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Go Back   IceInSpace > Equipment > Eyepieces, Barlows and Filters

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  #21  
Old 22-11-2018, 05:25 AM
morls (Stephen)
Stars in my eyes...

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Although hese both look excellent, there are a few reasons behind my choice of the Baader. Starlight is out of my league cost-wise, at $520USD plus $180USD adapter for 180 Mak. The JMI is still over $100 above the cost of the Baader.
The JMI has around 15mm drawtube travel compared to 30mm with the Baader, making it less flexible for other scopes as I build my collection. The baader also has greater payload capacity, and although I'm not going to get close to the 6kg limit I might in the future.
The baader at minumum draw adds 90mm rear length, compared to 63mm for the JMI. This 27mm rounds out to about 83mm additional rear length with the baader over the JMI, before any focuser extension happens. So, the Baader at minumum extension makes the 180 Mak f/16.5, the JMI f/16.
I'm not sure how this difference would manifest in the real world - using an online calculator the fov with Baader and 35mm panoptic reduces from 0.88 to 0.8.
I'm still comfortable with my choice given the lower cost, larger drawtube travel and greater payload capacity of the Baader. I wasn't sure of the exact impact on focal length, so thanks for pointing that out.
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  #22  
Old 22-11-2018, 05:51 AM
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Don Pensack
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You completely misunderstood.
I wasn't talking about A Starlight Instruments rear-mount focuser at all.
I was talking about replacing the actual focusing knob with a 2-speed focus knob, leaving the back of the scope intact at whatever shorter length the visual back yields.
The JMI one, I am sorry, is no longer available:
https://tinyurl.com/ybz4q6m4
The Starlight Instruments one may or may not be available for the Mak:
http://starlightinstruments.com/stor...ory&path=37_80
Or even this:
http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_foc1.htm

If confined to the rear-mount focuser, I see nothing wrong with your original choice.
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  #23  
Old 22-11-2018, 07:09 AM
morls (Stephen)
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I see what you mean now. Yes, I considered this type of fine control focuser, but was again put off by the price - the starlight comes in at over $500AUD, and would only be of use for the Mak. I've been using a home-made adaptation for the existing knob that gives much finer control but I really miss being able to dial back and forth without any shift so I can really get things sharp. Maybe it's my technique, but I'm hoping this upgrade will take focusing on the Mak to a new level.
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  #24  
Old 24-11-2018, 08:44 PM
morls (Stephen)
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Well, a decision has been made, though not what I imagined when starting this thread. I've just ordered a 12mm Nagler type 4. I've decided to go for a premium 8mm down the track, but in the meantime my 8mm ED will suffice. The 12mm will give me 225x with 0.36* tfov, so should get a lot of use.
Thanks to everyone offering advice .

Stephen
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  #25  
Old 27-11-2018, 11:48 AM
morls (Stephen)
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Another change, due to the 12mm Nagler being discontinued. I'm getting a 16mm Nagler type V as mid/high power option, to go with my 35mm Panoptic. I suspect I'll be adding something around 12mm and then replacing my ED 8mm down the track.
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  #26  
Old 27-11-2018, 01:27 PM
Madanie7 (Brendan)
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Interesting considering you were looking for magnification originally.
What brought about the change?
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  #27  
Old 27-11-2018, 03:18 PM
morls (Stephen)
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A few things...I already have an 8mm, and although it's not top quality it does the job until I get an 8 or 9mm premium. I'm going to keep note of how many times I can use the 8mm over the next few months, as I don't want to spend premium $ on a seldom used eyepiece.
This 16mm will replace the ok-quality 15mm I have. At the moment I have a 35mm, 15mm and 8mm. I have a loose system in mind for my basic eyepiece setup regarding FOV and exit pupil: the 35mm Pan gives me 2.3mm exit pupil, 77x with 0.82. I was looking at something around half this FOV, and had narrowed my choice down to the 19mm Panoptic (1.3mm exit pupil, 145x with 0.45) or the 16mm Nagler (1.1mm exit pupil, 167x with 0.47). I decided on the Nagler because of the greater magnification and slightly larger FOV.
In the meantime, the 10% off sale at Bintel came up, and I wanted to take advantage of that. Only problem was it applied to stocked items only, and the choice of Nagler was limited to 12mm. I'd also found out the 12mm was discontinued, so I thought this might be a chance to get this before new stock ran out. I'm not terribly fussed about the order in which I get my basic set together, and 12mm seemed a good fit between 16mm and 8 or 9mm. I didn't want to go straight for the short f/l eyepieces as I'm still in two minds.

As it turned out, the 12mm wasn't available after all, and so after a phone conversation with Don at Bintel (who was very helpful! ) I was able to substitute the 16mm in the order I'd placed.
So, it looks like my eyepiece set will be 35mm Pan, 16mm Nagler, 12mm Delos, 8mm Delos (likely). This will give a progression of 0.82@77x, 0.47@167x, 0.32@225x and 0.21@338x.
Sorry for the long-winded answer, but you did ask...
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  #28  
Old 27-11-2018, 03:33 PM
Madanie7 (Brendan)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morls View Post
A few things...I already have an 8mm, and although it's not top quality it does the job until I get an 8 or 9mm premium. I'm going to keep note of how many times I can use the 8mm over the next few months, as I don't want to spend premium $ on a seldom used eyepiece.
This 16mm will replace the ok-quality 15mm I have. At the moment I have a 35mm, 15mm and 8mm. I have a loose system in mind for my basic eyepiece setup regarding FOV and exit pupil: the 35mm Pan gives me 2.3mm exit pupil, 77x with 0.82. I was looking at something around half this FOV, and had narrowed my choice down to the 19mm Panoptic (1.3mm exit pupil, 145x with 0.45) or the 16mm Nagler (1.1mm exit pupil, 167x with 0.47). I decided on the Nagler because of the greater magnification and slightly larger FOV.
In the meantime, the 10% off sale at Bintel came up, and I wanted to take advantage of that. Only problem was it applied to stocked items only, and the choice of Nagler was limited to 12mm. I'd also found out the 12mm was discontinued, so I thought this might be a chance to get this before new stock ran out. I'm not terribly fussed about the order in which I get my basic set together, and 12mm seemed a good fit between 16mm and 8 or 9mm. I didn't want to go straight for the short f/l eyepieces as I'm still in two minds.

As it turned out, the 12mm wasn't available after all, and so after a phone conversation with Don at Bintel (who was very helpful! ) I was able to substitute the 16mm in the order I'd placed.
So, it looks like my eyepiece set will be 35mm Pan, 16mm Nagler, 12mm Delos, 8mm Delos (likely). This will give a progression of 0.82@77x, 0.47@167x, 0.32@225x and 0.21@338x.
Sorry for the long-winded answer, but you did ask...
I like detailed responses. As I am fairly new to learning the ins and outs of eyepieces (you'd notice this by the questions I ask) I like to know how people think about their eyepiece collection.
I am building my eyepiece collection and I like to know that I am getting the best possible eyepieces both in quality and fit for my set up.
These eyepieces aren't cheap so I hate the thought of someone saying "you should have bought this instead".....so I ask lots of questions lol
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  #29  
Old 27-11-2018, 04:13 PM
morls (Stephen)
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I agree...I'm pretty new to all this as well. My thinking is that I'm going to be buying and selling eyepieces as I continue, so getting a premium and getting to know its character is part of the journey. If I end up selling one to fund another, at least I'm getting closer to understanding what it is I'm looking for. I much prefer a hands on approach to these things, plus I just like good gear!
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  #30  
Old 28-11-2018, 03:23 AM
astro744
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Note the eye relief of the 16 Nagler, Type 5 is tighter than the 35 Panoptic, 12 Delos & 8 Delos. Not for eyeglass wearers and even without glasses you are up close with this eyepiece. It is a very fine eyepiece though. Did you consider 14mm Delos or if you want Nagler then 13mm, Type 6 which has a bit more eye relief than the 16. See http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_page.asp?id=214

The 17 Nagler, Type 4 or 17 Delos are also good options for longer eye relief.

With regards to buying and selling until you find something you like sounds good in theory but you will find the only way to do it properly when comparing is to gave both or more alternatives at hand when you compare. Unfortunately sometimes you have to sell first to buy the alternative only to repurchase the first option again later. This is when it gets expensive!

Another thing to remember is that you will eventually end up with extra and different telescopes with different focal lengths and optical characteristics. If buying for magnification alone for one telescope you will find a completely new series of eyepiece focal lengths works better with another telescope. Also remember if you keep the apparent field of your chosen eyepieces the same then the true field of view and magnification change with the same ratio.

Whatever you choose, enjoy!

Last edited by astro744; 28-11-2018 at 11:53 AM. Reason: Typo
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  #31  
Old 28-11-2018, 08:27 AM
Kunama
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I found that the actual eye relief of the Nagler 16T5 was about 9mm, too tight for me, but a nice sharp eyepiece for those who can deal with the ER.
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  #32  
Old 28-11-2018, 08:39 AM
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anj026
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I couldn't cope with the 16mm type 5 either. Just not comfortable for more than short sessions. If it all possible try to test it yourself before buying.

I still have a 17mm type 4 which I like very much except for the weight of it.

The 13mm type 6 is a wonderful compact eyepiece and barlows well.
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  #33  
Old 28-11-2018, 09:56 AM
morls (Stephen)
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I'm reasonably confident the eye relief will be ok - I had a 13mm Nagler a while back with around 12mm eye relief, and found this very comfortable. I don't wear glasses...
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  #34  
Old 28-11-2018, 10:00 AM
morls (Stephen)
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Hi Astro,
Quote:
Originally Posted by astro744 View Post
Did you consider 14mm Delos or if you want Nagler then 13mm, Type 6 which has a bit more eye relief than the 16.!
I did consider these, and may well end up with either or even both in the future! In the meantime I wanted larger FOV, hence the 16mm.


I've been using this calculator from Tele Vue:
http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_p...CULATE#results
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  #35  
Old 30-11-2018, 09:41 PM
ausastronomer (John Bambury)
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Originally Posted by ab1963 View Post
Hi Stephen
Smart move I have this diagonal and is without any doubt in my mind the best mirror diagonal I have ever used ,Coupled with a Tak FS60Q,Nikon Nav 17mm HW the views Ive had with this configuration are no less than amazing
Hi Andrew,

I would rate the Nikon Nav 17mm HW as the single very best eyepiece I have ever used, just slightly in front of the 12.5mm Docter. I put both of those just slightly ahead of Pentax XW's, Delos and ETHOS which are also at the top of the tree.

However, notwithstanding it's a TAK, I have a heavy heart that such a wonderful eyepiece lives in a 60mm Telescope I hope it also finds focuser time in something somewhat larger.

Cheers
John B
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  #36  
Old 30-11-2018, 10:51 PM
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ab1963 (Andrew)
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Originally Posted by ausastronomer View Post
Hi Andrew,

I would rate the Nikon Nav 17mm HW as the single very best eyepiece I have ever used, just slightly in front of the 12.5mm Docter. I put both of those just slightly ahead of Pentax XW's, Delos and ETHOS which are also at the top of the tree.

However, notwithstanding it's a TAK, I have a heavy heart that such a wonderful eyepiece lives in a 60mm Telescope I hope it also finds focuser time in something somewhat larger.

Cheers
John B

Hi John
I also have the 12.5mm Docter and Swaro 25x50 w zoom with a Baader vip modular barlow and that's it apart from bino pairs and i think as you never looked through anything better than the two you have mentioned and TBH everything else i have viewed through hasn't done it for me like those two do,I prefer refractors and low power viewing and have SW BD 100 and 80mm scopes which contrary to what some might think are more than worthy to use these eyepieces with in my book.
The Docter is like looking through an 88 deg ortho with 20mm ER and the Nikons perfectly flat sharp pinpoint stars across the whole FOV and satin black backdrop cannot be bettered but comes at a price and well worth it
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  #37  
Old 01-12-2018, 08:10 AM
ausastronomer (John Bambury)
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Hi John
the Nikons perfectly flat sharp pinpoint stars across the whole FOV and satin black backdrop cannot be bettered but comes at a price and well worth it
Hi Andrew,

The contrast in the 17mm Nikon NAV HW is something quite special, that I haven't seen any other eyepiece, with the possible exception of the Zeiss orthos, quite able to equal. The Docter gets very close as well. Of course the Zeiss orthos have short eye relief and a narrow FOV, so not quite a level playing field. To be able to achieve what they have achieved in a long eye relief wide field eyepiece is a credit to the Nikon Optical Engineers. In my 14" Zambuto powered SDM the Nikon is a stunning performer.

Unfortunately with the multitude of eyepieces I already own and enjoy I can't justify the cost, as I don't observe as often as I used to.

Cheers and enjoy
John B
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  #38  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:09 AM
morls (Stephen)
Stars in my eyes...

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The 16mm Nagler arrived yesterday, and by luck the skies were clear! I only had a brief time to play last night, but all indications are that it'll work out well. The eye relief is fairly tight, but wasn't a problem. Time will tell, but I'm very happy so far.
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