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  #21  
Old 22-02-2015, 10:03 AM
100percent (Keith)
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Hi all,
Just joined your Forum. Some info regarding the Moravian G4 16000 received on 17/2/2015 '.....RBI (Residual Back Image) preflash as standard. ..... new 'EC' (Enhanced Cooling) versions of their cameras are due for launch this week. The G4-16000 will now have a -65C below ambient maximum.....'.
Thinking of buying? Perhaps you may want to wait / ask for the latest version but in all probability the existing versions may see a fall in their price? N.B the G4 16000 uses a KAF 16803 not a KAI type.

Keith
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  #22  
Old 22-02-2015, 11:02 AM
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There's a few sensors out there now that are a bit similar. The KAF16803, the KAI 11002 and the KAI 16070. The last 2 are full frame sensors around 36 x 24mm.

I think possibly the KAI16070 is a more modern natural upgrade to the venerable KAI 11002. At least the few images I have seen with it look very good. 16mp in a full frame with 52% QE and 7.4 micron pixels is a good fit for many scopes. Also file sizes will be more like 20mp.

The KAF 16803 has enormous well depth of around 100,000 electrons.
Its 36.4mm square so it places more demands on orthogonality of your system but its a great sensor. Oversampled on wider field scopes but usually that does not matter much.

Starlight Express has a H36 which is the KAI16070 for US$6050 and the H35 KAI 11002 for US$5150. They don't cool as hard but SX are known for their clean electronics and often no need for dark subtracts.

Also it can be coupled with an AO unit (as can the Moravian 16803).

I personally would prefer the higher cooling Moravian unit as high cooling can solve some potential problems and looks that little bit cleaner.
Its usually FLI's strong point.

Greg.
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  #23  
Old 23-02-2015, 07:58 PM
dradford (Don Radford)
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Hi Keith

There was a mention of enhanced cooling on the new Moravian software but no mention on their website of the new release. Where did you see the release information? I was close to ordering so will have to check this out.


Don
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  #24  
Old 04-04-2015, 01:33 AM
100percent (Keith)
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Don,
Sorry not to have replied earlier, maybe you have already made your camera purchase, this is my first return to 'ICE' in over a month. I was expecting an automated email to my inbox, got nowt so thought no interest.
The Moravian 16803 EC (Enhanced Cooling) is advertised at the Price Listings page http://shop.gxccd.com/?lang=409.
Click on the G4 16000 EC and it takes you to; -
http://shop.gxccd.com/?uid=836f4735f...duct&page=1012

There is a G4 9000 EC version.
Availability is depended upon them sourcing the special Peltier Cooling modules for the ccds which I understand they only ordered a few to start with on this initial production run.

Keith
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  #25  
Old 04-04-2015, 01:37 PM
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Seriously, they want $10K for a camera they list no specs for?!!

Who makes a decision on such a lack of information. Is it that its just so new they don't even know what the camera cools to?

Greg.
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  #26  
Old 04-04-2015, 06:30 PM
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Slawomir (Suavi)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
Seriously, they want $10K for a camera they list no specs for?!!

Who makes a decision on such a lack of information. Is it that its just so new they don't even know what the camera cools to?

Greg.
I have found some info here: http://www.gxccd.com/art?id=383&lang=409

EDIT: Just realised that the specs do not state the amount/degree of enhanced cooling, sorry.
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  #27  
Old 06-04-2015, 09:47 PM
100percent (Keith)
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Moravian G4 16000 EC (Enhanced Cooling) was available in Feb / March 2015, the additional information regarding this version is that it is supposed to cool down to -65 Deg below ambient, due to the larger Peltier module size it may be 3 inches deeper? Otherwise it will be the same spec as the G4 16000.
I have sent Moravian an email asking for more Spec info. Regarding Price well the comparison is with other cameras of similar ccd size, e.g FLI where you will be spending more.

Regards
Keith
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  #28  
Old 07-04-2015, 06:16 AM
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That is powerful cooling, on par with the Apogee enhanced cooling body and a tad more than the FLI which I think is 55C.

Greg.
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  #29  
Old 14-04-2015, 07:26 AM
100percent (Keith)
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Guys,
At last got reply from Moravian regarding the G4 16000 EC (Enhanced Cooling) camera. Appears they are still doing final testing on the product, although they mention the Price on their website it is not yet ready to dispatch to customers, hence no 'official specification' published. Hopefully won't be too long as I am very interested in ordering one.

Keith
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  #30  
Old 27-04-2015, 10:20 PM
astrobry (Erik)
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I'minterested in theis camera as well (Moravian G4-16000EC). I gathered information from a distributor in my area. He told me that this camera is still under development and is in beta testing phase. They has added an extra stage to the TEC peltier cooling, implement more precise regulation of CCD cold chamber front window heating (implemented to eliminate fogging in wet conditions) and do some several tests... When the design is complete and working well, Moravian will publish this on the website and FB. They can't say how long it takes until the design and testphase is completed. All depends on delivery of new designed PCB and TEC Peltier and other things... if I may venture a guess personally I hope that this will be available sometime in the fall - may be faster, but I doubt it... We must wait with patience
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  #31  
Old 28-04-2015, 04:51 AM
100percent (Keith)
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Erik, Thanks for the extra detail, I wonder if the Price will hold?
Looks like there are several of us interested, hope they intend to order sufficient parts to make enough G4 ECs to meet potential demand.
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  #32  
Old 30-04-2015, 05:51 AM
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Sounds like an interesting camera. It would be good for another competitor to bring out a high performing 16803 camera. QSI appear to have abandoned their 700 series for now.

Greg.
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  #33  
Old 15-12-2016, 10:08 AM
100percent (Keith)
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Moravian G4 16000EC camera availability and prices

Guys, due to the Moravian delay in the production of the Enhanced Cooling versions of the G4 camera interest probably has suffered, I put off my own decision to purchase until all sorted out.
Camera is available and I attach a link to the UK pricing I've just received (heavily affected by impact on Exchange Rate due to recent EU Referrendum vote). N.B note the need to use the external filter wheel (50mm square filters).

http://astrograph.net/epages/www_ast...-MIG4-16000MEC

Keith
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  #34  
Old 16-12-2016, 12:14 AM
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Looks like the -65C version didn't work and instead they have gone from -45C to -50C, expecting the dark current to reduce by half. A bit of salesman hype I think.
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  #35  
Old 24-12-2016, 06:43 AM
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From what I understand, QE of a CCD starts to decrease at lower temperatures - not sure about specific numerical values though. There must be a point where further lowering the temperature of a CCD becomes impractical and it starts causing more potential issues (condensation, increased power consumption, longevity etc) that outweigh benefits when astroimaging.
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  #36  
Old 28-12-2016, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slawomir View Post
From what I understand, QE of a CCD starts to decrease at lower temperatures - not sure about specific numerical values though. There must be a point where further lowering the temperature of a CCD becomes impractical and it starts causing more potential issues (condensation, increased power consumption, longevity etc) that outweigh benefits when astroimaging.
Hi Suavi,

Richard Crisp wrote a couple of articles showing the benefits of very deep cooling. Can't find them on his web site any more but I have backup copies

The only problem is that we can't afford cameras that can get to -75C in Brisbane summer temps.

Cheers,
Rick.
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  #37  
Old 29-12-2016, 06:26 AM
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Slawomir (Suavi)
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Originally Posted by RickS View Post
Hi Suavi,

Richard Crisp wrote a couple of articles showing the benefits of very deep cooling. Can't find them on his web site any more but I have backup copies

The only problem is that we can't afford cameras that can get to -75C in Brisbane summer temps.

Cheers,
Rick.
Yes, given the astronomical cost of such camera buying one for taking pretty astro pictures would certainly be his/her worst ever investment!
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