focus perfectly on a star at high magnification/bahtinov mask then you slew to a planet that’s slightly out of the field of view at such power.

Can EQMOD do both easily?

Thx, Fox
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  #36  
Old 27-07-2020, 10:09 AM
Startrek (Martin)
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Fox,
I’m an EQMOD fanatic
Here’s some background on EQMOD and how to use Stellarium with EQMOD when you have the latest USB port on your Skywatcher Mount -

It’s been bugging me for months to find more detailed information so after researching over the past week on the web here’s my summary of procedures for using Ascom control for your Skywatcher and Orion telescope mount with EQMOD users of Stellarium version 0.19.3 and later ( without the use of StellariumScope )

History
StellariumScope was developed by Scott Pinkham of ByteArts in 2007 as a third party software to configure Stellarium, connect your mount and provide functionality with slew, stop and sync commands thereby providing Stellarium with Ascom support for the control of the telescope mount.Stellariumscope connects to Stellarium as 3 separate telescopes. From a Stellarium perspective when you press cntrl 1 it commands telescope 1 to Goto the selected object, cntrl 2 moves telescope 2 and cntrl 3 moves telescope 3 in the same way.Stellariumscope receives a notification when each of these moves are activated but for telescope 2 and telescope 3 it simply uses these notification events as triggers to initiate Ascom Stop and Sync functions.The telescope 3 Sync function has nothing to do with Stellarium at all, Stellarium doesn’t even know its happening it thinks it’s moving a telescope.Now this is where EQASCOM uses this telescope 3 function to add Sync points to its alignment model ( n - point alignment ) You can make as many sync points or alignment points as you like and EQASCOM will apply the most appropriate transformation to make pointing corrections. In late 2019 developer Gion Kunz finally provided Ascom telescope support in Stellarium version 0.19.3 onward thus eliminating the requirement to use StellariumScope in the future.StellariumScope can still be used but the developer recommends you adopt Ascom control

For EQMOD users obviously the latest Ascom platform drivers must be installed as well as the EQASCOM driver and Stellarium version 0.19.3

Procedure to use Ascom control of telescope with Stellarium ( StellariumScope no longer required )
1/ Open Stellarium
2/ Select Configuration tab F2
3/ Select Plugins tab
4/ At the bottom of the drop down list select Telescope Control
5/ In Telescope Control tick Load at start up
6/ Close Configuration window and shut down Stellarium
7/ Restart Stellarium and reconfigure Telescope Control by selecting Configuration F2 again , then Plugins tab, then Telescope control on left hand side drop down list , then press wide flat button “configure”
8/ In Telescope window press button “Add” and then select “Ascom” as your telescope control and name your telescope or mount
8/ Select “Choose your Telescope”then the Ascom Telescope Chooser appears so then select EQMOD HEQ5/6
9/ Click OK
10/ Select the telescope control you have listed , normally the first one automatically pops up
11/ Select “Connect” and then the Ascom telescope control should connect EQMOD to mount
12/ You should now be able to see your named scope and target icon in the sky view of Stellarium
13/ Don’t forget to manually Unpark EQMOD before you slew to a target
14/ Default key functions for Stellarium are as follows -
CTRL + 1 slew to target
CTRL + Shift + 1 Sync scope ( adds alignment point )
CTRL + Alt + Shift + 1 Cancels scope operation
NB: Other key functions may be assigned in Windows to simplify number of key strokes
NB: Ensure your site location details in Stellarium match the site location details in the Ascom EQMOD set Up window

Serial USB Cable Connections to Mount ( EQMOD)

The most effective and reliable way to connect to the mount is via the EQ Direct method ( laptop direct to mount with a USB2EQ5 cable , hand controller removed )
The new Skywatcher EQ6-R mount now has the option of an additional USB serial port connection which only requires a standard USB2A to USB2B cable ( Max 5m length )
The only changes I’m aware of to facilitate connection between mount and laptop using a standard USB2A to USB2B cable is change the baud rate in the EQMOD port settings in the Ascom EQMOD Set Up window and change the baud rate in the USB serial comm port found in Device Manager, Ports,Properties and Port Settings. The baud rate should be changed from 9600 to 115200 ( using the old conventional shoestring serial USB cable , USB2EQ5 , the baud rate in the Ascom EQMOD Set Up and Serial Port worked with 9600 )

I welcome any comments , further information or errors in the procedures or documentation

Thanks

Martin
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  #37  
Old 27-07-2020, 10:37 AM
jahnpahwa (JP)
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I welcome any comments , further information or errors in the procedures or documentation

Thanks

Martin
Standard comment from me, Martin. Thank you, this is very useful.

JP
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  #38  
Old 27-07-2020, 01:44 PM
Xeteth (David)
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Originally Posted by Fox View Post
A second thing that is missing is the ability to ‘spiral search’ when you slew to an object but it’s not quite in the field of view, the Meade Autostar has this covered which seems to be a major advantage for imaging planets; ie you focus perfectly on a star at high magnification/bahtinov mask then you slew to a planet that’s slightly out of the field of view at such power.

Can EQMOD do both easily?

Thx, Fox
I personally haven't done any planetary/lunar imaging so I'm not entirely versed on tracking those objects. However, I too found the SW handset a little clumsy to use and instead opted to use plate solving for DSO target acquisition.

In basic terms, plate solving involves the process of selecting a target from a library of objects and having the mount slew to where it believes that object should be. It will then take an image and assess the star patterns on that image to determine exactly what it is looking at, once completed it will automatically determine who movements need to be made to hit that target so that it's center of frame.

I used the plate solving feature in Astrophotography Tool (which uses AllSkyPlateSolver or PlateSolve2) to do this and it worked flawlessly. The only thing you'll need to make sure is that the mount starts in the home position before doing this (since the EQ6 doesn't have encoders and therefore doesn't know the position it's in). It was a bit of a task to set it up for first use, but once done it made DSO imaging a breeze. I could be locked on any target I wanted within a minute or two of being polar aligned.

Hopefully someone else can shed some light on planetary aquisition/tracking
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  #39  
Old 27-07-2020, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Xeteth View Post
I personally haven't done any planetary/lunar imaging so I'm not entirely versed on tracking those objects. However, I too found the SW handset a little clumsy to use and instead opted to use plate solving for DSO target acquisition.

In basic terms, plate solving involves the process of selecting a target from a library of objects and having the mount slew to where it believes that object should be. It will then take an image and assess the star patterns on that image to determine exactly what it is looking at, once completed it will automatically determine who movements need to be made to hit that target so that it's center of frame.

I used the plate solving feature in Astrophotography Tool (which uses AllSkyPlateSolver or PlateSolve2) to do this and it worked flawlessly. The only thing you'll need to make sure is that the mount starts in the home position before doing this (since the EQ6 doesn't have encoders and therefore doesn't know the position it's in). It was a bit of a task to set it up for first use, but once done it made DSO imaging a breeze. I could be locked on any target I wanted within a minute or two of being polar aligned.

Hopefully someone else can shed some light on planetary aquisition/tracking
Thx David, as a newbie it’s only baby steps for me at present, perhaps I’m making too big of a deal of things at the moment. I’m pretty good at polar aligning with using a polar scope and locating the Octans trapezium, so I think there will be no issue with wide field objects, it’s the tiny ones needing high power that will be more tricky. I still have some essential items to acquire esp. Bahtinov mask etc. Fox
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