Upgrading from ED80 to 110 something?

TechnoBill · #1 13-02-2014, 01:26 PM

Hi All,
After an 18 month break from Astronomy, I have gotten the bug again and want to get back into wide field narrow band astrophotography.

I currently have a Saxon ED80 on the back of my Meade 12" Lx200R.
I just purchased a second hand QSI 583wsg with a full set of Astrodon GenII filters.
Amazingly there were two clear nights after the camera arrived and I had a ball. Spent my first ever Full nighter from 9:30 pm to 4:30am playing with settings, filters etc, and was blown away by how much more detail could see with th Ha filter as opposed to the Red filter. It really REALLY cut through the light pollution.

The focuser on my ED 80 is not good at all single speed and hard to focus. I was gonna update the focuser but am also considering getting another scope to replace it. I think a 110 is the biggest refractor I can get and still use the Meade to carry it.

I started looking at the Orion Eon 110 F/6 Apo looks like a nice kit. Then I saw the Long Perng 110 ED.. being carbon fibre it should be lighter. Then I noticed they Long Perng have a 110 F/6 Quadruplet for 2K which is my maximum budget. I assume a quadruplet will give flatter field? But I don't know anything about LP and am worried I will spend my last pennies on something and may und up with poor optics.

I did consider a newt, but I use an Orion A/O in front of the camera and I don't think it will be able to reach focus.

Any thoughts of info from someone that has a Long Perng?

TechnoBill

Larryp (Laurie) · #2 13-02-2014, 02:59 PM

Hi Bill
My experience of Long Perng ED doublets is that they have poor colour correction. The scopes are well made from a mechanical perspective, and Long Perng actually manufacture many of William Optics scopes
I have no valid opinion about the quadruplet, but the doublets would turn me off, anyway.

traveller (Bo) · #3 13-02-2014, 03:16 PM

There are a few members running North Group APOs (Chinese made). From what I can hear, they are good at colour reproduction, but have sub standard focusers.
Of course, Taks always have a special spot in many people's hearts

Bo

Larryp (Laurie) · #4 13-02-2014, 03:30 PM

If you want something really good, then Stellarvue might suit you. They are optimised for photography, and have superb colour correction. There is no local dealer that I am aware of, but the company in USA is really great to deal with.
As Bo has said-Takahashi is superb, but very expensive!

graham.hobart (Graham stevens) · #5 13-02-2014, 04:05 PM

I recently purchased an Orion ED 110mm APO because I miss my TAK so much !!
Anyway, the focuser is pretty good on it and is supposed to be viable up to 7kgs.
I use a Hotech field flattener with it with gives a really nice flat field with my QHY 8pro and it also worked well with the Canon 5 D.
The colour correction I am unsure of as I am getting blue fringing in long exposures with the OSC camera- I don't think narrow band would an issue.
All in all I am very happy with it so far and I don't think you would need to upgrade the focuser unless you wanted more automation.
Aesthetically it pleases though I am no APOD candidate so a good buy (for me)!.
Cheers
Graham

AG Hybrid (Adrian) · #6 13-02-2014, 04:52 PM

The Orion 110 ED is such a good looking scope.

TechnoBill · #7 14-02-2014, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graham.hobart

I recently purchased an Orion ED 110mm APO because I miss my TAK so much !!
Anyway, the focuser is pretty good on it and is supposed to be viable up to 7kgs.

The colour correction I am unsure of as I am getting blue fringing in long exposures with the OSC camera- I don't think narrow band would an issue.

Hi Graham, What I have red is that the faster F/6 with ED glass causes more blue fringing. Like you I am not sure how that will affect my Narrowband imaging. I don't know if the blue will affect Oii bandwidth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larryp

If you want something really good, then Stellarvue might suit you. They are optimised for photography, and have superb colour correction. There is no local dealer that I am aware of, but the company in USA is really great to deal with.
As Bo has said-Takahashi is superb, but very expensive!

Thanks Larry, I always worry about buy expensive items from OS. They only seem to have one scope within my budget and also I am trying to get something faster then F/7 for the extra wide view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traveller

There are a few members running North Group APOs (Chinese made). From what I can hear, they are good at colour reproduction, but have sub standard focusers.
Of course, Taks always have a special spot in many people's hearts

Bo

Hehe Taks ooh yeah. If I could get a 110 tak for 2k I would, I dont think I can get the focusser on my budget :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larryp

Hi Bill
My experience of Long Perng ED doublets is that they have poor colour correction. The scopes are well made from a mechanical perspective, and Long Perng actually manufacture many of William Optics scopes
I have no valid opinion about the quadruplet, but the doublets would turn me off, anyway.

In regards to Colour correction, If I am doing narrowband, would that play a big part in it? I am not sure. I dont really know what bad colour correction is. I should do more research.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AG Hybrid

The Orion 110 ED is such a good looking scope.

Mmmmmm Yes it has all the features I want. Except blue fringing :-)

I get the feeling I might just upgrade the focuser on the ED80 for now and wait. But waiting argh I have the Astro urge now :-)

Thanks All.

AG Hybrid (Adrian) · #8 14-02-2014, 10:42 AM

For narrowband imaging I believe CA is mostly irrelevant. You did mention narrowband imaging right?

TechnoBill · #9 14-02-2014, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AG Hybrid

For narrowband imaging I believe CA is mostly irrelevant. You did mention narrowband imaging right?

Yes Indeed. When I was out the other day with the new camera, I realised how much light pollution there is and after taking some Red filter shots that looked washed out, I took a Ha of the same duration and the amount of extra detail in the HA blew me away a real WOW factor.
Being new to Narrow Band can I assume that Pinpoint stars and flat field focus are more important?
Bill D

cometcatcher (Kevin) · #10 14-02-2014, 11:34 AM

I've only had one experience with Long Pernq and it was all bad! The supposed ED doublet had more CA than my cheap Skywatcher achro. That was with the 90mm F5.5. A pity because the mechanics were top class. I sent it back.

TechnoBill · #11 14-02-2014, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AG Hybrid

Luckily Paul doesn't read these kind of threads.

Who is Paul?

Well the Orions are out of stock anyway. I might just buy an Upgrade Focuser for my ED80 and hold on to the money until the Eons are back on Aus (4 to 6 weeks) I will do some more reading and try to find some reviews on 110 F/6 Refactors that may help me in my decision.

Thanks Everyone

scopey (Les) · #12 14-02-2014, 02:22 PM

Hi Bill
I would like to meet you as I live in the same city as you do.I have a engineering background as well as a astronomical interest.My #is 52414377
Yours Scopey

TechnoBill · #13 15-02-2014, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scopey

Hi Bill
I would like to meet you as I live in the same city as you do....
Yours Scopey

Sure, I am tied up this weekend but am on holidays for the rest of the week. When is a good time to call. I will actually be at your neck of the woods on Tuesday arvo.

Bill D

scopey (Les) · #14 15-02-2014, 09:46 AM

Hi Bill
Any time that's suits you .I am home most days, just ring and make shore i'm home
Yours Scopey 0417414451 P.S Tuesday is fine.

Meru (Michael) · #15 15-02-2014, 11:29 AM

Having gone through the 80ED to a 120ED and now back to a 80ED and wishing I kept my 120ED

I can say that the jump up is well worth it. I absolutely loved my 120ED, for NB imaging it worked very well (Since that's all I do really). I also have the 8300-sensor and at 900mm most nebulas fitted perfectly, and with the CCDT67 reducer I can make it work as a 600mm f/5 scope

Doesn't have a built-in flattener but even with my FW-OAG-CCD I could still manage 54mm back focus, and the $150 or so Orion flattener works beautifully with any of these scopes you're looking into.

Of course people will say the spot sizes are different and CA isnt great and built quality is ok and focuser is poor and the rest of it, but I found with a baht. mask the single speed was more than enough. Besides, for NB the CA isn't all that important. It worked fine with my setup which is similar to yours.

What I'm getting at is that it doesn't have to be an expensive triplet or quadriplet (like my old AT65EDQ) to get great images. If you're willing to look second hand then a doublet 120ED or similar with flattener will run you well under $2k with money left over for other goodies. I got my 120ED for $1.1k shipped from brisbane

As Bo said NG are good manufacturers (look up Scagman, he owns one) but any of the other synta-made scopes are pretty good. I've had 4 different skywatcher doublets and all have worked just fine (Yea I know, I used to be a scope hoarder). Goodluck!

TechnoBill · #16 15-02-2014, 10:49 PM

Thanks Meru,
Being new to Narrow Band, I was not sure how important a part colour fringing plays in the scheme of things. I can understand it would put some people off. I am just after a good sturdy setup. Got all caught up in worrying about things that might or might not affect my imaging.
I imaging if colour is off for photography you can simply correct it but for visual it could be annoying.
The only time I look though my actually view finder is if I am aligning th scope hehe. Then the cameras go in and I sit at my desk for the rest of the night :-)
But I really want to get pinpoint stars if possible. I have just ordered the upgrade focuser for the ED80. I think in the long run I may go for that orion Eon 110 F/6 because it just seems to be well built and for some reason has interested.
Unless another scope pops up on the classifieds that is. I was eying off JmLocci's Williams but that way out of my price range but also may be too heavy to put on the back of the meade.

Bill D

garymck (Gary) · #17 16-02-2014, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechnoBill

Sure, I am tied up this weekend but am on holidays for the rest of the week. When is a good time to call. I will actually be at your neck of the woods on Tuesday arvo.

Bill D

Do yourself a favour and don't look through scopey's tsa102. It will ruin you! I did..........

Cheers
Gary

TechnoBill · #18 16-02-2014, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garymck

Do yourself a favour and don't look through scopey's tsa102. It will ruin you! I did..........

Cheers
Gary

I will only go visit during the day then :-)
I agree tak's are nice but I have no budget for one. I have other hobbies that also chew up money :-)
I would love to trade in all my gear except the camera and start again by getting a Paramount mount and a tak but then again I would also love to win lotto.

Bill D

scopey (Les) · #19 16-02-2014, 04:40 PM

Hi Gary
Good to see that you love the TSA 102.

You should buy one

Yours Scopey

TechnoBill · #20 25-02-2014, 08:27 PM

Gary,
Well I got to catch up with Les and saw the Taks during the day so I was saved the temptation :-)

I have now ordered the Orion Eon 110 APO so that will totally remove any chance for me having to worry about even thinking Taks It should be here in a couple of weeks.

I also dropped in to the local Geelong Astronomical Society, so will probably continue to do that too.

TechnoBill