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Old 18-03-2019, 10:10 AM
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billdan (Bill)
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QHY to release Medium format sensor cameras

QHY has just finished testing of their new medium format cameras. These will be formally released at NEAF next month.

The QHY411 (Sony IMX411) is a 150Mpixel CMOS camera, 16bit ADC, 3.76micron pixels, 44Ke full well, Image Area 54mm x 40mm.

The QHY461 (Sony IMX461) is 100Mpixels with a smaller image area of 44mm x 33mm.

On the Sony website these sensors are available in colour or mono.

https://www.qhyccd.com/bbs/index.php?topic=6863.0

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/produ...ion/index.html
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Old 18-03-2019, 10:52 AM
glend (Glen)
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Competition is great, but I would not jump too early on these. ZWO had problems in Beta testing with the 294.
So just saying wait for the Beta testers reports.
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Old 18-03-2019, 12:19 PM
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I agree Glen, wait for the guinea pigs to test them.

Plus for us mortals we would have to win lotto first, before buying one and a scope that can provide a wide imaging circle.
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Old 18-03-2019, 06:22 PM
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Such large sensors with tiny pixels will put any lens through its paces and I honestly doubt there are many short focal length telescopes capable of providing a fully corrected circle for these sensors. Yes, FSQ has a huge corrected circle but these optics have been well tested with 9micron pixels, not 3.76micron this far from the optical axis. But who knows, maybe FSQ could well-handle these new sensors all the way to the corners?

On top of that, I totally agree with what have already been said, the cost would certainly put to a test most home-budgets and consequently relationships...
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Old 18-03-2019, 07:33 PM
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The latter at least is most likely the sensor going in the next medium format Fujifilm GFX that they keep showing in prototype form. The GFX lenses are generally highly regarded. No doubt the price will be astronomical

I hope Sony pays attention to their amp glow situation, otherwise the existence of these counts for nothing.

TBH I’m more interested in seeing if Panasonic let their full-frame sensor out of the factory in mono form...may be another few years before that happens
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Old 20-03-2019, 12:42 AM
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billdan (Bill)
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Here is the sales / data sheet on the QHY411 and photo's of the camera. I note it also supports liquid cooling as well as TEC cooling. The camera is USB3 but for faster data transfer rates there is a 10Gb Ethernet port version.


https://www.qhyccd.com/index.php?m=c...atid=138&id=49
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Old 20-03-2019, 01:53 AM
Ukastronomer (Jeremy)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slawomir View Post
Such large sensors with tiny pixels will put any lens through its paces and I honestly doubt there are many short focal length telescopes capable of providing a fully corrected circle for these sensors. Yes, FSQ has a huge corrected circle but these optics have been well tested with 9micron pixels, not 3.76micron this far from the optical axis. But who knows, maybe FSQ could well-handle these new sensors all the way to the corners?

On top of that, I totally agree with what have already been said, the cost would certainly put to a test most home-budgets and consequently relationships...


Same old argument as with cameras, there is little point in 50Mp sensors in cameras when even the best lenses can not resolve better than 30Mp
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Old 20-03-2019, 08:59 AM
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Same old argument as with cameras, there is little point in 50Mp sensors in cameras when even the best lenses can not resolve better than 30Mp
That's not true.

Sony GM lenses are rated for up to 100mp. I am sure many Zeiss lenses would as well. The better Canon L lenses too.

Wow, this is the first significant advance in astro cameras for some time. I suppose the smaller CMOS sensored cameras have been the other significant progress.

The switch to CMOS will continue no doubt.

You'd need a fast computer to handle the large files though.

Greg.

Last edited by gregbradley; 20-03-2019 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 20-03-2019, 09:28 AM
Wavytone (Nick)
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Just wish they’d make sensors with bigger pixels, not more pixels.
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Old 20-03-2019, 09:53 AM
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Just wish they’d make sensors with bigger pixels, not more pixels.
What’s the use?
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Old 20-03-2019, 03:08 PM
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I looked at sCMOS for a time, but they (and standard CMOS) still suffer from amp glow with long exposure times.

I'd rather see emCCD's at a more affordable price point....current prices are eye-watering, but the few image examples I have seen from them that are on the web, are very impressive.
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Old 20-03-2019, 06:25 PM
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Sony classifies these as “Consumer Camera” sensors...
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Old 20-03-2019, 07:49 PM
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Apparently the 150mp version will cost US$50k, made to order. So much for CMOS being significantly cheaper than CCDs...
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Old 21-03-2019, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopardalis View Post
Sony classifies these as “Consumer Camera” sensors...
Well all those big 14" Celestron SCT Rigs are considered "amateur telescopes"

Would be nice to afford to play in the big pool one day right?
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Old 30-03-2019, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavytone View Post
Just wish they’d make sensors with bigger pixels, not more pixels.
I don't think that is the trend anymore. Sensors have advanced past the original large pixels = low noise and more sensitivity.

Modern Sony mirrorless full frame sensors have read noise around 1 electron at ISO1600 these days. CCDs generally run at about 8-12 electrons typically.

So smaller pixels make more sense now.

Also these sensors are backside illuminated often which means no circuitry between pixels as that is now underneath the sensor.

Low read noise, shorter exposures with lots of subexposures seems to be the new model for astro imaging. That requires smaller pixels, lower read noise, low dark current, high QE all things these high level CMOS sensors have now.

As far as amp glow I thought that was solved. Some camera sensors have amp glow but I think these days most don't.

Per QHY amp glow is caused by slow transfer times and they use a DDRAM buffer to speed it up. Like the Sony A9 camera.

Greg.

Last edited by gregbradley; 31-03-2019 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 31-03-2019, 10:47 AM
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QHY600 now released

QHY has now released their full frame (36 x 24mm) version of these BSI Cameras.

Pixels: 60mega pixel
Pixel size : 3.76um
ADC: native 16bit
Fullwell: 49ke (196Ke with 2x2 binning) (440Ke with 3x3 binning)
Readout noise about 1 to 2.3 electrons (hi gain / lo gain)
Both monochrome/colour available
On board DDRIII memory : 2GBytes
Interface: USB3.0 + optional Giga Ethernet
Two stage TEC cooling
Electronic Shutter

https://www.qhyccd.com/index.php?m=c...catid=94&id=55

Last edited by billdan; 31-03-2019 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 31-03-2019, 11:44 AM
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Interesting specs
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Old 31-03-2019, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdan View Post
QHY has now released their full frame (36 x 24mm) version of these BSI Cameras.

Pixels: 60mega pixel
Pixel size : 3.76um
ADC: native 16bit
Fullwell: 49ke (196Ke with 2x2 binning) (440Ke with 3x3 binning)
Readout noise about 1 to 2.3 electrons (hi gain / lo gain)
Both monochrome/colour available
On board DDRIII memory : 2GBytes
Interface: USB3.0 + optional Giga Ethernet
Two stage TEC cooling
Electronic Shutter

https://www.qhyccd.com/index.php?m=c...catid=94&id=55
Wow, that is not even in a Sony mirrorless yet. I wonder if this is the next sensor in the next Sony A7Riv model yet to even be rumoured.

This 60mp sensor was released a few months ago. I think it also has a global shutter.

Its totally cutting edge.

Greg.
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Old 31-03-2019, 05:57 PM
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Hi Greg,

According to the guys on Cloudy Nights, the sensor is an IMX455AQR.


https://www.sonyrumors.co/sony-imx45...-specs-leaked/
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  #20  
Old 31-03-2019, 07:19 PM
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Does this camera have a memory card slot and a standard usb-c power supply ? Then the hassle with cables and the need for a computer during imaging is gone. And the modern DSLRs like Sony A7R or Nikon Z7 can compete well with these devices in sense of ergonomics and user friendliness.
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