#121  
Old 24-05-2016, 06:55 PM
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Atmos (Colin)
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With the frame rate that is camera can achieve at full res, it could have a fantastic solar imager too!
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  #122  
Old 25-05-2016, 01:56 AM
glend (Glen)
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Two Steps Forward, One Step Back

Had my first try at imaging with the ASI1600 tonight, and had some issues. Nothing really with camera itself but the support infrastructure and software. At first i thought i might have a dead camera but it turned out you can't run the camera through a usb3 powered hub! I was tearing my hair out trying all the different apps and even pointed it at the moon, but nothing - until i plugged the camera usb3 cable directly into my laptop. I recall that Jon R on CN reported issues with USB3 cables. I have a nice Mbeat combined usb2 and usb3 powered hub, which has been serving me well in the dslr world for years. It will not pass through the camera traffic however. Since i only have one usb3 hub on my laptop, if i plug the camera in directly then i can't plug in the guide camera and the filter wheel - both usb2 but they were working off the mbeat usb3 hub, which the camera doesn't like. On top of this, i can't get my ZWO ASI130mm guide camera to work at the same time as the ASI1600, in SGPro, which ever one starts first takes the ASI driver as its own. I am going to have to ask Sam at ZWO about that - unacceptable. Focusing and framing! Why does that have to be so hard? Love the simplicity of dslr focusing in Liveview, or BYEOS. SGPro runs a series of short subs to help focus but the lag is annoying, Sharpcap is better because you can do it in video mode. So more work to do in the next few days. Anyone have any ideas about usb3 management?
Ray better think about how your going to handle the usb3 issue.
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  #123  
Old 25-05-2016, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by glend View Post
Had my first try at imaging with the ASI1600 tonight, and had some issues. Nothing really with camera itself but the support infrastructure and software. At first i thought i might have a dead camera but it turned out you can't run the camera through a usb3 powered hub! I was tearing my hair out trying all the different apps and even pointed it at the moon, but nothing - until i plugged the camera usb3 cable directly into my laptop. I recall that Jon R on CN reported issues with USB3 cables. I have a nice Mbeat combined usb2 and usb3 powered hub, which has been serving me well in the dslr world for years. It will not pass through the camera traffic however. Since i only have one usb3 hub on my laptop, if i plug the camera in directly then i can't plug in the guide camera and the filter wheel - both usb2 but they were working off the mbeat usb3 hub, which the camera doesn't like. On top of this, i can't get my ZWO ASI130mm guide camera to work at the same time as the ASI1600, in SGPro, which ever one starts first takes the ASI driver as its own. I am going to have to ask Sam at ZWO about that - unacceptable. Focusing and framing! Why does that have to be so hard? Love the simplicity of dslr focusing in Liveview, or BYEOS. SGPro runs a series of short subs to help focus but the lag is annoying, Sharpcap is better because you can do it in video mode. So more work to do in the next few days. Anyone have any ideas about usb3 management?
Ray better think about how your going to handle the usb3 issue.
thanks for the tips Glen. Crikey, it's unheard of for anyone to have USB problems

I have a QHY guide cam and a pc with 3x USB3 ports, so I guess I should be able to connect directly from the camera to the PC for initial testing. Hopefully we can find a hub that will play with the ZWO - off to Officeworks today to see what they have. Of course, it is also possible that we will be able to ditch the guiders altogether, which would solve your ASI driver clash.

Am planning to do a minimalist changeover by unscrewing the H694, screwing on the 1600 and accepting the vignetting for now - then changing to a larger filter wheel at a later date (want to keep the 694 though for really deep imaging until the full capability of the new camera is understood). I expect that a lot of galaxy targets of interest will be available in sub image regions on the 1600 (if that works as hoped) - using less than the full 16mp will be a sensible way to keep the data load manageable with 10 sec subs.

The CN threads have been interesting, but a lot of the folks are still looking at using the thing at unity (or lower) gain with long subs - seems to me that they will just end up with a 16mp 8300 . I am itching to get some high quality long exposure data at high gain and with very short subs - that's where the totally new capability of the camera lies. And of course, a full image of the moon at super high res will be an interesting thing to try - and the planets at 100+ fps with sub-region selection.....

Last edited by Shiraz; 25-05-2016 at 07:30 AM.
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  #124  
Old 25-05-2016, 10:46 AM
glend (Glen)
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The problems seem to be solved, or at least everything is working at the same time now and I did not have to buy any more equipment.

#1, The problem with the USB connectivity. I have the camera plugged directly into my laptop USB3 connection, and it works that way. The guide camera and filter wheel are running off my mbeat 7 port powered hub, and they are USB2. As the hub USB3 cable is backward compatible to USB2, I have it plugged into the spare USB2 connection on the laptop. The filter wheel and guide camera are working through that. I had to reboot the laptop to reflect the reorganisation but its looking good.

#2, The problem with not being able to run the ASI1600 and the ASI130mm (guide camera) at the same time has been resolved. It is important to start the ASI1600 first so it can be picked in SGPro with the driver and connected there. Then the guide camera can be started and it works and does not impact on the ASI1600. I have written to Sam at ZWO about that as I think people using ZWO guide cams should know about that.

I still need to do a USB3 cable extension test to see if I can get away with the USB3 extension that I was using for the mbeat hub, if that works I can probably just use a USB2 extension off the mbeat hub to the laptop, and can return my workstation to its regular spot.
More to come.
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  #125  
Old 25-05-2016, 11:20 AM
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Glen, interesting about the camera detection, glad to hear you trail blazers are sorting it all out before I can afford one

I'd connect up the camera requiring the highest throughout to the dedicated link. Alternatively, try different ports on the hub. I've found that my Canon will only connect on certain ports, whereas other devices seem less fussy. I'm sure an electrical engineer would be able to decipher the USB hierarchy and tell us why, but the rest of us just have to go with what works.

Focusing on a dedicated cam is definitely different on my CCD I just use binning and short exposures and that works well enough. Sharpcap would seem to be the way to go with the 1600 though.
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  #126  
Old 25-05-2016, 01:29 PM
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I'm sure an electrical engineer would be able to decipher the USB hierarchy and tell us why
I'm an adjunct professor of Information Technology and Electrical Engineering and I work with a bunch of smart EEs designing products with USB interfaces and AFAIK nobody can make USB work 100% reliably, especially under Windows
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  #127  
Old 25-05-2016, 04:45 PM
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That's right USB problems are unheard of and you should write 100 times on a blackboard I will not overload my crappy USB.

Glad you sorted that. I also find I have a startup procedure that minimises problems with corrections. I always turn my computer on and let it fully boot up before I turn on my astro gear. The other way round sometimes stops gear from being recognised for reasons best known to Microsoft engineers.

Very exciting Glen. Good on you for overcoming what is likely to be the only real obstacle - getting the thing connected. That is often the first and most difficult step with new gear in my experience.

What would be good when you get the chance is a traditional image with 10 min 1x1 subs and unity gain and high gain and shorter subs of the same object. Something like the Trifid would be good as we are all familiar with what that should look like

Greg.
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  #128  
Old 25-05-2016, 05:11 PM
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Great news with sorting everything out
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  #129  
Old 25-05-2016, 07:02 PM
glend (Glen)
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Thank you guys, not everything sorted out but making progress. I did the USB3 cable extension test today and it just won't work, even though its only a 2m extension cable. I expect i will need an 'active cable', one of the powered ones. I am reorganising the obs so i can get the laptop closer. I heard back from Sam at ZWO re the driver issue i raised, i don't think he understood my question because he just asked if "i visited ASCOM".
Greg the test shot will have to wait, the cloud is back tonight and it going to rain tomorrow. However, i will be ready tomorrow night if it clears by then. With the moon out of the way all the Sag nebulas will be available.
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  #130  
Old 25-05-2016, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by glend View Post
Thank you guys, not everything sorted out but making progress. I did the USB3 cable extension test today and it just won't work, even though its only a 2m extension cable. I expect i will need an 'active cable', one of the powered ones. I am reorganising the obs so i can get the laptop closer. I heard back from Sam at ZWO re the driver issue i raised, i don't think he understood my question because he just asked if "i visited ASCOM".
Greg the test shot will have to wait, the cloud is back tonight and it going to rain tomorrow. However, i will be ready tomorrow night if it clears by then. With the moon out of the way all the Sag nebulas will be available.
I got a powered USB extension from Jaycar and it worked really well whereas non powered USB extension cables failed.

All part of the fun!

Greg.
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  #131  
Old 25-05-2016, 09:50 PM
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1. Are your powered/unpowered extension USB2 or USB3? Mixing USB2 and USB3 cables may cause issues.

2. Is the camera powered via USB or is there a separate power supply?
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  #132  
Old 25-05-2016, 10:06 PM
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Another image recently posted - Mars, 8 inch Celestron, ASI1600
http://www.astrobin.com/250254/
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  #133  
Old 25-05-2016, 10:26 PM
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Atmos (Colin)
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Another image recently posted - Mars, 8 inch Celestron, ASI1600
http://www.astrobin.com/250254/
That's pretty awesome!
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  #134  
Old 26-05-2016, 11:52 AM
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Wow !
What was the scope setup ? F#, Barlow, ROI etc ?
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  #135  
Old 26-05-2016, 01:19 PM
glend (Glen)
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Well the rain has cleared away and there is a nice dry wind to dry things out and the sky is clear blue, looks like first images tonight. The waning moon rises around 9pm, and sadly is still close enough to the Lagoon and Trifud to throw some light in the front of the scope even with a light shield, i would prefer to stay 45 degrees away. For this first light i probably would prefer something further away, even though i will be shooting Ha. I am thinking that maybe NGC 6188 would be a good choice, it is a fairly bright (+5.2) emission nebula with good gas cloud definition, and has a bright central star that can give some insight into clipping behaviour, and is high enough by 9pm to be well away from moonlight.
Other suggestions? I prefer easterly targets.
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  #136  
Old 26-05-2016, 02:54 PM
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Wow !
What was the scope setup ? F#, Barlow, ROI etc ?
don't know any more than what is given in the equipment list on astrobin - an 8 inch celestron edge with a 2.5 powermate and the 1600 camera. It is moderately impressive though.
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  #137  
Old 26-05-2016, 04:22 PM
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Well the rain has cleared away and there is a nice dry wind to dry things out and the sky is clear blue, looks like first images tonight. The waning moon rises around 9pm, and sadly is still close enough to the Lagoon and Trifud to throw some light in the front of the scope even with a light shield, i would prefer to stay 45 degrees away. For this first light i probably would prefer something further away, even though i will be shooting Ha. I am thinking that maybe NGC 6188 would be a good choice, it is a fairly bright (+5.2) emission nebula with good gas cloud definition, and has a bright central star that can give some insight into clipping behaviour, and is high enough by 9pm to be well away from moonlight.
Other suggestions? I prefer easterly targets.
NGC6188 or 6164 (the little flower nebula next to 6188) would be the go.

Vela Supernova Remnant is another IC2944 the Running Chicken is another.

Greg.
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  #138  
Old 26-05-2016, 05:22 PM
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As Greg suggested, I think NGC 6164-5 would be a great target for testing the camera. It has a relatively strong signal in Ha and there are some faint bits too.
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  #139  
Old 26-05-2016, 09:36 PM
glend (Glen)
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It looks doubtful for tonight despite clear skies earlier there is high cloud overhead now. Just my luck. Will check later but it doesn't look promising.
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  #140  
Old 27-05-2016, 01:30 PM
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don't know any more than what is given in the equipment list on astrobin - an 8 inch celestron edge with a 2.5 powermate and the 1600 camera. It is moderately impressive though.
C8 Edge is f10 native and a 2.5 barlow so f25. Explains the image size and detail. Thanks.
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