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Old 02-08-2020, 10:32 AM
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Cosmic (Daniel)
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NEQ6 rebuild/belt modded

Morning team,

Hope we are all travelling well in these uncertain times. I decided to rip down the NEQ6 Pro and just regrease everything because as much as I love Easter, I hate seeing eggs in the sky. The errors in the gears were just to hard to fix, so I stripped it down, regreased and belt mod it. I was always chasing numbers on PHD 2 and with hours and hours I never really got better than 1" rms. After the complete rebuild I managed to get a rough 0.7" rms total, so things have improved quite dramatically even with a very rough PA for now. The graph looks spikey so there may even be more room for improvement as well with the meshing of the worm gear.

Question:
There is one strange thing happening from time to time, the tracking stops in RA and the star drifts away out of range quite fast as well. Maybe the belt is to tight, not sure but if anyone has an idea I'd love to hear it. All the bearings rolled very nicely and there should be no need to think they are jamming...but know knows at this stage?

Thanks for looking

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/guilding-PHD.md.jpg

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/strip-down.md.jpg
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:54 AM
sunslayr (David)
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What's the slewing like in ra? If it's smooth at max speed without skipping try putting a little pressure against it. If that's all good then it's probably not to tight. The only other thing I can think of is maybe the power supply doesn't quite cut it.
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunslayr View Post
What's the slewing like in ra? If it's smooth at max speed without skipping try putting a little pressure against it. If that's all good then it's probably not to tight. The only other thing I can think of is maybe the power supply doesn't quite cut it.
Hi David, you maybe right in the power department. I do remember the red power LED flickering when slewing once or twice, so that could be connected possibly. I use the 240v 5A power supply they usually run with, I will swap it with another one I have.

With the RA tracking I did place my hand on the counter weight bar when tuning it. Seemed to be ok in both east and west with a small load. I'm just really shy to touch the meshing screws again but I may have to worst case. It just takes so much time to get right and it's a shame you cant see the gears engaging in this process. Cheers for the reply.
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:16 PM
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Sunfish (Ray)
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If the red lights flashes constantly then the power is dropping. If you have 5a supply it is more likely the plug or the adapter causing a flicker. My plug is sensitive to how far in it is pushed , Chinese plugs tolerances are not so good, and several adapter wires have failed from overuse.

The rowan belt should not be so tight it does not have 2mm at least movement in and out and a full 360 degree test should not bind or be noisy at any point. You should just be able to turn the worm by hand with the belt on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic View Post
Morning team,

Hope we are all travelling well in these uncertain times. I decided to rip down the NEQ6 Pro and just regrease everything because as much as I love Easter, I hate seeing eggs in the sky. The errors in the gears were just to hard to fix, so I stripped it down, regreased and belt mod it. I was always chasing numbers on PHD 2 and with hours and hours I never really got better than 1" rms. After the complete rebuild I managed to get a rough 0.7" rms total, so things have improved quite dramatically even with a very rough PA for now. The graph looks spikey so there may even be more room for improvement as well with the meshing of the worm gear.

Question:
There is one strange thing happening from time to time, the tracking stops in RA and the star drifts away out of range quite fast as well. Maybe the belt is to tight, not sure but if anyone has an idea I'd love to hear it. All the bearings rolled very nicely and there should be no need to think they are jamming...but know knows at this stage?

Thanks for looking

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/guilding-PHD.md.jpg

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/strip-down.md.jpg
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:46 PM
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Maybe wait till you get the PA sorted? Looks like it's really struggling with that
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Old 02-08-2020, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
If the red lights flashes constantly then the power is dropping. If you have 5a supply it is more likely the plug or the adapter causing a flicker. My plug is sensitive to how far in it is pushed , Chinese plugs tolerances are not so good, and several adapter wires have failed from overuse.

The rowan belt should not be so tight it does not have 2mm at least movement in and out and a full 360 degree test should not bind or be noisy at any point. You should just be able to turn the worm by hand with the belt on.
Hi Ray,

Thank you for your input.

I will check the connection to the eq6, plus I will make a loop onto itself so there is no movement when slewing/tracking ect. I remember seeing someone use a built in ammeter to check drops and the draw when tuning the worm.....this bit of kit is something I may look into as well, might be handy in sorting out power issues.


Currently at work but I do remember turning the RA with pliers and the DEC by hand may explain what could also be happening here. I think we are getting close to resolving this issue. I preloaded the belt with my finger mildly applying pressure down the side of the motors just to be sure, but it sounds like there might be too much force on the belts. I will report back once I have tried those two things.

Last edited by Cosmic; 02-08-2020 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 02-08-2020, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
Maybe wait till you get the PA sorted? Looks like it's really struggling with that
Its a good point as well Chris, its fighting hard by the looks hey. I'm excited to some point because once these little things are fixed it will be even better. For my image scale, I need it "around" .6-.7 rms to have perfect stars

My orthogonality error was 11.3, so lots of room for improvement. I better get drifting
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:42 PM
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Well if you only tightened the belt by pushing with your finger that would not be too tight. I think I used a small screwdriver to get 2mm of movement. Odd however that you would need pliers to turn the worm. Is that both axes. ? I am more familiar with a Heq5 so perhaps others could say if this is usual.
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Old 02-08-2020, 09:15 PM
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I had that issue as well, turned out it was a loose grub screw. On the RA motor when I changed to the new belt gear.
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Old 05-08-2020, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
Well if you only tightened the belt by pushing with your finger that would not be too tight. I think I used a small screwdriver to get 2mm of movement. Odd however that you would need pliers to turn the worm. Is that both axes. ? I am more familiar with a Heq5 so perhaps others could say if this is usual.
Yeah Ray its pretty much both the RA and DEC axis. RA is a little looser probably could turn it if you had enough strength. I find it really strange what's happening. I loosen both a bit but no change...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolas View Post
I had that issue as well, turned out it was a loose grub screw. On the RA motor when I changed to the new belt gear.
Hi Nik, was yours fine when slewing at x9 speed ect or did you get the star drifting away on guiding? Its a little mystery atm but hopefully I can work it out...Did it again last night, its random when it happens well I don't see it coming and the phd 2 graph in DEC shoots through the roof and the star is lost. Hoping I can get it resolved sooner than later, its odd alright.
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Old 05-08-2020, 10:28 AM
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Could be both those issues. If the worm was binding as it was tight and the load heavy then the grub screw could not have enough bite on the shaft.

You should carefully read the instructions that comes with the kit, and test the mount through a full 360 on both axes unloaded during the day . You can disable the limits in the handset to allow this. If there are any noisy parts in the movement then you have binding and you need to check and adjust the worm and belt tension. So original problems that prior to belt upgrade might still be there and no fault of the upgrade.

If the kit instructions as mine do say test by turning by hand and you can not turn by hand , you may have a problem with the worm or belt tension . Take off the cover and post an image.

My rowan belt drive worked a treat and my guiding was great. At 0.6 error. But then noisy slewing after several months ( now I could hear it) alerted me that the worm needed maintenance and adjustment. Works even better now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic View Post
Yeah Ray its pretty much both the RA and DEC axis. RA is a little looser probably could turn it if you had enough strength. I find it really strange what's happening. I loosen both a bit but no change...



Hi Nik, was yours fine when slewing at x9 speed ect or did you get the star drifting away on guiding? Its a little mystery atm but hopefully I can work it out...Did it again last night, its random when it happens well I don't see it coming and the phd 2 graph in DEC shoots through the roof and the star is lost. Hoping I can get it resolved sooner than later, its odd alright.
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Old 05-08-2020, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
Could be both those issues. If the worm was binding as it was tight and the load heavy then the grub screw could not have enough bite on the shaft.

You should carefully read the instructions that comes with the kit, and test the mount through a full 360 on both axes unloaded during the day . You can disable the limits in the handset to allow this. If there are any noisy parts in the movement then you have binding and you need to check and adjust the worm and belt tension. So original problems that prior to belt upgrade might still be there and no fault of the upgrade.

If the kit instructions as mine do say test by turning by hand and you can not turn by hand , you may have a problem with the worm or belt tension . Take off the cover and post an image.

My rowan belt drive worked a treat and my guiding was great. At 0.6 error. But then noisy slewing after several months ( now I could hear it) alerted me that the worm needed maintenance and adjustment. Works even better now.
I heard tightening down the casing hard can apply added pressure to the worm engagement as well. I do make sure its tight So whilst the case is disengaged as much as it can ill try spin the worm by itself off the RA ring gear. If there is a big difference Iíll have to look at the belt/clamping pressure and meshing applied ect. From what I understand you should be able to turn the worm with your fingers from a few sources on the www. So at sidereal mode the power is too weak and it just hitting a sticking pointÖbugger. Probably explains the sawtooth spikes on the phd 2 as well. I'll have a good look tonight and hopefully come to a resolution. It has to be a tension thing, at least thatís what seems to be the most logical thing.
On a side note I am meticulous when it comes to fasteners and making sure things are tight. At.9 x speed itís all good for 360 for both RA and DEC itís only in sidereal mode it jams up every now and then. I guess at that power (.9 speed) it literally powers through any sticky points.
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Old 05-08-2020, 05:26 PM
Pepper (Steve)
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I had my ra gear slipping on the shaft.
I had the same issues as you.
I also followed the pointers posted in a different thread and changed a couple of settings. Testing after these fixes gave me the best guiding I’ve ever had.
No more sawtoothing or dropping off the scale.
I could actually leave it alone and not worry about it.
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Old 05-08-2020, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
I had my ra gear slipping on the shaft.
I had the same issues as you.
I also followed the pointers posted in a different thread and changed a couple of settings. Testing after these fixes gave me the best guiding Iíve ever had.
No more sawtoothing or dropping off the scale.
I could actually leave it alone and not worry about it.
Really? by that do you mean the clutch brass button engagement slipping?

Its amazing just when you think you have thought of it all, there's another possibility then another

I found a few little things that may help reduce the risk of this happening, I guess I wont know till I try them. Its a shame they never made a viewing window in these mounts, it would be so handy.
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Old 05-08-2020, 07:01 PM
Pepper (Steve)
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No, my 9 tooth gear on the ra motor
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Old 09-08-2020, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
No, my 9 tooth gear on the ra motor

Sorry got you



So long story short.


Measured the clearance of the new worm gear when locking it onto the shaft..looked all clear. Didn't account for the movement in the casing, which I found out was a fair bit. So both RA and DEC once adjusted began to rub and at one point whilst guiding it jammed.



Great mystery solved, thank you to all that helped me!
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Old 10-08-2020, 02:08 PM
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Great. Well done finding the problem.
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Old 12-08-2020, 08:18 AM
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Thanks Ray.

I'm happy to report that my current guiding rms is hanging around .56-.6. So the belt mod and regrease have well been worth my time and effort. Its typically doubled the performance of this mount.
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Old 12-08-2020, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic View Post

Hi Nik, was yours fine when slewing at x9 speed ect or did you get the star drifting away on guiding? Its a little mystery atm but hopefully I can work it out...Did it again last night, its random when it happens well I don't see it coming and the phd 2 graph in DEC shoots through the roof and the star is lost. Hoping I can get it resolved sooner than later, its odd alright.
It was slewing fine but the RA occasionally jumped around for no reason then settled down, eventually after a year it slewed then jammed in RA so I removed the RA motor and found the grub screw was jamming. As soon as I tightened it I am getting guided 10 minute guided subs easily.
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