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  #1  
Old 13-09-2017, 02:58 PM
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Merlin66 (Ken)
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Full Frame, Aps-C etc.

It's cloudy.....
Why is it, twenty years after the demise of the SLR and 35mm film that we keep talking about full frame and various lens equivalents back to the 80's?
In AP Full frame etc. doesn't mean a thing!
Its the physical size (and pixel size) that makes the difference.....
I think there are amateurs who have never seen 35mm film......
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  #2  
Old 13-09-2017, 03:03 PM
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blink138 (Pat)
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haha entirley possible ken!
pat
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  #3  
Old 13-09-2017, 11:26 PM
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Atmos (Colin)
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I've only seen 35mm film because my father had a Pentax K1000 when I was growing up! I'm sub-30
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  #4  
Old 14-09-2017, 12:26 AM
glend (Glen)
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I still have all my Pentax KX film equipment, and my dad's old Argus, but honestly don't know where i could buy film today. It would be easy to stick the Pentax on one of my scopes, but i threw out all my developing and printing equipment many years ago. It was a sad day when i put my printer and filters in the recycle bin, but it had no value to anyone in the digital age, and my wife said it had to go. I miss that processing, the hands on nature of the dark room, of creating an image on paper, the control over exposure, the ability to burn in darker areas and hold back over exposing. It was more of an art form than its digitial replacement.
As to the continuing use of film jargon in today's cameras, let us have something to remind us of past.
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  #5  
Old 14-09-2017, 01:43 AM
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skysurfer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin66 View Post
It's cloudy.....
Why is it, twenty years after the demise of the SLR and 35mm film that we keep talking about full frame and various lens equivalents back to the 80's?
In AP Full frame etc. doesn't mean a thing!
Its the physical size (and pixel size) that makes the difference.....
I think there are amateurs who have never seen 35mm film......
The (D)SLR is alive and kicking ! The 35mm film is indeed dead.
And Full Frame means much ! Same sensor size as a 35mm film negative (24x36mm), the greater the sensor, the better suitable for AP, but the 14.8x22.2mm APS-C is still well suited for AP.

Completely different from the phonecam, even an iPhone X (the best phonecam there is) with its matchhead sized sensor boasting f/1.8 is still very tiny and captures only 1/15 as much light compared with an APS-C camera with a 24mm f/2 lens.

glend: If you buy a new Pentax, you can keep all your lenses, and the K1 has a very good reputation as a fullframe.
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  #6  
Old 14-09-2017, 03:01 PM
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Merlin66 (Ken)
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OK, a 24 x 36mm is the same coverage as the old historic "35mm Full Frame"
but it really doesn't mean much - there's no 35mm film to compare it with and all the current generation of digital cameras use different lenses etc.
I contend for astronomy, there is no such thing as a 35mm Full frame, just a large 24 x 36mm sensor and I don't think "crop factors" are useful at all. ;-)
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  #7  
Old 14-09-2017, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin66 View Post
It's cloudy.....
Why is it, twenty years after the demise of the SLR and 35mm film that we keep talking about full frame and various lens equivalents back to the 80's?
In AP Full frame etc. doesn't mean a thing!
Its the physical size (and pixel size) that makes the difference.....
I think there are amateurs who have never seen 35mm film......
Hi Ken,

Film may* have had it's demise, but Full-Format: the physical size you mentioned - 36mm x 24mm still prevails as a useful reference, not to mention being supported by some wonderful cameras, which help eek out that last bit of performance for photographers or even astrophotographers.

As for why we are still talking about lens equivalents back to a Full Frame reference, well I would say that it is useful for people, who for many years have only had FF to deal with, to appreciate what an equivalent field of view would look like through their new APS-C, APS-H, Micro 4/3, One Inch Sensor, etc interchangeable lens or even fixed lens cameras, which have an even greater variety of sensor sizes). Equivalent lens specs are all used in marketing, usually without too much care, but it's some sort of start.

Best
JA

*I'm not in to it, since moving to digital many years ago, but there is some sort of resurgence amongst some aficionados and nostalgic types. I recently read where film plants were being opened to cater for demand, just like vinyl records. BTW: Not wanting to start a Analogue V Digital Audio discussion

Last edited by JA; 14-09-2017 at 03:44 PM.
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  #8  
Old 14-09-2017, 03:50 PM
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Merlin66 (Ken)
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JA,
I understand....
I just think there's at least a generation of amateurs coming behind us who have really no idea what we're talking about....
What will we call the next generation of AP sensors - 30 x 45mm??????
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  #9  
Old 14-09-2017, 08:40 PM
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alocky (Andrew lockwood)
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Not to mentioned my sadly neglected RB67, and the joys of 120 roll. So how can those piddly 35mm things claim to be full frame when my 60x70mm is 'medium'?
As they say in Tassie - it's all relative...
Cheers
Andrew.
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  #10  
Old 14-09-2017, 08:49 PM
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SimmoW (SIMON)
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Ha, yes some wouldnt know what it is. Being 'sub - 50' I grew up with film and first learned SLR photography with my K1000. And remember all those tiny weird film formats like 110? And those disc thingies?

IMHO all you folks who did AP in the bad old days of film are ABSOLUTE LEGENDS! It must've been so difficult. When cropping meant cutting!
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  #11  
Old 15-09-2017, 09:14 AM
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ZeroID (Brent)
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Cropping was done at the enlarger. And film has made a bit of a resurgence recently. I can remember racking the enlarger all the way up it's back rail to get the subject to fill the sheet. And having several prime lenses cos Telephotos were both expensive and somewhat poor compromised optical units.
A mate and myself setup up a temp controlled room to process the first CibaChrome prints with high colour and development times in stop watch calculated seconds. No idea what his power bill was like as we had the room at about 30* to keep the chemicals at the right temperature.
Fun times ....
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  #12  
Old 15-09-2017, 09:56 AM
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sil (Steve)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin66 View Post
OK, a 24 x 36mm is the same coverage as the old historic "35mm Full Frame"
but it really doesn't mean much - there's no 35mm film to compare it with and all the current generation of digital cameras use different lenses etc.
I contend for astronomy, there is no such thing as a 35mm Full frame, just a large 24 x 36mm sensor and I don't think "crop factors" are useful at all. ;-)
yep totally useless, maybe pixel size is useful but not to the plebs. besides you're mostly stacking and processing so the end result is whats important.

Too many idiots pick up on a little detail and extrapolate that to a rule, 5-10yr ago nobody would bother with a full frame dslr as a first camera now its required for some stupid reason because its better. better for who and for what they can't answer, their brains stop at the word better. just like many people claim astrophotos can ONLY be captured using a Canon camera, the stupidity lingers.
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  #13  
Old 15-09-2017, 10:24 AM
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Octane (Humayun)
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This was about 5-10 years ago when primarily astro capture software support was available for Canon DSLRs. Nowadays, it's a different playing field with most software supporting pretty much everything.

H

Quote:
Originally Posted by sil View Post
just like many people claim astrophotos can ONLY be captured using a Canon camera, the stupidity lingers.
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  #14  
Old 15-09-2017, 10:43 AM
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bojan
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Even worse is so called "crop factor" used to "convert" the focal length of the lens..
Magic way for your (lens) to suddenly become 1.6x (or whatever number) longer
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