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Old 05-07-2008, 01:02 PM
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iceman (Mike)
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Exclamation Update on Laser Pointer Laws

Hi all

I received this from John Sarkissian, who has been making representations to the NSW Government on behalf of the members of the Central West Astronomical Society and the general amateur and professional astronomical community. They received the following email from Les Tree, Director General of the Ministry for Police in NSW.

It is posted here for the information of IceInSpace members and guests.

Quote:
Dear Mr Sarkissian

I write to inform you of the arrangements regarding the new laws on the regulation of laser pointers.

There are three components to the new laws:

1. A new offence for possession of any kind of laser pointer in a public place without a reasonable excuse under the Summary Offences Act. The penalty may be up to 2 years imprisonment or a fine of up to $5,500.


Similar to the scheme that exists for knives, people will be required to provide a lawful excuse as to why they possess a laser pointer in a public place. A person who is an amateur astronomer would have a legitimate excuse for possessing a laser pointer in a public place as would a teacher or lecturer.

2. Laser pointers will be included as a dangerous implement under the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act. Police will therefore have the power to request a person in a public place to submit to a frisk search if the police officer suspects on reasonable grounds that the person has a laser pointer in his or her custody. A police officer also has the power to confiscate the item.


Unlike other dangerous implements, the frisk search power only applies in public places; it does not apply to schools. The bolstering of police powers was necessary because of the difficulties in catching an offender for this particular crime type.

3. The Weapons Prohibition Regulation 1999 will, as from the date of commencement, list all 1 milliwat and above battery operated, hand held laser pointers as prohibited weapons. The lawful possession and use of these laser pointers will require a specific exemption or approval from the Commissioner of Police. A maximum of 14 years imprisonment penalty will apply.


This will ensure that access to higher powered laser pointers is limited to only those who are exempted from the requirement to own or possess a laser pointer or who have been approved by the Commissioner by way of a prohibited weapons permit.

Such approvals are subject to criminal and probity checks and ongoing responsibilities, including ensuring the safe storage of the item throughout the duration of the permit. Prior to this system being introduced an amnesty will be granted to people so that they can either apply for an exemption or a permit or surrender their laser pointer to police.

The Exemptions:
Persons exempt from the above requirement for a permit for possession and use of a laser pointer will include:

· A member of an approved professional or amateur astronomical organisation. This class of person is exempt from the requirement under the Act for a permit to possess or use a prohibited weapon referred to in clause 2(24) of Schedule 1 of the Act, but only for the purpose of enabling the person to take part in activities associated with astronomy.


The definition of “approved professional or amateur astronomical organisation” is still to be determined but will include:
· All astronomical organisations which are listed with the Australian Astronomical Society or the NSW Astronomical Society;
· Any astronomical organisations linked to a recognised Observatory such as the Sydney Observatory or Parkes Observatory; and
· Any other astronomical organisations approved by the Commissioner of Police.


The Amnesty:
Any person who already possesses a laser pointer to which the new law applies, and is not the holder of a permit under the Act, will be exempt from the requirement to seek a permit for until the end of the amnesty period, which will be prescribed in the Regulation, or until such a time as the person obtains a permit, whichever occurs first.

Permits:
Any person wishing to find out further information on laser pointers and how to apply for a permit may visit the NSW Police website on www.police.nsw.gov.au or contact the Firearms Registry’s Customer Service Line on Ph: 1300 362 562.


Yours sincerely,




Les Tree
Director General
Ministry for Police
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  #2  
Old 05-07-2008, 01:24 PM
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Hi Mike and All,

Based on the letter/info received by John Sarkissian reproduced in Mike's post, I'd say this is a very sensible piece of change to the legislation in the circumstances -- assuming this is the way the legislation actually pans out in the end. It could have been a lot, lot worse. Considering the spate of "attacks" on cars etc now (not just planes), we can think ourselves lucky.

Congrats to all who took the time to write, email or whatever. Well done -- this is your achievement.

Best,

Les D
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2008, 08:27 AM
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OneOfOne (Trevor)
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Yes, I think you would have to say it is a reasonable outcome bearing in mind the recent spates of inappropriate useage of lasers. It will be interesting to see how the legislation effects individuals who are not members of a club...
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  #4  
Old 06-07-2008, 08:47 AM
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h0ughy (David)
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better news than the original measures that they were to impose on us!
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  #5  
Old 09-07-2008, 08:17 PM
trav
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As both a pilot and amateur astronomer I'm very pleased with this outcome.

What's the odds we'll get iceinspace cleared as an approved professional or amateur astronomical organisation”
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  #6  
Old 09-07-2008, 08:22 PM
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GrampianStars (Rob)
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Cool Bugger

Lasers Now they're illegal I want 1 must be the 70's rebellion showing through
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  #7  
Old 11-07-2008, 12:52 PM
Rattler (John)
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Got to Join?

Boo!

Well, after all these years of not being assocatied with any one Astronomical Soceity, I might have to join so I may retain my laser. After Endeavour A.S., I did not foresee such a development.

Now, to find a good low cost, high benefit one.....

Have fun!

John

PS - Well done with the email "Sharky". JL

Last edited by Rattler; 11-07-2008 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Add PS.
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  #8  
Old 11-07-2008, 02:34 PM
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Hi Rattler & All,

Well Rattler, there is one quite nearby to you only about 7 kms drive -- Sutherland Astronomical Society, at Oyster Bay. I think it fits your criteria...


Best,

Les D
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  #9  
Old 12-07-2008, 11:39 AM
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Moonboy (Gus)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrampianStars View Post
Lasers Now they're illegal I want 1
Lol. Thats like me but i want fire works
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  #10  
Old 13-07-2008, 11:59 PM
prichens (Peter)
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Good to see a respons from the NSW Police, anyone had news from the QLD side or the remainder of the States ?
I as because I will be in the SA crossing the Simpson Desert in August and would like to be able to take mine to point out stars to the other trip members.

Peter Richens - Brisbane
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  #11  
Old 14-07-2008, 08:39 AM
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AstralTraveller (David)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prichens View Post
Good to see a respons from the NSW Police, anyone had news from the QLD side or the remainder of the States ?
I as because I will be in the SA crossing the Simpson Desert in August and would like to be able to take mine to point out stars to the other trip members.

Peter Richens - Brisbane
I wouldn't worry. Last time I was out that way coppers were pretty thin on the ground. If you did come across one they would probably have more on their mind than your laser - lost tourists, medical emergency etc.

Have a great trip.
Dave
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  #12  
Old 14-07-2008, 12:17 PM
proudy
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Does anyone know what current and proposed law is in WA?

Also it would be good if iceinspace is a recognised amateur astronomy org. because it the only one that I belong too.

I use a 30MW laser pointer, is a 1MW version of any use?
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  #13  
Old 18-07-2008, 10:29 PM
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AstroJunk (Jonathan)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prichens View Post
anyone had news from the QLD side or the remainder of the States ?
Peter Richens - Brisbane
The Qld law will be changed next year and will be along similar lines to NSW. If you really want to keep your laser, then join a club.

To be honest, you are missing out big time if you live in Brisbane and aren't a member of a club - all the clubs are brilliant.

(as General Sec of the AAQ I wouldn't be biassed ...)
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  #14  
Old 19-07-2008, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proudy View Post
Does anyone know what current and proposed law is in WA?
G'day

I am going through the process of importing a SCT laser collimator into WA from the USA. I approached the police to find out the laws here as I already have 2 other lasers. This is what I was told,

"Laser pointers have recently been reclassified as controlled weapons
however possession is not illegal".

Terry Bodenham
Senior Constable 9826
Licencing Crime Investigation Squad

What he basically said was if you pointed it at an aircraft or person it would be classified as a lethal weapon and you would be charged. Otherwise responsible use is ok.

That said it took 2 weeks to organise the form from the police (B709B) to show state approval and customs threaten to take up to 3 more weeks to give the ok once they have processed the B710 form that had to be included with my application as well as a whole lot of other stuff. You would think I was trying to import a vile of smallpox or something. Folks if you are planning to import a laser may I suggest you start well in advance.

Mark
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  #15  
Old 20-07-2008, 12:08 PM
gregl456
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I'd be interested to hear if anyone has knowledge of the transitional arrangments for Class 3x devices (e.g. 20 MW green pointers) acquired before the curtain came down.

I've been tracking this issue for a while, and the Customs Regs are clear enough. What I'd like to know is if anyone has any experience with the B709B and B710 forms. The B710 appears to cover "proposed" import and does not deal with the above scenario.
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Old 20-07-2008, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregl456 View Post
I'd be interested to hear if anyone has knowledge of the transitional arrangments for Class 3x devices (e.g. 20 MW green pointers) acquired before the curtain came down.

I've been tracking this issue for a while, and the Customs Regs are clear enough. What I'd like to know is if anyone has any experience with the B709B and B710 forms. The B710 appears to cover "proposed" import and does not deal with the above scenario.
The info I got along with the B710 form allows for this. If the item is here before approval has been given, customs will hold or seize the laser and notify the owner who will then get B390 reciept for goods or a seizure notice. The owner must then gain approval via the B709B, fill out the B710 and post the B390 along with these as well as photo ID, evidence of end use and pictures of the laser. This will apply to any laser travelling through customs after July 1 2008 no matter when it was purchased.

The rest is up to each state to regulate ownership of the lasers.

Mark
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  #17  
Old 20-07-2008, 02:28 PM
gregl456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marki View Post
The info I got along with the B710 form allows for this. If the item is here before approval has been given, customs will hold or seize the laser and notify the owner who will then get B390 reciept for goods or a seizure notice. The owner must then gain approval via the B709B, fill out the B710 and post the B390 along with these as well as photo ID, evidence of end use and pictures of the laser. This will apply to any laser travelling through customs after July 1 2008 no matter when it was purchased.

The rest is up to each state to regulate ownership of the lasers.

Mark
Many thanks, Mark.

I'm in Victoria, but the process for lasers acquired prior to 1 July is probably similar.

Still interested to hear from anyone in Victoria who's been through the process. Could be a bit soon after the change...

Meanwhile, I'd hate to get busted doing an astronomy show-and-tell in camping ground or public park somewhere

BTW, a couple of years ago the good people at Bintel were insisting that any hand-held pointers could only be sold (without a permit) if accompanied by a mount that attached to the OTA alongside the guidescope...

Last edited by gregl456; 20-07-2008 at 02:49 PM.
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  #18  
Old 21-07-2008, 02:14 PM
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iceman (Mike)
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Some more updates about the Laser Pointer laws:

Quote:
The Weapons Prohibition Amendment (Laser Pointer) Regulation 2008 was gazetted today and can be found in the NSW Government Gazette attached. See the three page entry starting on page number 7204.

My understanding is that for a society to become an approved society, they will need to contact the State Government's Firearms Registry and give them the name of their society to be put on the list of approved societies. Simple as that.

The rest is explained in the regulations gazetted today. The amnesty expires on 1 December 2008.

If you require information about the application process for a prohibited weapons permit for laser pointers or if you wish to seek advice on whether the exemption applies to you, please contact the Firearms Registry on 1300 362 562.

Last edited by iceman; 21-07-2008 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 21-07-2008, 03:23 PM
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Kal (Andrew)
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Direct link to the where the gazette ishere (in pdf form)


Weapons Prohibition Amendment (Laser Pointers)
Regulation 2008
under the
Weapons Prohibition Act 1998
1 Name of Regulation

This Regulation is the
Weapons Prohibition Amendment (Laser
Pointers) Regulation 2008.
2 Commencement
This Regulation commences on 18 July 2008.
3 Amendment of Weapons Prohibition Act 1998 No 127
Schedule 1 to the


Weapons Prohibition Act 1998 is amended by
inserting after clause 4 (7):
(8) A laser pointer, or any other similar article, that consists
of a hand-held battery-operated device with a power output
of more than 1 milliwatt, designed or adapted to emit a
laser beam and that may be used for the purposes of
aiming, targeting or pointing.
4 Amendment of Weapons Prohibition Regulation 1999
The


Weapons Prohibition Regulation 1999 is amended as set out in
Schedule 1.

Schedule 1 Amendment
(Clause 4)
Schedule 1 Persons exempt from requirement for permit
Insert after clause 7:
8 Possession and use of laser pointers
(1) A person who acquired a laser pointer before 18 July 2008 is
exempt from the requirement under the Act for a permit to
possess or use the laser pointer until 1 December 2008 or such
time as the person acquires such a permit, whichever occurs first.
(2) Despite subclause (1), a person who is (or has been within an
approved period) a member of an approved astronomical
organisation is exempt from the requirement under the Act for a
permit to possess or use a laser pointer, but only for the purpose
of enabling the person to take part in activities associated with
astronomy.
(3) In this clause:
laser pointer


means a prohibited weapon referred to in clause
4 (8) of Schedule 1 to the Act.



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Old 21-07-2008, 03:27 PM
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Kal (Andrew)
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A couple of notes - it says "hand pointed" so if the device is attached to the telescope, would this be considered a part of the telescope system, or would it still be considered "hand pointed".

Secondly, it is good to see that you don't need a permit at all if you are a member of an astronomical society. I think Victoria is different in this respect isn't it, where you still have to purchase a permit if you are in an astronomy society?
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