hi Everyone need some help/advice.
My 10" dob came with an Easy find II finder scope while it works ok I'm finding it difficult to use with me eyesight being short sighted. I can look through the eye pieces without my glasses no issue but to look through the finder is an issue. I wear multi focals and need to get to the back of the scope to see though the finder which is starting to drive me mad as the view is never clear Is changing to a telrad going to solve my problem. Looked at other finders like the Rigel and prefer the bullseye of the telrad. I have seen some home made extensions to get the easy finder higher of the OTA so you can probably get your head closer. Not afraid to spend the bucks to get this right.
You help and opinions will be greatly appreciated.
Hi Peter
I'll chime in with my own personal experience of what works best for me. Others will hopefully add their opinions too.
I have a 10" dob as well. I am also short sighted & don't need glasses for eyepiece viewing. I had a heck of a time with the 9x50 finder that came with the scope- I could never see a great deal thru it & I couldn't contort my body & neck in the positions I needed to, to see anything useful of it.
Plus, I had trouble finding a particular star in the sky thru it (too many teeny stars in the finder).
So off it came and I replaced it with a red dot finder (RDF). The one that's a square glass window. I find that easier to look thru than the long tube ones. At zero magnification (like the Telrad) it was easy to point the scope on a certain star in the sky. I never looked back.
Then, that wasn't enough. I kept the RDF but I needed something to help me find targets.
So I bought a Telrad. Most people praise them highly. Me, I struggled and I could never get objects with it. And it dewed up too easily rendering it useless. I could've spent a lot of money buying dew equipment to counter act this but I didn't want to. I also found the circles distracting.
I got rid of it.
I then added a Stellarview finder next to my RDF by drilling extra holes (hubby did all the work not me lol) for it. They sit snuggly next to each other so it's as much in the middle as possible- the finder is in the middle with the RDF just off middle. And I've never looked back!
The Stellarview finder is a dream to use. The right angle holder (R/A) on it means that you can position its eyepiece where ever you want it (it swings). You can also adjust focus to suit your eyes. And you can easily swap eyepieces on it (it already comes with an eyepiece which is the best one to use with it & it has a lovely large field of view). So now, I find the star with my RDF and I star hop from there using the finder.
The Stellarview is a top quality telescope in its own right. I bought the tripod adaptor and I just slide it off the dovetail from my scope and sometimes use it on my tripod- little grab'n'go scope!
I decided to go for the 9x50 rather than the 10x60 so I keep a nice widefield view to help find things. I think you will be impressed in how well this is made and how it performs. When observing thru my scope, I spend just as much time enjoying the views thru this finder.
I've since added an Argo Narvis push-to-go and here too I find the RDF is so handy for doing the two star alignments on it and when it takes me to an object, I look thru the RDF to see where it is in the sky.
If you'd like a pic of how both the RDF & Stellarview finder sits on my 10" dob, let me know and I'll happy to take a pic and post it here. Meanwhile, here is a pic of it on my tripod.
If you're interested in purchasing one, fellow forum member Peter Read of SDM sells them. And he's in Melbourne where you are! Even if you weren't, he'd post anyway. I bought mine from him and he was such a pleasure to deal with and so helpful. He also told me exactly what I needed to buy with it to mount it on the scope (I found the Stellarview webpage too confusing with all its accessories for it!). The mount he chose for me is perfect as he said the one he recommended for me works the best on my dob). If the mount is too high, you have to stretch too high to see thru it.
In my opinion the Telrad is the best of all reflex finders. It has 0.5, 2 & 4 degree circles that are easy to see. As far as dew goes there are dew shields and dew heaters available for the Telrad. See http://www.company7.com/telrad/products/telrad.html for info on Telrad. Bintel sell the dew shields and heaters.
If you want a better finder then I too would recommend Stellarvue in particular the F60 corrected right angle version. It is a nice balance between aperture and weight. You would not go wrong with either F50 or if you want a lot more aperture, the F80.
I have the F80 but I do not like the annoying pulse illuminator (too distracting when looking for faint stuff). However the F80 really shines when combined with a 16mm T5 Nagler since it is highly corrected for the f3.75 view. I normally use a 20mm Plossl though. I do not need a cross hair and certainly not a pulse illuminated one.
The 16NT5 gives me 4 deg field in the F80 which matches the outer ring of the Telrad nicely. The only disadvantage of the F80 is weight and you may need a counterweight for it hence my recommendation for the F60.
Another very good reflex finder albeit a bit expensive is the Tele Vue Star Beam. I have it on another telescope and it is basically a red dot finder with variable brightness and variable pulse. Being a reflex sight and not a finder means I can live with the pulse (having adjustment of timing is great).
In my opinion the Telrad is the best of all reflex finders. It has 0.5, 2 & 4 degree circles that are easy to see. As far as dew goes there are dew shields and dew heaters available for the Telrad. See http://www.company7.com/telrad/products/telrad.html for info on Telrad. Bintel sell the dew shields and heaters.
Hi Astro744,
I paid the extra money and got the dew shield.
It wouldn't close properly so Russ had to grind it down to make it close . Once that was sorted, the problem was remembering to close that dew shield straight away & there laid my problem . It proved to be a headache remembering every time I looked through it to close it.
After forking out $79 for the Telrad plus another $39 for the dew shield (that had to be adapted anyway), I didn't want to spend anymore money on a Telrad heater .
Just saying again... this was my experience with the Telrad. Many out there say they love them.
this is all really good advice... being searching the net and found an orion 9 x 50 illuminated right angle correct image FS at bintel. I was thinking I already have an illuminated reticle so if I paired the scope with the finder I would achieve same result as a RDF and discard the ez II. completely. The alignment between the two would then be close to perfect Is this work able???
Suzy really tempted to go the Stellavue as grab and go scope would be great like to see your OTA set up
Hi Peter.
They are two different things. The illuminated recticle lights up the cross hairs on the finder making them easier to see. I have one but I don't use it as I can see the cross hairs quite easily observing in my light polluted backyard. A dark site can be a different story where those cross hairs are harder to see.
An RDF is zero magnification. What you see out of them is exactly what you see in the sky. Whereas a finder will magnify putting more stars & feint objects within view.
thanks Susy haven't been to a dark site yet! so do you really need both? a finder/spotting scope and a RDF. do I keep the EzII and buy a finder/ spotting scope. I can pretty much find my way around with naked eye and with Syn scan can locate DsO's.
The EZ11 is a Red dot finder, if you find it difficult to use get the Telarad and the cover or heater as the dewing will drive you crazy.
The Telrad will give you a broader window to look through and with the Bulls Eye and degree circles will be of a clearer way to line up on an object.
The reticule is dimeble so you can have it as faint as you like.
The Telrad is a bit bulkier but is a very worthwhile piece of equipment.
If you rely on the syn scan to find things then you don't need a finder,but it is still a good idea to have a finder as sometimes you just want to move the scope over to an area of the sky that takes your fancy and see what objects are in it such as clusters etc.
Cheers
Another reason to get a finder scope, if there is a comet or some other object in the sky that is not in the data base of your SynScan and is below naked eye visibility,but will be visible in say a 8x50 finder then that will make it worth while having one.
Cheers
I didn't realise either . I don't feel so silly now .
Gosh really? I would've thought Orion scopes would have a finderscope, huh.
I thought you were talking about the standard straight thru finders that come with dobs & thought Orion had their own little special name for them .
Here's the confusion on your first post: "My 10" dob came with an Easy find II finder scope"
It's not a finderscope.
Finderscopes look like little baby telescopes with cross hairs on them which magnify the sky similar to binoculars. Like the Stellarview pic I posted.
What you have is classed as Red Dot Finder, also called reflex finders as Astro744 mentioned. It's a finder. Not a finder "scope"
Peter, as Ron said, there's many reasons why there is a need for a finderscope. Ron mentioned comets (there's often comets in our skies worth taking a look at, currently there's around 5 observable ones thru a 10" dob if you have a good horizon & skies & good observing eyes). There's also novae, supernovae, asteroids and as Ron said, objects that aren't in your data base. It's just a matter of entering the co-ordinates which will put you in the patch of sky- so finder charts, images & a finder are very helpful here.
If you just want to stick to the catalogue in the data base, then no, you probably don't need one.
I've taken a look at what the EZ11 finder is. I have a very similar one on my 4" dob. I completely understand your struggle using it with glasses, as do I. It's like looking down a narrow tube trying to find the red dot.
You can always get a finderscope down the track and if you're any good at drilling holes in the tube, you can keep it with the RDF.
If you haven't used a finderscope before, I honestly don't know if you'd struggle using it to find the star in the sky that you need to align the scope up with. Some people (including me) struggle here as finderscopes magnify the sky thereby showing more stars. With an RDF what you see in the sky naked eye is what you get, as it has zero magnification. So it's much easier to plonk the scope on that star.
So let's just look at replacing the RDF for now as per your original post.
My suggestion would be to either go the Telrad or the square glass type of RDF or what Astro744 mentioned.
A plus with the Telrad is that it's mounted with adhesive tape. So if you do decide to add a finderscope later, you won't be drilling holes. It's a good idea to temporarily secure the Telrad with electrical tape wrapping it around it and the tube until you are well and truly happy with where it sits, before you adhere it on. The glue on that tape is quite strong.
But...
I don't know that those circles on the Telrad will benefit you much as you will be relying on your sync scan to find things.
I'd also like you to consider this point....
A square glass RDF (guys, is there a name for this type lol) is much easier to use at objects close to zenith than the Telrad. With the Telrad, aiming it near zenith, you have to contort yourself to look up that long tube to find the dot. And that's why when they sell the dew shield with an inbuilt mirror on hinges that you can set the angle to, which helps counteract this problem. I paid an extra $39 for that dew shield from Bintel a few years ago.
Also, it takes a lot for my square glass RDF to dew up. It's easy to look thru no matter what angle as well. It also has brightness adjustment and a choice of dot, cross etc.
So just in my own personal experience of using having 3 RDFs, I will give the square glass type the big thumbs up.
Decisions... Decisions.... I hope we have confused too much.
I've just tried to upload the pics of my set up but I've encountered problems. As soon as the moderators have fixed up the issue, I will do so.
hey Suzy (And everyone else) Sorry for the mega confusion on the RDF. But a blessing as I just learnt lots about finder scopes as well as RDF's . I also challenged the Bintel people. Regarding the RDF I think I know the type your talking about sits about 4" high so easier to see through. From what everyone has taught me sounds like I need both which from pricing around The Stellavue is a definite especially as I like it as a quick Grab and go scope. Bintel suggested a 70mm "build your" own but to get the same as The stellavue more expensive. Back to the RDF how bad is the dew issue with the telrad? Is the Dew shield enough or is the heater needed. ? is the red bullseye brightness adjustable or is that why the"pulse" unit needed?
Quote) Back to the RDF how bad is the dew issue with the telrad? Is the Dew shield enough or is the heater needed. ? is the red bullseye brightness adjustable or is that why the"pulse" unit needed?
I mentioned this in my post.
Quote)
if you find it difficult to use get the Telarad and the cover or heater as the dewing will drive you crazy.
The Telrad will give you a broader window to look through and with the Bulls Eye and degree circles will be of a clearer way to line up on an object.
"The reticule is dimeble" so you can have it as faint as you like.
The Telrad is a bit bulkier but is a very worthwhile piece of equipment.
The cover or the heater will suffice, I have had a Telrad for over twenty years
and have neither cover or heater,I just stuff a bit of cloth in it till I need to use it,but that is not very often.
Suzy has more knowledge on the other RDF so will let her answer that part.
Cheers
hi Everyone need some help/advice.
My 10" dob came with an Easy find II finder scope while it works ok I'm finding it difficult to use with me eyesight being short sighted. I can look through the eye pieces without my glasses no issue but to look through the finder is an issue. I wear multi focals and need to get to the back of the scope to see though the finder which is starting to drive me mad as the view is never clear
thanks
Peter
G'day Peter,
Some clarification from an optometrist, albeit retired.
1. Easyfind II is a finder, not a finderscope. ie. no magnification and no provision for focussing so you need to use the distance part of your spec lenses.
2. Telrad is a finder also, with the caveats above.
3. Stellarvue finders are scopes in their own right with a magnification of 8X or 9X. They usually are focussable, so you don't need your specs, just like your telescopes.
SO... you need your glasses for a RDF (Red Dot Finder) but not for a telescope or a finderscope.
Therefore you need to change from wearing specs to find the star, and not wearing specs to observe it. Note: you can leave your specs on to observe, but you need to use the distance part of the lenses which can be frustrating.
Clear as mud???
Hope this helps.
Hello Graeme , I haven't seen you around for a while.
Peter, here are the pics as promised.
If you are going to be using the Stellarview finderscope as a grab'n'go, please bare in mind that at 9x50, it is quite similar to a binocular view (less the large field of view that binos give of course). Having said that, the SV out performs my 10x60 binoculars in clarity & sharpness. And you won't have to deal with the shakiness like with binoculars.
I'll give you a bit more food for thought (& hopefully not confuse you more!). I moved on to a Kson 4" dob as a grab'n'go. More light gathering power! I can't find them for sale anymore here in Australia , but Bintel do one. And it's an Orion too! This was my first choice before I came across the cheaper Kson which only cost me $100 two years ago. See it here. Whoa lookey it's on sale for $179!
Oh I do love spending peoples money .
This is a pic of my 4" named "Bubba" next to my 10" - it had a baby .
That's my daughter playing with her smartphone taking pics of the solar eclipse a few years ago, bless her, little astro chick in the making . And the hubby busy taking pics using prime focus.
The RDF shown here in my pics looks the same one (tho I didn't buy it from there) as Bintel's here .
If you get the Telrad with the dew shield, make sure you have that cover down when not using it- that was my constant fail when it came to dewing up in no time.
As for Bintel's 70mm build it yourself one, I haven't heard of that one.
Thanks Suzy for the pix decided to get both finder scope and telrad, probably not the stellavue as I like the idea of the grab and go 4". dob.... but then again ?...Think I need to do more investigation on a grab and go.
Thanks to everyone you have been great and patient.
Graham T glasses on glasses off is areal pain..... is it the same with the telrad?....or can you see that easier due to the size and easier to get your head around?
You're welcome Peter .
Also, more food for thought on the grab'n'go (whichever one you end up going for)...
My 4" makes a great solar observing scope as you don't need big aperture to view the Sun & saves the hassle of taking a big dob outside for a short time.
Also, kids love it & is easy for them to use themselves. They love pointing the RDF onto objects and finding it themselves. I love involving children in Astronomy.
Regarding your question on the Telrad, I hope Graeme doesn't mind me answering on his behalf while I'm here....
You will still need your glasses as it's zero magnification.
I do the glasses on, glasses off dance myself, so annoying.
If you get a finderscope (have you purchased one already?), there's two different kinds. One with a right angle eyepiece which is much much easier to look thru (as on the Stellarview) or a straight thru one- you may need to crank your head around a bit for this one but they're cheaper. From what I've understood in my past readings (I read a lot ) when I researched the Bintel one over the SV, the SV R/A eyepiece is much smoother to use when moving it around (aside from the quality difference as a whole) but it comes down to price!
If you go with a right angle finder make sure you get the Right Angle Corrected Image (RACI) version. This way the view in the finder will match any star chart and not be back to front.
Hi Peter. I'm not an expert by any means, but I'll share my experience. First up, I don't own a RDF but have used one, albeit one of the cheap variety and the main distraction for me was the minimum brightness of the 'dot' was still too bright. That said, the view through the glass window was fine.
After many nights of trawling the web, I convinced myself that a Telrad was the way to go. It's ubiquitous, can be dimmed to almost nothing, has accessories, mounts easily with double sided tape, sips batteries at a *very* slow rate, has multiple target rings, is catered for by most astronomy programs and is a star hopping king. It 'just works' exceptionally well for its intended purpose. The downsides are its weight, its length and how easily it dews up. I countered the Telrad's weight with counterweights on the bottom of my mirror box, and built a simple dew cover from black felt that sits over the top of the combining glass. I also use a 2 inch Telrad 'riser' that makes looking through it far easier ... previously I had to put my cheek on the secondary cage but with the riser, I just move my head from the eyepiece/finder and look through the Telrad - no kinked neck
But as much as I loved the Telrad, it just wasn't enough. I complemented the Telrad with an Orion RACI finder and am as happy as a porkine in you-know-what The combo of the Telrad and RACI finder is like having two levels of zoom before using the eyepiece. The Telrad gets me in rough proximity to a target, then the finder lets me see targets to around mag 8.0-ish (from my yard on a dark moonless night), then it's to the eyepiece for the final bit of hunting/scanning.
I recently broke my Telrad's combining glass and lived without a Telrad for two weeks .... aarrggghhhh the pain!! Once you get used to having one, there's no going back
. Once that was sorted, the problem was remembering to close that dew shield straight away & there laid my problem 
. It proved to be a headache remembering every time I looked through it to close it.
. 
, if you find it difficult to use get the Telarad and the cover or heater as the dewing will drive you crazy.
.
, but Bintel do one. And it's an Orion too! 
This was my first choice before I came across the cheaper Kson which only cost me $100 two years ago. See it here. Whoa lookey it's on sale for $179! 
